NNXT: Sample Playback

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braille
Posts: 17
Joined: 16 Mar 2018

24 Jul 2018

Reason 10: I thought this issue was related to Reason 4 because it was outdated, but it exists in Reason 10 as well.

Using the NNXT to play vocals I recorded (WAV file). I've drawn in a long midi note that starts on measure 19 to trigger the sample, and goes all the way to measure 63.. If I start my song before measure 19, the sample plays fine. If I start the song anywhere after measure 19, the sample doesn't play at all.

I'm using the NNXT because this whole song was written in Reason 4, and all my slices and parameter values are locked in. A lot of samplers will play the sample from any starting position within the song, and I figured, upgrading to Reason 10 the NNXT would be able to do this. Am I missing something? a button? a setting?

Trying to tweak a verse or chorus can be challenging because if I'm looping that particular section, I can't hear the vocals over it. I have to start my song at measure 19 and wait until the song gets to the part I just edited to see if the vocals clash with the new melody.
Last edited by braille on 24 Jul 2018, edited 1 time in total.

deepndark
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24 Jul 2018

Non of the Reason sampler does that atm. We had a conversation about it just a tad backwards here over RT.
Sure, we all would like to have this too.

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Timmy Crowne
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24 Jul 2018

The only solution I can think of would be to bounce your vocal sample tracks to new audio recordings in the sequencer. That way your vocals would always be playing.


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chimp_spanner
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25 Jul 2018

Yeah what Reason needs is something called MIDI note chase, which would basically trigger a MIDI note on event if playback starts halfway through a note/chord/whatever.

However, I'm not sure any DAW out there would have a solution to this problem as, AFAIK, there's no sampler out there that can "know" to play a note from bar X, but behave as though it was triggered at bar Y. In my experience, every sampler out there will start the sample from the beginning, even with note chase. Exceptions to that would be samplers that have some kind of transport sync and can read song position.

As others have said, the solution is to just bounce the notes to audio and then you can delete the original NN-XT and work with it as though you'd recorded into Reason 10.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

25 Jul 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Jul 2018
Yeah what Reason needs is something called MIDI note chase, which would basically trigger a MIDI note on event if playback starts halfway through a note/chord/whatever.

However, I'm not sure any DAW out there would have a solution to this problem as, AFAIK, there's no sampler out there that can "know" to play a note from bar X, but behave as though it was triggered at bar Y. In my experience, every sampler out there will start the sample from the beginning, even with note chase. Exceptions to that would be samplers that have some kind of transport sync and can read song position.

As others have said, the solution is to just bounce the notes to audio and then you can delete the original NN-XT and work with it as though you'd recorded into Reason 10.
I’m unfamiliar with MIDI note chase. You mention that all samplers start at sample beginning...do you know of any sampler (hardware or software) that actually respects MIDI SPP or SMPTE/MIDI TC to lock to the specific portion of the sample played?

I’ve yet to run into a sequencer (and I’m on Nuendo 6 and Live 9 in recent experience) that allows you to play one long (say 16 bar) MIDI note and then play it from wherever in the track you are, I’ve always had to go back to the start of the note-on event to get the instrument to play. Then again, I work with a lot of hardware which could make all the difference.

Interested in your reply.
-Jim
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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QVprod
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25 Jul 2018

Like everyone else said. right click the clip and bounce to audio. There's no benefit in the old work around for getting audio into Reason now that there are actual audio tracks

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QVprod
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25 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
25 Jul 2018
chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Jul 2018
Yeah what Reason needs is something called MIDI note chase, which would basically trigger a MIDI note on event if playback starts halfway through a note/chord/whatever.

However, I'm not sure any DAW out there would have a solution to this problem as, AFAIK, there's no sampler out there that can "know" to play a note from bar X, but behave as though it was triggered at bar Y. In my experience, every sampler out there will start the sample from the beginning, even with note chase. Exceptions to that would be samplers that have some kind of transport sync and can read song position.

As others have said, the solution is to just bounce the notes to audio and then you can delete the original NN-XT and work with it as though you'd recorded into Reason 10.
I’m unfamiliar with MIDI note chase. You mention that all samplers start at sample beginning...do you know of any sampler (hardware or software) that actually respects MIDI SPP or SMPTE/MIDI TC to lock to the specific portion of the sample played?
Midi note chase isn't a sampler thing. It's a DAW feature that allows midi to still trigger even if it's not at the start of the note. As mentioned, it would still start at the beginning of the sample. This is a feature that's most beneficial for virtual instruments instead of long samples.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

25 Jul 2018

QVprod wrote:
25 Jul 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
25 Jul 2018


I’m unfamiliar with MIDI note chase. You mention that all samplers start at sample beginning...do you know of any sampler (hardware or software) that actually respects MIDI SPP or SMPTE/MIDI TC to lock to the specific portion of the sample played?
Midi note chase isn't a sampler thing. It's a DAW feature that allows midi to still trigger even if it's not at the start of the note. As mentioned, it would still start at the beginning of the sample. This is a feature that's most beneficial for virtual instruments instead of long samples.
Right. Once I have the sampler sounding how I want I record to audio (since I have to with hardware samplers) and work with it that way.

