Do you think reason will ever get a better sampler?

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Creativemind
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Post 22 Dec 2018

AzureEyes wrote:
27 Jul 2018
No because people cry too much when Propellerhead add new Native Devices!


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Only if they do so over adding features to the core software. In 10 they should have scrapped Humana, Pangea and Klang, forgot about Radical Piano too and just gave us SOME workflow enhancements.
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Creativemind
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Post 22 Dec 2018

riemac wrote:
27 Jul 2018
Loque wrote:
27 Jul 2018
The Samplers in Reason need switchable time stretching, everything else is luxury... Or what do you really need that Abletons Sampler has?
What is really missing with the Reason samplers is the possibility to modulate or automate the start position of the samples for example with an random LFO. You can do this in Abletons sampler. This is a very nice feature to simulate an analog behavior of an analog oscillator.

There is a very good video for this example (it begins at 36:00):

https://youtu.be/iCdD7SabVb8
If you right click a video on You Tube, you can copy the Video URL at current time which will allow you paste / post the video on here and it'll play straight at that point in the video.
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guitfnky
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Post 22 Dec 2018

Creativemind wrote:
22 Dec 2018
AzureEyes wrote:
27 Jul 2018
No because people cry too much when Propellerhead add new Native Devices!


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Only if they do so over adding features to the core software. In 10 they should have scrapped Humana, Pangea and Klang, forgot about Radical Piano too and just gave us SOME workflow enhancements.
noooooooo! I upgraded to 10 *because of* Humana, Pangea, and Klang. Europa and Grain are (very) nice-to-haves, which I do get a bit of use out of, but the sampled instruments are on just about everything I do now.

but yeah, really hoping v11 gets some major workflow upgrades. 😬

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Oquasec
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Post 22 Dec 2018

There's refills for that but having new native devices in Reason was at 129$ for plugins that would have otherwise been 500$ separately.
There are even rack extensions in this shit that are built in there now.

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buddard
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Post 22 Dec 2018

Creativemind wrote:
22 Dec 2018
AzureEyes wrote:
27 Jul 2018
No because people cry too much when Propellerhead add new Native Devices!


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Only if they do so over adding features to the core software. In 10 they should have scrapped Humana, Pangea and Klang, forgot about Radical Piano too and just gave us SOME workflow enhancements.
Humana, Pangea and Klang were all implemented by third parties, and Radical Piano already existed, so I can’t see how excluding those would have given us more core features in R10?

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selig
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Post 22 Dec 2018

buddard wrote:
22 Dec 2018
Creativemind wrote:
22 Dec 2018


Only if they do so over adding features to the core software. In 10 they should have scrapped Humana, Pangea and Klang, forgot about Radical Piano too and just gave us SOME workflow enhancements.
Humana, Pangea and Klang were all implemented by third parties, and Radical Piano already existed, so I can’t see how excluding those would have given us more core features in R10?
Not that I have a horse in this race, but those third parties did not work for free, and that still qualifies as resources that are not available for other development, right?
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buddard
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Post 22 Dec 2018

selig wrote:
22 Dec 2018
buddard wrote:
22 Dec 2018


Humana, Pangea and Klang were all implemented by third parties, and Radical Piano already existed, so I can’t see how excluding those would have given us more core features in R10?
Not that I have a horse in this race, but those third parties did not work for free, and that still qualifies as resources that are not available for other development, right?
Yes, you’re right about that, of course!

My point was just that it wasn’t like the developers at PH were all busy working on the IDT’s instead of Reason. :)

And although the IDTs were not free to include, I don’t think they were super expensive either since I believe they were also based on existing content (?). But who knows?

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xylyx
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Post 22 Dec 2018

As a Noiiz subscriber, I have a lot of samples now available to me and I would love to see the Reason devices have additional slicing functionality built in. In Studio One v4, you can hold down the shift key while dragging a sample loop from Loopcloud, then drop it onto either Sample One XT or Impact XT and have it auto sliced, which is a huge time saver from what is currently possible in Reason.

I own the full version of Kontakt and even this doesn't facilitate slicing in as easy a way as the S1 options.

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bitley
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Post 22 Dec 2018

You might need a really good library.,, ;)

Yonatan
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Post 23 Dec 2018

If they update the NNXT I really hope they where brave enough to do betterments to the UI as the tinyness and hard-to-see interface is...not inspiring. Quite a few devices could go with an upfreshment, but most important is the devices like samplers that one need to work a lot with if doing some serious sampling work. And on top of that, a new Combinator 2.0 (or rather a new one if that is to prefer). Imagine how fun it would be to work with an upgraded NNXT as well as a new Combinator. Wow factor for sure! And would boost the Reason platform.

