Do you think reason will ever get a better sampler?

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jam-s
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Post 21 Jul 2021

AnotherMathias wrote:
21 Jul 2021
I think that this fuzzy image looks quite plausible. It matches the high resolution image of the bottom bit that we’ve seen elsewhere.
Unfortunately, to the extent that we can guess about the blurry bits, I think it seems a bit lackluster. Standard amp and filter, ASDR envelopes, and a single LFO. One assignable effect, plus a one-knob compressor. DJ style high/low EQ, and perhaps bizarrely, two effects sends.

There’s some mysterious stuff along the top that COULD contain some fun bits, like different playback modes. It’s unclear if it’s just a single file slice-and-stretch machine, but I don’t see any signs of a provision for a multi sample key map.

People like me, who were hoping for a new NN-XT, will probably have to keep using the old one for another 15 or so years.
The fuzzy image is most likely a screen grab from the device listing in the browser. So it should be pretty accurate. I agree that from the looks of it is seems to be more in line with Serato Sampler or Ableton Simpler than to be an updated NN-XT which could rival Kontakt. Which seems to be the smart decision as the market for fat and advanced sample libraries (romplers) has been saturated imho with Kontakt, Elastik, Halion, and SFZ Soundplayer/sforzando, or custom rompler engines like the ones from Spitfire audio or IK Multimedia.
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madmacman
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Post 21 Jul 2021

jam-s wrote:
21 Jul 2021
I agree that from the looks of it is seems to be more in line with Serato Sampler or Ableton Simpler than to be an updated NN-XT which could rival Kontakt. Which seems to be the smart decision as the market for fat and advanced sample libraries (romplers) has been saturated imho with Kontakt, Elastik, Halion, and SFZ Soundplayer/sforzando, or custom rompler engines like the ones from Spitfire audio or IK Multimedia.
Totally agree. The current market seems to ask for quick mangling tools (e.g. the new Quick Sampler in Logic, or the Sample Track in Cubase). I don‘t expect a Kontakt competitor from RS.

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helmutson
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Post 21 Jul 2021

... and a nice side effect is, it doesn't need a big new sample library, clever ;)
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kbard
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Post 21 Jul 2021

My guess is that the new sampler is aimed more toward "experimentation" or design so to speak. So it probably have something unique about it. Like throw in a sample of a toilet water flushing and get something unique. Or record into it with a twist. PErhaps some unique time stretching algorithms and so on.

So there's no need for multisample thing which is NN-XT like.

We all need to wait at least until they release a video about it. Speaking about it - where is it? Usually they release a video of upcoming products.

I was under impression that we'll see new Combinator features or something about the new sampler by now.

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Ottostrom
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Post 21 Jul 2021

lowtom wrote:
21 Jul 2021
helmutson wrote:
19 Jul 2021
After no more reliable evidences ( :lol: ) , I really don't think this pic is Mimic Sampler. It's so poorly designed ... no way. Thats a fake for sure ...
And what makes you so sure? :puf_bigsmile:

Here is another screengrab. mimic.png


Sorry but I will not state the source as I'm not the one who will point fingers. It obviously was leaked unintenionally.
Oh snap, I recognise that default template and went to confirm that this is indeed from a recent video!
So this is no doubt how the new sampler will look :-)

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fullforce
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Post 21 Jul 2021

helmutson wrote:
21 Jul 2021
OK, not sure any longer ... but it's very different than I had expected ... so to speak.
I wonder if Reason will now finally have a sampler with cut and paste.
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AnotherMathias
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Post 21 Jul 2021

helmutson wrote:
21 Jul 2021
... and a nice side effect is, it doesn't need a big new sample library, clever ;)
Yes, I think that’s a big reason why they wouldn’t make a big instrument sampler!
Not only would they have to create the device, but there would the expectation that a big fresh instrument library would come with it. And also that the entire existing factory library would be updated using the new features of the new device.

