Live use questions

[campersand]

Hi all! I'm in a top 40 cover band and we've decided to upgrade our keyboard player's setup from a couple of cheap keyboards to a laptop/midi controller with Reason. There are a couple things we're still unsure about though:

1) Switching sounds within songs - Quite often he has to switch to a different sound really quickly and then switch back during a song (in addition to splitting the keyboard, which I understand how to do in Reason). The way I've worked out to do this is by assigning each instrument to a midi channel and switching channels on the controller. However, I'm curious to hear any alternative ways to do this.

2) Switching from song to song - One of the main reasons we're making this upgrade is to shorten time between songs. I'm assuming we'll have one Reason file per song, and he'll have an explorer window open where he can find and open each new song. However, it would be super cool if there was a way he could create set lists without too much hassle, so that he could just hit a button or something and switch to the next song. Is anything like this possible?

Thanks in advance! Any other general advice for using Reason live is welcome too!

[QVprod]

I'll be forward and say Reason (and most DAWs for that matter) isn't the best live tool for setlist based gigs. However, the easiest path is instead of using midi channels you load every patch needed for every song as it's own device. Then all you're doing is just switching tracks via buttons on the midi controller. Just make sure the patches (in the sequencer) are in the order of your setlist. Keyboard splits can of course be done with combinators if you aren't already doing that.

Multiple Reason songs can work too, but is slower having to fiddle with the computer to switch or close songs and requires the same amount of processing power.

Here's a video from way back about live keyboard setups

[househoppin09]

Fully agreed with everything QVprod just said. I wouldn't use separate Reason song files if I were you. Lots of ways for that to go wrong, I'd think. In the context of a live performance, the last thing you want is to have to open and close apps, hunt around for files, etc. Ideally it shouldn't be necessary to touch the laptop at all, and that should be achievable if you follow an approach like the one QVprod described above.

[campersand]

Thanks guys. I just watched that video and it was very helpful! When using one patch per song, do you just use a combinator for any songs that require multiple instruments? What about songs with multiple combinators (say, for two different splits)?

We're not totally set on Reason, btw. It's just the only program that can do this sort of thing that any of us know how to use. I'm open to suggestions though.

[househoppin09]

Honestly, Reason should be fine for this, unless you have certain much more specific needs that you haven't brought up so far in this thread. As for "one patch per song", that's not quite what I would suggest. I'd say you should create a template for each set as a whole, shortly before the show once the playlist has been finalized. (If you're not sure how to create a template, see for example the following video:)

Of course, you could also just make it a regular non-template Reason song file, but having a template could be useful if you'll be using it over and over again, especially if you'll need to generate variations from one show to the next.

In the song/template for your set, you won't necessarily have a rigid boundary between the patches for the different songs. You can just set up all the patches for the entire set one after another, so that when you look in the sequencer view, the list of sequencer tracks starts with the first patch for the first song at the top, then the second patch for the first song, etc., with the last patch for the last song at the bottom of the sequencer. Then, you can simply use "next sequencer track" and "previous sequencer track" MIDI messages from your keyboard to navigate the patches across the overall setlist. Combinators can simply be used as usual, only when there's some need to layer multiple instruments into a single patch for performance purposes. Get the idea?

[campersand]

Okay, that makes sense, and for songs that require multiple sounds we'd just load both instruments back to back? I can see how that would be the fastest way to switch between songs but it also for some reason seems like it'd be easy for something to go wrong, and like it might be kind of cumbersome to load all the patches or if we changed up the set. But maybe I just need to try it and see.

I've looked at Cantabile as an alternative, seems like that would work well but then we'd have to get all the sounds (vst's) separately.

[househoppin09]

Yeah, I'd just load the instruments back to back. if your setlist is pre-determined, I think the easiest thing would just be to treat the whole show as one big mega-song for purposes of setting this up. Of course, if you'll be changing up the set order on the fly (i.e. improvising the order of the songs based on audience response or whatever), you'll need to take a different approach. But for pre-determined sets, why overcomplicate things? Just load up all the patches you'll need, in the order you'll need them, and step through them all as the set progresses. If the set changes from one show to the next, you can use a template as I described and tweak it on a per-show basis, dragging groups of sequencer tracks up or down in the sequencer as necessary.

You may end up with a lot of sequencer tracks and rack devices with this approach, but there's no reason that needs to be cumbersome, except maybe a bit during the initial set-up process. Once you're performing, it'll just be a matter of using the "next sequencer track" and "previous sequencer track" buttons. Loading time and processing power shouldn't be issues unless your laptop is quite underpowered, or you're trying to run lots of very demanding plugins. Give it a whirl and report back with any difficulties you run into, they should all be easy enough to address.

