Re: What features are REALLY necessary for Reason 11
Posted: 27 Jun 2018
Keeping things simple shouldn't always be the developer's priority. But I think we've already discussed that elsewhere
Keeping things simple shouldn't always be the developer's priority. But I think we've already discussed that elsewhere
If you load new sample to the pad, it should stay intact. If you however load new Kong preset, then obviously it disappears as - technically - you've deleted old Kong and replaced it with a new one.
It's called Mute Groups - page #622 of the Manual (http://cdn.propellerheads.se/Reason10/M ... Manual.pdf)
The concern would be to avoid “unhappy paths” (like I metioned with Pro Tools audio files), rather than to reduce complexity. Ultimately good design simplifies things while adding (or not sacrificing) functionality.antic604 wrote:Keeping things simple shouldn't always be the developer's priority. But I think we've already discussed that elsewhere
Yes, and that's on PT devs. Live or Bitwig have "collect & save" which copies all samples, presets and M4L devices to the project's sub-folder, thus making sure nothing will be missing when you move it or archive it. Obviously there are still "stubborn" people that will move just the project file and not the whole folder, in which case Reason's self-contained file is superior.selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018The ultimate concern would be to avoid “unhappy paths” (like I metioned with Pro Tools audio files), rather than to reduce complexity. Ultimately good design simplifies things while adding functionality.antic604 wrote:
Keeping things simple shouldn't always be the developer's priority. But I think we've already discussed that elsewhere
That’s one possible takeaway, for sure!antic604 wrote:Yes, and that's on PT devs. Live or Bitwig have "collect & save" which copies all samples, presets and M4L devices to the project's sub-folder, thus making sure nothing will be missing when you move it or archive it. Obviously there are still "stubborn" people that will move just the project file and not the whole folder, in which case Reason's self-contained file is superior.
So my takeaway from this is - Reason devs think we're stupid
Yeah that's my take as well. Would be nice to have the choice though. It's not urgent, but I do find myself bouncing/exporting more often than I want.selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018
The main takeaway I would assume is that Reason is designed for the more casual (not necessarily less professional) user that would rather spend their limited time on production than on file management. Not that I agree with their decisions in many cases, I’m just suggesting that this may be their target audience rather than full time users (either pro or hobbyists).
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In my experience, I don’t often have a single audio file for a track like vocals, which is more typically made up of multiple takes. So even when working in Pro Tools and exporting a vocal, I first need to bounce to create a single file. Sound familiar? It’s also what I would have to do in Reason…C//AZM wrote:Yeah that's my take as well. Would be nice to have the choice though. It's not urgent, but I do find myself bouncing/exporting more often than I want.selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018
The main takeaway I would assume is that Reason is designed for the more casual (not necessarily less professional) user that would rather spend their limited time on production than on file management. Not that I agree with their decisions in many cases, I’m just suggesting that this may be their target audience rather than full time users (either pro or hobbyists).
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Thanks, geesh I forgot all about mute groups. I learned it then promptly forgot back when Kong came out.antic604 wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018If you load new sample to the pad, it should stay intact. If you however load new Kong preset, then obviously it disappears as - technically - you've deleted old Kong and replaced it with a new one.
It's called Mute Groups - page #622 of the Manual (http://cdn.propellerheads.se/Reason10/M ... Manual.pdf)
LOL Yes!!selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018In my experience, I don’t often have a single audio file for a track like vocals, which is more typically made up of multiple takes. So even when working in Pro Tools and exporting a vocal, I first need to bounce to create a single file. Sound familiar? It’s also what I would have to do in Reason…C//AZM wrote:
Yeah that's my take as well. Would be nice to have the choice though. It's not urgent, but I do find myself bouncing/exporting more often than I want.