A quick and dirty sample mangler with real time time stretch is probably appropriate for the typical Reason user. But as somebody who spends 75% of my time in NN-XT, I can’t help wishing for a mk2. Nothing crazy, just modernized a bit, with a bigger key map editor with collapsible groups (funny, I care more about sample grouping than track grouping!), a less 2005-looking UI, and a basic FX engine (just porting the existing one from Operator would be great).
Of course , we all know that Reason barely ever update their devices.

The fact that big sample players like Kontakt exists shouldn’t be a factor. Using that logic, they wouldn’t have made a wavetable synth, a granular synth, or an FM synth. Those things had already been covered i with popular VSTs at the times that they were released.

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helmutson
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Post 21 Jul 2021

I wouldn't need a bigger and better NN-XT ... I really would like to see something like VP9000 or so, that makes sense in my eyes, because RS got brilliant stretch and pitch algos already ... fingers crossed :thumbup:
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QVprod
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Post 21 Jul 2021

AnotherMathias wrote:
21 Jul 2021
helmutson wrote:
21 Jul 2021
... and a nice side effect is, it doesn't need a big new sample library, clever ;)
Yes, I think that’s a big reason why they wouldn’t make a big instrument sampler!
Not only would they have to create the device, but there would the expectation that a big fresh instrument library would come with it. And also that the entire existing factory library would be updated using the new features of the new device.

A quick and dirty sample mangler with real time time stretch is probably appropriate for the typical Reason user. But as somebody who spends 75% of my time in NN-XT, I can’t help wishing for a mk2. Nothing crazy, just modernized a bit, with a bigger key map editor with collapsible groups (funny, I care more about sample grouping than track grouping!), a less 2005-looking UI, and a basic FX engine (just porting the existing one from Operator would be great).
Of course , we all know that Reason barely ever update their devices.

The fact that big sample players like Kontakt exists shouldn’t be a factor. Using that logic, they wouldn’t have made a wavetable synth, a granular synth, or an FM synth. Those things had already been covered i with popular VSTs at the times that they were released.
Probably said this earlier in this thread or another, but I doubt the issue is that Kontakt exists, but that RS has their own Kontakt-like sampler for Rack Extension development. So it already exists. To put that in the rack for general use would likely interfere with REs. A general update to NNXT would be nice though.

kbard
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Post 21 Jul 2021

Yeah NNXT with new zero delay filters, new filter types ala z-plane, comb filters, snappier envelopes - no need for redoing everything. Some structural changes (while retaining backward compatibility) could breathe life in it.

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Creativemind
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Post 21 Jul 2021

KGB wrote:
20 Jul 2021
Creativemind wrote:
18 Jul 2021


I'm afraid to say you're right.

They add quantizing of audio with the slice edit and don't add transient time displays or transient sensitivity.

They update the mixer in 7 and didn't add more sends, ganged faders, PDC (which is very needed for Parallel Processing which was added in that version) or collapsible subgroups.

They add a browser in 8 and didn't add sync'ing of both the rack and sequencer browsers nor an audio wave display or tempo sync.

They add themes in 9 and not have them apply to the mixer and have to restart Reason to apply.

They added slicing midi notes in 9 but didn't add joining to notes with it.

They added Bounce In Place in 9 but didn't include Merging or a Mono bounce option.

They added Curved Automaton in 11 and didn't add multiple curves or drawable curves.

They added Audio Crossfades in 11 but again only one curve and no vertical alignment.

They added thatcwuick drawing of notes in 11 but doesn't work vertically.

They added Muting Notes in 11 but you have to click the individual notes instead of being able scroll which would've been really elligant.

They added that Highlighting Notes in 11 but no midi controller key highlighting across the note row so you can quickly find where that note is on your midi controller.
:D :D :D :D this is hilarious

Why are they doing that?
a) They don't want their software to be functionally competitive.
b) They have no vision.
c) They're trying to not make it too bloated with features.

