Do you think reason will ever get a better sampler?

[jam-s]

I highly doubt that it can do all of the nice things NN-XT can do (like groups, round robins, etc.).

Why d'you say that?

The interface from that blurry browser device preview does not look like it's capable of complex multi sample assignment functionality like in NN-XT but rather like their take on serato sample which is basically using a single sample and chopping it up into bits.

[AnotherMathias]

The interface from that blurry browser device preview does not look like it's capable of complex multi sample assignment functionality like in NN-XT but rather like their take on serato sample which is basically using a single sample and chopping it up into bits.

I agree (sadly). The blurry image, plus the hires bottom quarter leak, allows us to do some semi-educated guesses.

There’s still a possibility that those two areas on top, with the red selectors, hide a big tabbed UI, and what we see in the leak is only part of the interface.

It seems that perhaps the stuff we can see is on the tab for editing a single sample, out of many tabs. That would explain why there are two FX sends, only a single insert FX unit (set to “noise” in the picture), only a basic LFO and no MSEG.
Further FX, LFOs, EGs, and key mapping, might be found in a master tab.

Purely guessing, of course.

[kbard]

And sysex files too no?

Why? Genuinely curious!

I use sysex to load up specific hardware configurations etc. but I have never needed to load sysex. I've never seen anyone sharing patches in hardware or software sampler either. I understand point of having presets or banks in such format but not in a sampler. Hence my question.

[riemac]

The interface from that blurry browser device preview does not look like it's capable of complex multi sample assignment functionality like in NN-XT but rather like their take on serato sample which is basically using a single sample and chopping it up into bits.

I agree (sadly). The blurry image, plus the hires bottom quarter leak, allows us to do some semi-educated guesses.

There’s still a possibility that those two areas on top, with the red selectors, hide a big tabbed UI, and what we see in the leak is only part of the interface.

It seems that perhaps the stuff we can see is on the tab for editing a single sample, out of many tabs. That would explain why there are two FX sends, only a single insert FX unit (set to “noise” in the picture), only a basic LFO and no MSEG.
Further FX, LFOs, EGs, and key mapping, might be found in a master tab.

Purely guessing, of course.

I think you are right with the tabs and that you can switch between more editing windows. And there seems to be a little keyboard display maybe for key assignment.

[miscend]

Inevitably some people are going to be left feeling quite disappointed when we get the new sampler and it doesn't do x, y and z. If you want a powerful sampler just get Kontakt, Halion or even Falcon. Reason studios would never ever in any scenario be able to even compete with those.

Currently in Reason up to v11 there is no intuitive way to chop samples and I think this was by design so as not to cannibalise Recycle sales. Which kind of gives us an insight into their way of thinking when implementing features! I think the new sampler will offer a few concessions like an easy way to chop samples but it's not going to be a full blown sampling powerhouse like Steinberg's Halion.

[Creativemind]

And sysex files too no?

Why? Genuinely curious!

I use sysex to load up specific hardware configurations etc. but I have never needed to load sysex. I've never seen anyone sharing patches in hardware or software sampler either. I understand point of having presets or banks in such format but not in a sampler. Hence my question.

So you can load up patches like Lately Bass etc?

[jam-s]

Why? Genuinely curious!

I use sysex to load up specific hardware configurations etc. but I have never needed to load sysex. I've never seen anyone sharing patches in hardware or software sampler either. I understand point of having presets or banks in such format but not in a sampler. Hence my question.

So you can load up patches like Lately Bass etc?

Going by this suggestion, I think you don't know what Sysex files are. But I guess you can work on this.

[Creativemind]

So you can load up patches like Lately Bass etc?

Going by this suggestion, I think you don't know what Sysex files are. But I guess you can work on this.

Not especially really no but I was thinking, FM8 loads them you see.

[jaeproduced]

Inevitably some people are going to be left feeling quite disappointed when we get the new sampler and it doesn't do x, y and z. If you want a powerful sampler just get Kontakt, Halion or even Falcon. Reason studios would never ever in any scenario be able to even compete with those.

Currently in Reason up to v11 there is no intuitive way to chop samples and I think this was by design so as not to cannibalise Recycle sales. Which kind of gives us an insight into their way of thinking when implementing features! I think the new sampler will offer a few concessions like an easy way to chop samples but it's not going to be a full blown sampling powerhouse like Steinberg's Halion.

Still No key detection or key shift function which is were Serato Sample stand out...

[miscend]

Inevitably some people are going to be left feeling quite disappointed when we get the new sampler and it doesn't do x, y and z. If you want a powerful sampler just get Kontakt, Halion or even Falcon. Reason studios would never ever in any scenario be able to even compete with those.

Currently in Reason up to v11 there is no intuitive way to chop samples and I think this was by design so as not to cannibalise Recycle sales. Which kind of gives us an insight into their way of thinking when implementing features! I think the new sampler will offer a few concessions like an easy way to chop samples but it's not going to be a full blown sampling powerhouse like Steinberg's Halion.

Still No key detection or key shift function which is were Serato Sample stand out...