I remember having to get vocals and audio into Reason using the samplers as “audio tracks”....I certainly don’t miss that!
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

25 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
25 Jul 2018
chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Jul 2018
Yeah what Reason needs is something called MIDI note chase, which would basically trigger a MIDI note on event if playback starts halfway through a note/chord/whatever.

However, I'm not sure any DAW out there would have a solution to this problem as, AFAIK, there's no sampler out there that can "know" to play a note from bar X, but behave as though it was triggered at bar Y. In my experience, every sampler out there will start the sample from the beginning, even with note chase. Exceptions to that would be samplers that have some kind of transport sync and can read song position.

As others have said, the solution is to just bounce the notes to audio and then you can delete the original NN-XT and work with it as though you'd recorded into Reason 10.
I’m unfamiliar with MIDI note chase. You mention that all samplers start at sample beginning...do you know of any sampler (hardware or software) that actually respects MIDI SPP or SMPTE/MIDI TC to lock to the specific portion of the sample played?

I’ve yet to run into a sequencer (and I’m on Nuendo 6 and Live 9 in recent experience) that allows you to play one long (say 16 bar) MIDI note and then play it from wherever in the track you are, I’ve always had to go back to the start of the note-on event to get the instrument to play. Then again, I work with a lot of hardware which could make all the difference.

Interested in your reply.
-Jim
Yeah MIDI note chase just relates to the way the host/DAW responds to MIDI notes when played from in the middle. That's totally independent of sampler behaviour, but also largely irrelevant in this case. There is no sampler that I know of that can do what you're asking. The sequencer would have to somehow be "aware" of the previous note-on event, and then send the distance between that event and the playhead to the sampler and tell it to adjust the sample start position to compensate. Virtually impossible, especially if you take into account polyphonic patches.

There's no good reason to continue working with long MIDI notes and chopped samples in a DAW that now has audio tracks, so select all the events, right click, bounce/render selection and you're good to go!

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EnochLight
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25 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
25 Jul 2018
I remember having to get vocals and audio into Reason using the samplers as “audio tracks”....I certainly don’t miss that!
I have SOOOO many older Reason tracks that were like this, it was painful! Lol! :lol: As soon as Record appeared, I started to convert many over to a proper DAW setup, but lost interest.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

braille
Posts: 17
Joined: 16 Mar 2018

26 Jul 2018

I'm just going to bounce straight to audio. If I decide to tweak any parameters I'll just have to listen to it through the NNXT from the beginning, or bounce it to an audio track again. Not that big of a deal, just a small extra step.

I seem to remember a sampler in Cakewalk's Sonar X2 called "Rapture" that could play the sample from any position. Its very possible it wasn't using midi, or maybe I had wired it through an audio track and thought it was triggering sample playback from any position. That was a long time ago; I can't remember.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies!

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

26 Jul 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Jul 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
25 Jul 2018


I’m unfamiliar with MIDI note chase. You mention that all samplers start at sample beginning...do you know of any sampler (hardware or software) that actually respects MIDI SPP or SMPTE/MIDI TC to lock to the specific portion of the sample played?

I’ve yet to run into a sequencer (and I’m on Nuendo 6 and Live 9 in recent experience) that allows you to play one long (say 16 bar) MIDI note and then play it from wherever in the track you are, I’ve always had to go back to the start of the note-on event to get the instrument to play. Then again, I work with a lot of hardware which could make all the difference.

Interested in your reply.
-Jim
Yeah MIDI note chase just relates to the way the host/DAW responds to MIDI notes when played from in the middle. That's totally independent of sampler behaviour, but also largely irrelevant in this case. There is no sampler that I know of that can do what you're asking. The sequencer would have to somehow be "aware" of the previous note-on event, and then send the distance between that event and the playhead to the sampler and tell it to adjust the sample start position to compensate. Virtually impossible, especially if you take into account polyphonic patches.

There's no good reason to continue working with long MIDI notes and chopped samples in a DAW that now has audio tracks, so select all the events, right click, bounce/render selection and you're good to go!
Just to add a side note about Midi note chase, they are no good for pads or anything with a long attack time as it's my understanding the instrument is triggered but the envelope are from the start point and not the point in time.. (bounce is the best option again in this case).

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

27 Jul 2018

Yeah for sure. It’s not a magic fix-all thing. It can still be frustrating sometimes because as you say any envelopes or modulations begin from where you play and so for longneck evolving sounds or risers you will always have to play from the start even if chase is implemented. Bouncing will always be the best solution in those cases. It’s mostly useful for sustained chords or bass notes or whatever.

Lytz1
Posts: 7
Joined: 19 May 2018

15 Aug 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Jul 2018

There is no sampler that I know of that can do what you're asking. The sequencer would have to somehow be "aware" of the previous note-on event, and then send the distance between that event and the playhead to the sampler and tell it to adjust the sample start position to compensate. Virtually impossible, especially if you take into account polyphonic patches.
Trackers like Renoise and Radium can do that.

However, AFAIK this is a very unique capability indeed.

Midi Note Chase is a must anyways. Logic has this since decades.
(Bitwig, on the other hand, does not... :puf_bigsmile: )

Marc64
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15 Aug 2018

Yeah midi chase would be great option in reason, it's annoying to either start over from where the notes play or bounce to audio.

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bitley
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15 Aug 2018

If you think about it closer you would realize that would be a pretty bad idea.

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