Is it a design choice to leave things out?
:reason:

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AnotherMathias
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Post 21 Jul 2021

kbard wrote:
21 Jul 2021
Yeah NNXT with new zero delay filters, new filter types ala z-plane, comb filters, snappier envelopes - no need for redoing everything. Some structural changes (while retaining backward compatibility) could breathe life in it.
I suppose a RV7000 mk2 or a Parsec 2 kind of miracle isn't impossible!
I'd be fine without backward compatibility, as long as it could read the old NN-XT files. A bit like how NN-XT can read NN19 files.

AnotherMathias
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Post 21 Jul 2021

QVprod wrote:
21 Jul 2021
Probably said this earlier in this thread or another, but I doubt the issue is that Kontakt exists, but that RS has their own Kontakt-like sampler for Rack Extension development. So it already exists. To put that in the rack for general use would likely interfere with REs. A general update to NNXT would be nice though.
Wait, what?
You think that RS might have a Kontakt-ish sampler for internal RE development?
Which REs would have been produced that way? Scenic? Perhaps Reason Bass and Reason Drum Kit, I guess. And Radical Piano and Radical Keys.

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jam-s
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Post 21 Jul 2021

AnotherMathias wrote:
21 Jul 2021
Wait, what?
You think that RS might have a Kontakt-ish sampler for internal RE development?
Which REs would have been produced that way? Scenic? Perhaps Reason Bass and Reason Drum Kit, I guess. And Radical Piano and Radical Keys.
Almost, it's called the IDT which is based on UJAM's gorilla engine: see viewtopic.php?t=7506857
Quite a lot of REs use this (and if I remember correctly it also has a converter/import script for Kontakt patches).
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Carpainter
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Post 21 Jul 2021

QVprod wrote:
21 Jul 2021
Probably said this earlier in this thread or another, but I doubt the issue is that Kontakt exists, but that RS has their own Kontakt-like sampler for Rack Extension development. So it already exists. To put that in the rack for general use would likely interfere with REs. A general update to NNXT would be nice though.
This is why I'm a bit wary of Combinator 2. As a Max user, I can envision a Super Combinator that would allow us to create complex new instruments with existing devices. In reality, I'm expecting something much less flexible.

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QVprod
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Post Yesterday

AnotherMathias wrote:
21 Jul 2021
QVprod wrote:
21 Jul 2021
Probably said this earlier in this thread or another, but I doubt the issue is that Kontakt exists, but that RS has their own Kontakt-like sampler for Rack Extension development. So it already exists. To put that in the rack for general use would likely interfere with REs. A general update to NNXT would be nice though.
Wait, what?
You think that RS might have a Kontakt-ish sampler for internal RE development?
Which REs would have been produced that way? Scenic? Perhaps Reason Bass and Reason Drum Kit, I guess. And Radical Piano and Radical Keys.
Not “might” they do. Have had it for years at this point. Most of the sample based REs are made using it.

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QVprod
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Post Yesterday

Carpainter wrote:
21 Jul 2021
QVprod wrote:
21 Jul 2021
Probably said this earlier in this thread or another, but I doubt the issue is that Kontakt exists, but that RS has their own Kontakt-like sampler for Rack Extension development. So it already exists. To put that in the rack for general use would likely interfere with REs. A general update to NNXT would be nice though.
This is why I'm a bit wary of Combinator 2. As a Max user, I can envision a Super Combinator that would allow us to create complex new instruments with existing devices. In reality, I'm expecting something much less flexible.
I have a little more confidence. I think we’ll still be able to create complex instruments, but nothing that’s gonna rival RE. I think we’ll be able to do things on a similar level as the Kontakt Play stuff at least though with the added controls. Since this will likely be heavily used for Reason +, I suspect they should make it interesting enough.