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bitley
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Post 23 Dec 2018

Here's how to modulate sample start with NNXT, many of my libraries does this:

Select all multisamples and copy them to a new layer. While selected, don't play on the keys just yet but edit the sample start, increase attack to eliminate clicks and change other things too if you want more variation. Panning can be edited as well for instance, or filter parameters.

Now copy and paste to like 8 layers totally and perform similar edits on each new layer.

When ready, select all layers and set them to ALT.

Tadaa!

Now, you will still always be playing one of the layers at a time when pressing one key.

When pressing several keys each note will randomly pick any of the eight layers.

If you play one note repeatedly you can see that this jumps wildly across all the layers.

I also took this to further extents by doing percussion kits like this too, where each layer has different timbales, congas, snaps, bells or what not.

Those of you who have one of my CMI refills can check the patch "En Evighetsmaskin" ("A perpetum mobile") which played together with an arpeggiator (for instance) will produce eternally changing percussion loops.

I did a JX8P layout which mimics the original synth very well, since the 8P cyclically goes from voice 1-6 and then over again. So a chord with three notes on the 8P uses voice 1, 2 and 3 and the next time the chord is played it uses voices 2, 3 and 4 and so on.

Played in a funk style or so voices will just about play randomly so the ALT setting really makes the NNXT come to life.

For analog emulation this effectively kills any VST or RE synth emulator because if you set detuning to different amounts you will get the same kind of really animated and living synth sound as on a Jupiter 8, OB Xpander or CS80.

RobC
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Post 23 Dec 2018

Yes, of course it will!

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Oquasec
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Post 23 Dec 2018

Well propellerhead could just keep bundling rack extensions for 129$.
You know, the stuff you'd never see in the rig bundles maybe?

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miscend
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Post 23 Dec 2018

Developing an advanced sampler will take development time away from Reason. You can always just get Halion, Kontakt or Tal Sampler.

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bitley
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Post 23 Dec 2018

What would be fun though would be real virtualizations of Akai S-612, S-700, S-900, S-1000 & E-mu EIII, Emax and E4 Platinum, Roland S-550 and 770 with monitors, and so on. With the right graphic design. Add some synths like MKS-50 with PG-300 & MKS-80 with MPG. Those are quite cool rack instruments that would look good in the rack.

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AttenuationHz
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Post 23 Dec 2018

There's a lot of devices in Reason already capable of doing what Simpler/Sampler can do and more.

ReDrum has sample start and end with the length parameter, you just connect a CV to the back of a combi to modulate the start and or length positions, plenty of LFO's on native devices and you are not just limited to an LFO you could connect an envelope such as Pulsars to trigger when the sample triggers then Modulate any level CV.

Dr Octo Rex allows for slicing and you can export a rex file straight from the sequencer it also as a lot of parameters available for through CV in a Combinator or Mix Channel. There is also the Nurse Rex player module on Kong.

Grain is able to do so much more than Simpler and Sample combined.
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RobC
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Post 23 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
23 Dec 2018
There's a lot of devices in Reason already capable of doing what Simpler/Sampler can do and more.

ReDrum has sample start and end with the length parameter, you just connect a CV to the back of a combi to modulate the start and or length positions, plenty of LFO's on native devices and you are not just limited to an LFO you could connect an envelope such as Pulsars to trigger when the sample triggers then Modulate any level CV.

Dr Octo Rex allows for slicing and you can export a rex file straight from the sequencer it also as a lot of parameters available for through CV in a Combinator or Mix Channel. There is also the Nurse Rex player module on Kong.

Grain is able to do so much more than Simpler and Sample combined.
Oh right, Grain already is sort of a sampler. xD I forgot that. Or a re-sampler, but still.

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Creativemind
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Post 24 Dec 2018

buddard wrote:
22 Dec 2018
Creativemind wrote:
22 Dec 2018


Only if they do so over adding features to the core software. In 10 they should have scrapped Humana, Pangea and Klang, forgot about Radical Piano too and just gave us SOME workflow enhancements.
Humana, Pangea and Klang were all implemented by third parties, and Radical Piano already existed, so I can’t see how excluding those would have given us more core features in R10?
Because they were included in R10 instead of features?
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AzureEyes
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Post 24 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:There's a lot of devices in Reason already capable of doing what Simpler/Sampler can do and more.