Maybe they dont have an algorithm that works. The problem with key detection is that there is no software out there that is100% accurate. Sometimes Serato Sample gets it wrong and I resort to making adjustments by ear. If I take a music loop I will often get a different key reported if I feed it to Serato Sample, Hornet Songkey or Melodyne.

[QVprod]

Going by this suggestion, I think you don't know what Sysex files are. But I guess you can work on this.

Not especially really no but I was thinking, FM8 loads them you see.

FM8 isn’t a sampler. It’s a recreation of a DX7 (plus extras). That’s why it loads Sysex files. To load DX7 patch data. No samples.

[AnotherMathias]

Maybe they dont have an algorithm that works. The problem with key detection is that there is no software out there that is100% accurate. Sometimes Serato Sample gets it wrong and I resort to making adjustments by ear. If I take a music loop I will often get a different key reported if I feed it to Serato Sample, Hornet Songkey or Melodyne.

Are we talking about picking out the root note from samples of full arrangements? Or perhaps root note and chord type (like Fmaj7sus4, that kind of thing)? Or the key used for a whole long set of chord changes?

I don’t think that an algorithm could ever be great at that, unless the source material is very simple. Too much going on, with all kinds of non-chordal noise, busy bass lines, chord inversions, vague instrumentation, etc.
What is good at picking out notes, chords, and keys? The human ear/brain. You don’t even have to know much theory (although some helps), just play your instrument and listen carefully.

[AnotherMathias]

Inevitably some people are going to be left feeling quite disappointed when we get the new sampler and it doesn't do x, y and z. If you want a powerful sampler just get Kontakt, Halion or even Falcon. Reason studios would never ever in any scenario be able to even compete with those.

You know, I have Kontakt, and I don’t really think it’s all that great. Just like NN-XT its UI is ancient and tiny. NN-XT still has some features that Kontakt doesn’t, like decent monophonic pitch detection, much quicker swapping of files, it reads sample tuning data, and most importantly, has a proper undo!

But we shouldn’t compare Kontakt with NN-XT, we should compare Kontakt with the whole Reason rack, using the upcoming Combinator 2!
Yes, it’s hard to compete with the functionality of the scripting engine, but conversely, there are a ton of things that Reason can do with its stock devices that Kontakt can’t.

Most importantly, making instruments with Kontakt isn’t very fun. Reason, on the other hand, is like a playground full of toys. Perhaps the fun factor can be a draw for at least some content creators?

I agree that Mimic will disappoint some people (probably me). But it is at lest conceivable that they can manage to come up with something that’ll work well for the whole range of different sampling needs. After all, I’m sure they’ve spent at least 10 years thinking about it.

[kbard]

So you can load up patches like Lately Bass etc?

I am not sure what you are asking me? Sysex is generally not used to share banks but yes theoretically I could save a patch on my hardware synth and call it Lately Bass and then later I could use Cubase to send sysex into my synth and it will be recalled.

Because as I said some synths (Virus for example) uses midi or sysex format to share banks between them but sysex is generally let's call it low level communication protocol for controlling your hardware (or deeper level - sorry my english is not my first language) - which is why I don't see a point in NN-XT supporting sysex (hence my question why does anyone need it) and I have never seen any hardware sampler sharing patches in sysex format.

So anyway I was just curious why someone would want NN-XT supporting sysex.

Cheers guys and have a nice weekend

[jaeproduced]

Still No key detection or key shift function which is were Serato Sample stand out...

Maybe they dont have an algorithm that works. The problem with key detection is that there is no software out there that is100% accurate. Sometimes Serato Sample gets it wrong and I resort to making adjustments by ear. If I take a music loop I will often get a different key reported if I feed it to Serato Sample, Hornet Songkey or Melodyne.

Yes but it's good to have as an option & it's a good starting point when you want to make sure you are playing in key...

[miscend]

Are we talking about picking out the root note from samples of full arrangements? Or perhaps root note and chord type (like Fmaj7sus4, that kind of thing)? Or the key used for a whole long set of chord changes?

I don’t think that an algorithm could ever be great at that, unless the source material is very simple. Too much going on, with all kinds of non-chordal noise, busy bass lines, chord inversions, vague instrumentation, etc.
What is good at picking out notes, chords, and keys? The human ear/brain. You don’t even have to know much theory (although some helps), just play your instrument and listen carefully.

Yes the key from a full arrangement which may have chord changes. It's useful information for making DJ mixes and for hip hop producers. And also for autotuning vocals, many producers dont know the key of their own song so they tend to leave Autotune set to chromatic mode.

[jaeproduced]

Are we talking about picking out the root note from samples of full arrangements? Or perhaps root note and chord type (like Fmaj7sus4, that kind of thing)? Or the key used for a whole long set of chord changes?

I don’t think that an algorithm could ever be great at that, unless the source material is very simple. Too much going on, with all kinds of non-chordal noise, busy bass lines, chord inversions, vague instrumentation, etc.
What is good at picking out notes, chords, and keys? The human ear/brain. You don’t even have to know much theory (although some helps), just play your instrument and listen carefully.

Yes the key from a full arrangement which may have chord changes. It's useful information for making DJ mixes and for hip hop producers. And also for autotuning vocals, many producers dont know the key of their own song so they tend to leave Autotune set to chromatic mode.