Additional tip: you can create blank "dummy" sequencer tracks and position them at the song boundaries, so that you have a clear visual indication of where each song is in the setlist. It would just take one additional button press to skip past them in between songs, so really no trouble at all, and will eliminate any possibility for confusion if the player will be looking for visual feedback from the laptop screen.

[Timmy Crowne]

If you’re going to be using tempo-based effects from within Reason, another idea you could explore is using Blocks. You could set up a Block for each song containing nothing but tempo automation so that everything stays synced up when you need it.

[QVprod]

Okay, that makes sense, and for songs that require multiple sounds we'd just load both instruments back to back? I can see how that would be the fastest way to switch between songs but it also for some reason seems like it'd be easy for something to go wrong, and like it might be kind of cumbersome to load all the patches or if we changed up the set. But maybe I just need to try it and see.

I've looked at Cantabile as an alternative, seems like that would work well but then we'd have to get all the sounds (vst's) separately.

You can also look at GIg Performer. It's cross platform and some people prefer it to Mainstage. Of course just like Cantabile you would need the VSTs to use with it however. If everything you own is Reason based then of course Reason would be the way to go unless you're a Mac user. If you were then Mainstage is $30, has all it's own instruments and fx, and is Rewire compatible so you can use it with Reason.

[campersand]

Okay guys, thanks for all your help. I have it set up like you suggested, househoppin09, and it's working great except I'm having an issue with controller mapping.

Our keyboardist needs to be able to control some parameters during performance (filter sweeps, volume swells, etc.). As far as I can tell, though, Reason only lets you control one parameter per knob for one instrument in your rack. Meaning if I have a knob mapped to the frequency of "Instrument 1" and I switch to the next track in the sequencer and/or select the next instrument in the rack, that knob still only controls the frequency of Instrument 1, rendering it useless for any other instruments.

Is this correct or am I missing something?

[Ejectzero]

Hey Campersand - I use Reason live with a midi keyboard (Novation Launchkey) and I love it! Never had to shop around.

I make one combinator for every track - the four knobs on my combinator is more than enough for a song and auto routes to the first four knobs I have available on my keyboard. Most midi controllers have some sort of automap that would be compatible with reason. I recommend you download your keyboards user manual and figure it out. Otherwise create one remote map template for a combinator and youll be set (i have never needed to do this so cant help). I assume you know how to program knobs on the combinator to the specific parameters you want to change.

For quick switching of sounds I use a free rack extension, Morfin XF crossfader to quickly switch between sounds with my modulation wheel.

You need to understand basic Reason rack operations to perform this but I personally have not found a single idea that I couldn't create live with reason.
Lastly my midi keyboard has next and back buttons that automatically switch to the next and previous combinator. I just arrange the sequencer in the correct order and I'm good to go for a live set (note sequencer and not rack). I frequently do this 10-20mins before we go up.

Hope this helps

[campersand]

Hi Ejectzero,

Thanks for the advice, the combinator was the solution! I'm a little confused as to why the keyboard will switch combinator controls but not individual instrument controls, but at this point it doesn't really matter. Excited to get this up and running!

[chimp_spanner]

Okay guys, thanks for all your help. I have it set up like you suggested, househoppin09, and it's working great except I'm having an issue with controller mapping.

Our keyboardist needs to be able to control some parameters during performance (filter sweeps, volume swells, etc.). As far as I can tell, though, Reason only lets you control one parameter per knob for one instrument in your rack. Meaning if I have a knob mapped to the frequency of "Instrument 1" and I switch to the next track in the sequencer and/or select the next instrument in the rack, that knob still only controls the frequency of Instrument 1, rendering it useless for any other instruments.

Is this correct or am I missing something?

Ahh yes, I really wish remote override maps were on a per-device basis, and not the whole project. I hope this is something that can be fixed one day! As others have said what you will need to do is use the default maps that come with each device. There is a way to edit them and create your own? But I don't know how to do it and it'd be a hefty amount of work, albeit work you'd only have to do once!

[househoppin09]

Glad you got it all sorted out, campersand! Check back with us anytime if further issues come up.

[Ejectzero]

Hi Ejectzero,

Thanks for the advice, the combinator was the solution! I'm a little confused as to why the keyboard will switch combinator controls but not individual instrument controls, but at this point it doesn't really matter. Excited to get this up and running!

Cool man! Enjoy it!