ReDrum has sample start and end with the length parameter, you just connect a CV to the back of a combi to modulate the start and or length positions, plenty of LFO's on native devices and you are not just limited to an LFO you could connect an envelope such as Pulsars to trigger when the sample triggers then Modulate any level CV.

Dr Octo Rex allows for slicing and you can export a rex file straight from the sequencer it also as a lot of parameters available for through CV in a Combinator or Mix Channel. There is also the Nurse Rex player module on Kong.

Grain is able to do so much more than Simpler and Sample combined.
Not really! Simpler can do a lot of granular stuff and none of the devices or instruments can go as deep as Sampler! There's so much more you can do. Grain can do a few things Simpler can't but this is just a misleading comment altogether! Sampler can feed FM into samples, zoom into the waveform and has a lot of crazy stuff you can do in the map editor! I'd advise you to do some research before spreading false information! Grain is Simpler and Sampler combined?! What?! Obviously you have no clue or experience with Live to say such a ridiculous thing! Grain is a Granular synth! Sampler is a powerful sampler and Simpler still has a Slice mode and a one shot mode for (drums) as well as the warping that's implemented from Live that can do some crazy Granular stuff too. All are good tools for different things! [emoji3] Sure there's a lot of tools in Reason but there's a lot of stuff they packed into these instruments that is pretty unique and isn't available to Reason users at all! Same as Reason's tools!


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AttenuationHz
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Post 24 Dec 2018

AzureEyes wrote:
24 Dec 2018
AttenuationHz wrote:There's a lot of devices in Reason already capable of doing what Simpler/Sampler can do and more.

ReDrum has sample start and end with the length parameter, you just connect a CV to the back of a combi to modulate the start and or length positions, plenty of LFO's on native devices and you are not just limited to an LFO you could connect an envelope such as Pulsars to trigger when the sample triggers then Modulate any level CV.

Dr Octo Rex allows for slicing and you can export a rex file straight from the sequencer it also as a lot of parameters available for through CV in a Combinator or Mix Channel. There is also the Nurse Rex player module on Kong.

Grain is able to do so much more than Simpler and Sample combined.
Not really! Simpler can do a lot of granular stuff and none of the devices or instruments can go as deep as Sampler! There's so much more you can do. Grain can do a few things Simpler can't but this is just a misleading comment altogether! Sampler can feed FM into samples, zoom into the waveform and has a lot of crazy stuff you can do in the map editor! I'd advise you to do some research before spreading false information! Grain is Simpler and Sampler combined?! What?! Obviously you have no clue or experience with Live to say such a ridiculous thing! Grain is a Granular synth! Sampler is a powerful sampler and Simpler still has a Slice mode and a one shot mode for (drums) as well as the warping that's implemented from Live that can do some crazy Granular stuff too. All are good tools for different things! [emoji3] Sure there's a lot of tools in Reason but there's a lot of stuff they packed into these instruments that is pretty unique and isn't available to Reason users at all! Same as Reason's tools!


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Well what I said was grain can do so much more and its not just a granular synth. Reason will go as deep as you can bring it. I'm not going to get into it with you but Reason can feed FM into anything it pleases you just need to think about how to accomplish the same thing you would in other software, It might not be obvious how do something, but rest assured the tools are there to accomplish the desired results!

Sounds like you're just speculating, you have no clue of the experience I have with anything!
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AzureEyes
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Post 24 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
AzureEyes wrote:
24 Dec 2018

Not really! Simpler can do a lot of granular stuff and none of the devices or instruments can go as deep as Sampler! There's so much more you can do. Grain can do a few things Simpler can't but this is just a misleading comment altogether! Sampler can feed FM into samples, zoom into the waveform and has a lot of crazy stuff you can do in the map editor! I'd advise you to do some research before spreading false information! Grain is Simpler and Sampler combined?! What?! Obviously you have no clue or experience with Live to say such a ridiculous thing! Grain is a Granular synth! Sampler is a powerful sampler and Simpler still has a Slice mode and a one shot mode for (drums) as well as the warping that's implemented from Live that can do some crazy Granular stuff too. All are good tools for different things! [emoji3] Sure there's a lot of tools in Reason but there's a lot of stuff they packed into these instruments that is pretty unique and isn't available to Reason users at all! Same as Reason's tools!


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You said that Grain is Simpler and Sampler combined tho! Judging by your logic it kind of sounds like you have no idea what your going on about! Grain is a synth with sample loading and Simpler and Sampler are samplers!

