how do you utilise channel bounce to improve DSP/performance

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40charlton07
Posts: 12
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

20 Jul 2018

Hi ReasonTalk users,

I have often gotten to a point where my projects get too big and start to pop/glitch with the DSP meter hitting its peak which seems to happen more when moving the mouse or scrolling through the project. i have tried lots of the usual stuff on my 2017 iMac with latest OSX like display tweaks and within reason (10.latest) the usual things like reduce cable animation, larger buffer size and so on.

my actual question is- what do you guys do when bouncing mixer channels to help free up system resources? as i understand it, just bouncing the channel and then muting the original doesnt free anything up, so you would have to bounce and then delete the original track/device and the accompanying midi/audio data with it to actually free up memory/cpu. this is problematic as i do like to continue to make small tweaks right along the way of producing and i hate to think i have to delete the original device and recording which i cant recover.

perhaps one way is to save the project to a new project file, bounce all the hungry channels and delete the original devices and continue on? at least that way you could go back to to the original project if needed and tweak and re-bounce if needed. is that what you guys do? would love to hear some ways.

Cheers lads

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Loque
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Posts: 11176
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

20 Jul 2018

Yes, that is what I do and I found my self really treat going back and rebounce.

One thing you can keep in mind fir geehrten performance is, that the most cpu intensive track creates your crackles, because this is calculated in serial and all related tracks too. Reverbs, polyphony and long synth release tails are expensive too.
Reason12, Win10

40charlton07
Posts: 12
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

20 Jul 2018

Loque wrote:
20 Jul 2018
Yes, that is what I do and I found my self really treat going back and rebounce.

One thing you can keep in mind fir geehrten performance is, that the most cpu intensive track creates your crackles, because this is calculated in serial and all related tracks too. Reverbs, polyphony and long synth release tails are expensive too.
thanks for the reply loque. yes, i think i would be the same - if i bounce and delete in the new project i think that would force me to accept that channel as it is and move on to more import things.. this is my biggest problem, when to just accept something as good enough and move on to the next bit of the project. cheers!

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Zac
Posts: 1784
Joined: 19 May 2016
Contact:

20 Jul 2018

Another thing you can do is before you delete the instrument chain you can put it into a combinator and save it. That way if you want to tweak it later you can reopen the combi and all you've lost are any mixer settings.

40charlton07
Posts: 12
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

20 Jul 2018

Zac wrote:
20 Jul 2018
Another thing you can do is before you delete the instrument chain you can put it into a combinator and save it. That way if you want to tweak it later you can reopen the combi and all you've lost are any mixer settings.
far out i never thought of that. such a great tip thanks my man!

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motuscott
Posts: 3422
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Contest Weiner

20 Jul 2018

I do what you and Loque do and save to a new version, keep them all in one project folder.
C'mon track freeze!
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Posts: 2871
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

20 Jul 2018

40charlton07 wrote:
20 Jul 2018
Zac wrote:
20 Jul 2018
Another thing you can do is before you delete the instrument chain you can put it into a combinator and save it. That way if you want to tweak it later you can reopen the combi and all you've lost are any mixer settings.
far out i never thought of that. such a great tip thanks my man!
Rather than deleting the combinator chain just replace it with a blank one as that will keep your channel settings, if you have a lot of inserts in the mix channel you can save that too (click on the show programmer and the option to load\save is there)..


PoohBear

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tibah
Posts: 903
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

20 Jul 2018

Since I use some heavy VSTs (mainly u-he Bazille) I can't confirm the issue to have to delete the original track to save up DSP. Having the muted clip on the original instrument and playing back the audio is 0 DSP on my end and for a synth like Bazille, the memory usage seems to be somewhat like 11 MB, so even keeping it in doesn't take up much memory.