AnotherMathias
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Post Yesterday

QVprod wrote:
Yesterday
I have a little more confidence. I think we’ll still be able to create complex instruments, but nothing that’s gonna rival RE. I think we’ll be able to do things on a similar level as the Kontakt Play stuff at least though with the added controls. Since this will likely be heavily used for Reason +, I suspect they should make it interesting enough.
I pretty much agree. With the stock set of devices and players and the potential of a Combinator 2, we should be able to produce a lot of things that approaches the capabilities and quality of Kontakt, and in a few areas even exceed it! This could be a selling point for composers to get the Reason plugin.

That's one reason I feel that it's a bit embarrassing to be stuck using such an ancient sample player as NN-XT (even though I quite like it).

For the final product to feel more professional, it might be useful if Combinator 2 would allow us to lock the editing of the combi, to hide how the sausage is made. Especially if when you'd open it, you'd see some old-ass devices in there!

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QVprod
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Post Yesterday

AnotherMathias wrote:
Yesterday
QVprod wrote:
Yesterday
I have a little more confidence. I think we’ll still be able to create complex instruments, but nothing that’s gonna rival RE. I think we’ll be able to do things on a similar level as the Kontakt Play stuff at least though with the added controls. Since this will likely be heavily used for Reason +, I suspect they should make it interesting enough.
I pretty much agree. With the stock set of devices and players and the potential of a Combinator 2, we should be able to produce a lot of things that approaches the capabilities and quality of Kontakt, and in a few areas even exceed it! This could be a selling point for composers to get the Reason plugin.

That's one reason I feel that it's a bit embarrassing to be stuck using such an ancient sample player as NN-XT (even though I quite like it).

For the final product to feel more professional, it might be useful if Combinator 2 would allow us to lock the editing of the combi, to hide how the sausage is made. Especially if when you'd open it, you'd see some old-ass devices in there!
That probably adds some inspiration actually. If there’s one thing R+ has done, it’s given appreciation for some of the older devices.

Eusantis
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Post Today

kbard wrote:
21 Jul 2021

We all need to wait at least until they release a video about it. Speaking about it - where is it? Usually they release a video of upcoming products.
I am waiting too for it.

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Creativemind
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Post Today

jaeproduced wrote:
18 Jul 2021
1. I would like the new sampler to be able to import Wav, Rex, Aiff & Mp3 files.
And sysex files too no?

For me, as long as it does everything the NN-XT does but also has it's own built in sample editor which can chop the samples up by the transients into slices and you're able to do lots of things with those chops such as reverse, adjust their volume, normalize, rearrange, apply fx to the individual slices, pitch shift and you can tempo sync the whole sample too and double speed or half speed and this is a must, has the option to play a sample up and down the keyboard without it speeding up or slowing down as an option, so can turn that on or off. Also has the ability to use the sample editor in the RRP.
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jam-s
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Post Today

Creativemind wrote:
Today
For me, as long as it does everything the NN-XT does but also ...
I highly doubt that it can do all of the nice things NN-XT can do (like groups, round robins, etc.).
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Creativemind
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Post Today

jam-s wrote:
Today
Creativemind wrote:
Today
For me, as long as it does everything the NN-XT does but also ...
I highly doubt that it can do all of the nice things NN-XT can do (like groups, round robins, etc.).
Why d'you say that?
:reason:

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Creativemind
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Post Today

lowtom wrote:
18 Jul 2021
Mimic Creative Sampler.
mimic.png

It is not my leak as I do not have access to beta of it. I found it by pure luck watching some YT videos.
Wish that picture of Mimic was better quality lol!
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slic
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Post Today

Its nearly August, they could do with releasing the beta of Mimic (and Combiner 2) if they ant any sort of mass test and a change to fix things...6 weeks to launch?
Obviously they will be with some beta testers, but the more the merrier if they want a low bug launch...a lot of people will be trying Reason (especially Reason Rack) 'HD' for the first time....first impressions and all that.

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