So what I take from that is the new Mimic Sampler does not have key detection or key shift capability which means in my opinion it's not on par with Serato Sample or even Output Arcade which automatically detects which key your playing in....

[Ottostrom]

Yes the key from a full arrangement which may have chord changes. It's useful information for making DJ mixes and for hip hop producers. And also for autotuning vocals, many producers dont know the key of their own song so they tend to leave Autotune set to chromatic mode.

So what I take from that is the new Mimic Sampler does not have key detection or key shift capability which means in my opinion it's not on par with Serato Sample or even Output Arcade which automatically detects which key your playing in....

A very strange conclusion considering the people here are talking about what they want from a sampler and do not have access to the yet unreleased Mimic one...

[jaeproduced]

So what I take from that is the new Mimic Sampler does not have key detection or key shift capability which means in my opinion it's not on par with Serato Sample or even Output Arcade which automatically detects which key your playing in....

A very strange conclusion considering the people here are talking about what they want from a sampler and do not have access to the yet unreleased Mimic one...

Well I hope I'm very wrong and it does have those features....

[AnotherMathias]

Yes the key from a full arrangement which may have chord changes. It's useful information for making DJ mixes and for hip hop producers. And also for autotuning vocals, many producers dont know the key of their own song so they tend to leave Autotune set to chromatic mode.

Hrmph. Might as well get a self-painting automatic brush and pretend you're an artist...

[Creativemind]

I agree (sadly). The blurry image, plus the hires bottom quarter leak, allows us to do some semi-educated guesses.

There’s still a possibility that those two areas on top, with the red selectors, hide a big tabbed UI, and what we see in the leak is only part of the interface.

It seems that perhaps the stuff we can see is on the tab for editing a single sample, out of many tabs. That would explain why there are two FX sends, only a single insert FX unit (set to “noise” in the picture), only a basic LFO and no MSEG.
Further FX, LFOs, EGs, and key mapping, might be found in a master tab.

Purely guessing, of course.

I think you are right with the tabs and that you can switch between more editing windows. And there seems to be a little keyboard display maybe for key assignment.

Still not sure why they didn't just update the NN-XT? It only needed a new skin or more modern gui, it's own sample editor (useable in the RRP) with tempo sync / Key detection and chopping, a few more audio import formats (as some formats it doesn't take does it?) and then the follow song function (so the sample doesn't speed up or slow down up or down the keyboard) then possibly a mod matrix and fx section. A lot less work (although still a bit) than a whole new sampler. That is of course if it doesn't have a lot more functionality in tabs / windows we can't see from that blurry pic.

I will be severely disappointed if Mimic doesn't have that follow song (that's what Studio One's Sample One calls it) feature. It will be the first thing I'm checking.

[artotaku]

I think you are right with the tabs and that you can switch between more editing windows. And there seems to be a little keyboard display maybe for key assignment.

Still not sure why they didn't just update the NN-XT? It only needed a new skin or more modern gui, it's own sample editor (useable in the RRP) with tempo sync / Key detection and chopping, a few more audio import formats (as some formats it doesn't take does it?) and then the follow song function (so the sample doesn't speed up or slow down up or down the keyboard) then possibly a mod matrix and fx section. A lot less work (although still a bit) than a whole new sampler. That is of course if it doesn't have a lot more functionality in tabs / windows we can't see from that blurry pic.

I will be severely disappointed if Mimic doesn't have that follow song (that's what Studio One's Sample One calls it) feature. It will be the first thing I'm checking.

Well, I think, from a software development perspective there are some strong points speaking against updating the NNXT

• Changing the implementation of an existing device has side effects on the stability will lure bugs on the device, making customers unhappy if these bugs are not found at release
• NNXT is not a RE and thus not developed against the RE SDK API. New devices should typically be REs because they adhere to a better separation in code, comply to the API and allow distribution over the code meter/companion. It even could be developed with Gorilla Engine.
• a new device is not tied to the architectere of the existing device which give you more freedom designing the device
• a brand new device can be better marketed

However, there are also some downsides. If the new sampler is a RE it will be restricted to the rudimentary sample handling API the RE SDK offers. I don´t see that it is possible what NNXT does (moving samples around inside the display, batch deletion of samples, etc.). Ofc, we don´t know if the sample API gets updated with a new SDK release but I doubt it at this point. This is also the reason why we haven´t seen a RE that offers vast multi sample support.
I speculate that it will have sample mangling in interesting ways but no multi sample support (or very limited to e. g. 8 samples).

[Creativemind]

Has anyone got any better quality pics (with maybe more to show) of Mimic yet?

[slic]

Has anyone got any better quality pics (with maybe more to show) of Mimic yet?

There is surprisingly little information/leaks or even rumours....amazing really! We basilcay know nothing at all!

[DaveyG]

Has anyone got any better quality pics (with maybe more to show) of Mimic yet?

There is surprisingly little information/leaks or even rumours....amazing really! We basilcay know nothing at all!

You'll find out in just 28 sleeps. That's just 20 more sleeps than the sampler has channels.