But I can encourage you to make the final arrangement and mixing in a second project. Just trying to get used to it myself, mainly because to focus on the mixing and being able to finish more vs. always being able to change one tick on a filter envelope or 1% of the dry/wet mix on a delay etc. :)

jlgrimes
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

21 Jul 2018

40charlton07 wrote:
20 Jul 2018
Hi ReasonTalk users,

I have often gotten to a point where my projects get too big and start to pop/glitch with the DSP meter hitting its peak which seems to happen more when moving the mouse or scrolling through the project. i have tried lots of the usual stuff on my 2017 iMac with latest OSX like display tweaks and within reason (10.latest) the usual things like reduce cable animation, larger buffer size and so on.

my actual question is- what do you guys do when bouncing mixer channels to help free up system resources? as i understand it, just bouncing the channel and then muting the original doesnt free anything up, so you would have to bounce and then delete the original track/device and the accompanying midi/audio data with it to actually free up memory/cpu. this is problematic as i do like to continue to make small tweaks right along the way of producing and i hate to think i have to delete the original device and recording which i cant recover.

perhaps one way is to save the project to a new project file, bounce all the hungry channels and delete the original devices and continue on? at least that way you could go back to to the original project if needed and tweak and re-bounce if needed. is that what you guys do? would love to hear some ways.

Cheers lads
Muting a sequencer track typically does free up resources just not as much as deleting original devices.

Actually VSTS and VSTis can be disabled (if only REs could), so a bounce in place and then disable would basically be freezing almost.

Usually though muting sequencer track frees up enough to stop glitching.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
Posts: 662
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

21 Jul 2018

I will say "Offline Bounce" has come a long way from 10 years ago. If that was even in your DAW at the time. I would always get glitches, and it was extremely unreliable in the past. I spose I've just been in the habit of saving every song in it's various stage. Example "Turd song ver 1" - turd song with vocals 1.1 - turd song with ted on synths 2.0, and then bouncing every piece that was somewhat pleasing.

Eventually You had reliable stems and could go back to Absynth 1.5 if needed to make a revision. Yeah, those were the days, and I'm only 37. It was just Audio tracks and one VI Synth that could work at the same time. If You're were gonna get anything done, You had to make a commitment.

There's a great book for everyone regardless of any style, any age and any experience: It's called "Behind the Glass" by Howard Massey and I highly recommend it. Since being on the topic , there were Engineers with varying opinions on committing to EQ and Compression etc.

40charlton07
Posts: 12
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

22 Jul 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
20 Jul 2018


Rather than deleting the combinator chain just replace it with a blank one as that will keep your channel settings, if you have a lot of inserts in the mix channel you can save that too (click on the show programmer and the option to load\save is there)..


PoohBear
excellent tip, thank you!

40charlton07
Posts: 12
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

23 Jul 2018

tibah wrote:
20 Jul 2018

But I can encourage you to make the final arrangement and mixing in a second project. Just trying to get used to it myself, mainly because to focus on the mixing and being able to finish more vs. always being able to change one tick on a filter envelope or 1% of the dry/wet mix on a delay etc. :)
:lol: :lol: yes i completely agree, i have to try this as i do the same thing, forever tweaking the smallest settings and never actually finishing a song :thumbs_up:

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raymondh
Posts: 1776
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

23 Jul 2018

The silver lining to all this extra workflow, is that bouncing to audio tracks and clips can be fun processing the audio further in ways that would not be as easy with the plug-in / instrument / MIDI tracks.

Bounce in place is particularly handy.

Even simple things like fade in/outs, reversing etc. Something I like is taking a lush part with reverb and delays, and then having it all end suddenly in a transition rather than the decay tails muddying up the next part of a song arrangement. Piece of cake to truncate the audio clip at the perfect place.

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Ahornberg
Posts: 1904
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

23 Jul 2018

Bounce in place is like working with a tape machine. It forces on working with audio rather editing MIDI clips to the death. It speeds up my whole workflow. After bouncing, I usually delete the instrument and FX chain to get rid of the option to go back.

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