Oh really feed FM into a sample in NNXT/NN19? You can't do it like Sampler does!

I know what both can do I've been using both for years! How is that relevant to how Grain is Simpler and Sampler combined?! I've honestly never heard something so misleading!

Reason can go as deep as you let it? So can Live! They both have their strengths and weaknesses!

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AzureEyes
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Post 24 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
You said that Grain is Simpler and Sampler combined tho! Judging by your logic it kind of sounds like you have no idea what your going on about! Grain is a synth with sample loading and Simpler and Sampler are samplers!

Oh really feed FM into a sample in NNXT/NN19? You can't do it like Sampler does!

I know what both can do I've been using both for years! How is that relevant to how Grain is Simpler and Sampler combined?! I've honestly never heard something so misleading!

Reason can go as deep as you let it? So can Live! They both have their strengths and weaknesses!




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Comparing a synth to Simpler and Sampler which are Samplers is kind of obtuse!

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AttenuationHz
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Post 24 Dec 2018

Not being able to quote someone properly is obtuse and Ironically you again read what I said wrong the keyword being: more.

It's a question of what part of the sample do I want to inject Frequency Modulation into with Reason! We obviously don't play in the same sandbox but don't get upset over it.

Have yourself a good day, bye.
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scratchnsnifff
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Post 25 Dec 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
27 Jul 2018
Loque wrote:
27 Jul 2018
The Samplers in Reason need switchable time stretching, everything else is luxury... Or what do you really need that Abletons Sampler has?
I disagree. I think time stretching in a sampler is a luxury, but I don't negate your point of wanting it in a modern sampler update inside of Reason. However, proper looping, modulations of start point, end point, loop point, loop start/end help make a sampler worth using. in addition, a mod matrix is necessary. I envision the "NN-Xtra" as being a sampler with the flexibility of an Emu Ultra + Ensoniq ASR 10 combined with the ability to degrade and/or enhance the sound in various ways. Real-Time resampling (both sample rate resampling and recording it's own outputs resampling) perhaps some sort of exciter/harmonic generator like the licensed Aphex program in the Emu Ultra series, the ability to load Akai, Roland, Emu, and Ensoniq sound libraries with the programs mostly intact.

These are the types of things that keep me holding on to samplers that are 20 to 30 years old....they STILL do more than the samplers in Reason. I'm of the opinion that PH assumes that none of us sample anymore and that the devices are there only to ensure backwards-compatibility. I may not sample like a hip-hop producer....I'm not sampling records and chopping them up.... however I DO sample 75% of every sound in all of my songs. For the samples that I am taking, every monosynth sound is one single sample taken and played across the entire keyboard, every polysynth sound is a chord sampled onto one key, with the other chords needed in the track sampled into new layers/voices/programs, the drums may be created in the computer....but then they get played back out (through analog processing) into one of my drum machines as new samples and then are recorded back into Reason as both MIDI (for recall and collaborations) and audio to get the specific sound I'm after.

I may be an outlier or atypical user of Reason because I use the virtual rack with a physical rack inextricably linked to create my own unique sound, but I would be willing to consider leaving my samplers alone and creating an album entirely inside the box if I had a sampler that did what I really need it to do. I own a VST sampler called Morgana. It is a really interesting and fun recreation of the Ensoniq Mirage, and while it is not at all an accurate clone, it has a sound to it. I'd like to see PH create a sampler that has the OPTION of having it's own unique sonic imprint instead of a plain-jane sample playback device.
To me, that sounds like quite the workflow you got going on there XD I just use scales and chords or bounce in place. And if I want any sample manipulation I just use nn19 or xt

Lately grain has covered all my sample manipulation needs. But I’m more of a synth programmer kind of person. For some reason sample manipulation had never struck the same chord with my brain, as it has with many others
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avasopht
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Post 25 Dec 2018

Undistraction wrote:
21 Sep 2018
but this will mean keeping RE performance (and therefore SDK features) limited in scope to cope with mobile processors
Not true at all in any part of it. You write normal coding code for REs minus processor-specific optimisations.
Undistraction wrote:
21 Sep 2018
.... I mean they can't even get Reason performance sorted on Mac desktops at the moment.
Got nothing to do with RE or mobile processors at all. That is strictly down to highly complex Mac only specifics that have absolutely nothing to do with any individual application being inherently wrong. The nature of an OS dramatically changing any part of its behaviour is that it can result in unexpected changes in how applications behave, especially ones that are performance critical.
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