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So consolidate or export, your choice (unless you get that lucky single take)!C//AZM wrote:LOL Yes!!selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018In my experience, I don’t often have a single audio file for a track like vocals, which is more typically made up of multiple takes. So even when working in Pro Tools and exporting a vocal, I first need to bounce to create a single file. Sound familiar? It’s also what I would have to do in Reason…
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But I'm horrifically old school. I "consolidate all" in Protools and rarely work with playlists while cutting vocals, just one full take, then another on another track... then I comp by section,not phrase or line, then consolidate so the file is one big file. I did playlists all the time but now that I'm older, and out of the full time studio game, I have a different approach. People send vocalists to my comfortable home setup and I'm known for coaxing great vox trks out of singers. But we put in 4X times the time practicing and prep before I hit record. By the time the red light is on, it's a few takes and done.
selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018My guess for why reason has a single self-contained file (by default) is that reason used to encourage people to upload song files. Eg in previous props forum, there was even a section to upload them.antic604 wrote:
The main takeaway I would assume is that Reason is designed for the more casual (not necessarily less professional) user that would rather spend their limited time on production than on file management. Not that I agree with their decisions in many cases, I’m just suggesting that this may be their target audience rather than full time users (either pro or
So it made sense back then since reason only had built-in instruments. And the default was to embed samples as part of the main file.
I think everything was optimized for sharing.
Now with Re store and vsts, it makes a bit less sense I guess.
It's for when I want to use Reason for mixing a song from raw tracks. It simply takes a lot of hard disk space when saving revisions.selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018As for #2:
Reason can already export audio easily, so one can already save audio files outside the bundle file.
I wonder if when folks request this what they are really wanting is to save the SONG DATA outside the bundle? This would allow saving multiple versions of a song in progress, collaborate easier (updated song files are quicker to share if they don't contain the audio files), and importing/exporting song data between songs (for mixer setting exchange, etc).
Or is it really just the audio files you want access to?
What about the option to save versions within the song file? Would keep things more “as they are” (usually how the Props like to operate), and solve this problem (which I share).PeterP wrote:It's for when I want to use Reason for mixing a song from raw tracks. It simply takes a lot of hard disk space when saving revisions.selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018As for #2:
Reason can already export audio easily, so one can already save audio files outside the bundle file.
I wonder if when folks request this what they are really wanting is to save the SONG DATA outside the bundle? This would allow saving multiple versions of a song in progress, collaborate easier (updated song files are quicker to share if they don't contain the audio files), and importing/exporting song data between songs (for mixer setting exchange, etc).
Or is it really just the audio files you want access to?
Just a simple checkbox to keep imported wav files as links instead of copied into the project bundle.
I subscribe to NailTheMix and PureMix so I get access to a lot of commercial songs as raw tracks for training purposes. I can't remember the last time I saw a song with less than 40 tracks, many are close to 100. All in 48kHz, 24 bit, 4-5 minutes. It adds up to many gigabytes.
Yes, that would work as well.selig wrote: ↑28 Jun 2018What about the option to save versions within the song file? Would keep things more “as they are” (usually how the Props like to operate), and solve this problem (which I share).PeterP wrote:
It's for when I want to use Reason for mixing a song from raw tracks. It simply takes a lot of hard disk space when saving revisions.
Just a simple checkbox to keep imported wav files as links instead of copied into the project bundle.
I subscribe to NailTheMix and PureMix so I get access to a lot of commercial songs as raw tracks for training purposes. I can't remember the last time I saw a song with less than 40 tracks, many are close to 100. All in 48kHz, 24 bit, 4-5 minutes. It adds up to many gigabytes.
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My biggest complaint is that these kids have no venues to perform and hone their craft, at least in the past, most R&B singers were in the church choir... there's no such thing as development deals, or unknown opening acts or local bars who would pay you $200 to play on Friday night. These very talented acts are at a severe disadvantage.selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018So consolidate or export, your choice (unless you get that lucky single take)!C//AZM wrote: LOL Yes!!
But I'm horrifically old school. I "consolidate all" in Protools and rarely work with playlists while cutting vocals, just one full take, then another on another track... then I comp by section,not phrase or line, then consolidate so the file is one big file. I did playlists all the time but now that I'm older, and out of the full time studio game, I have a different approach. People send vocalists to my comfortable home setup and I'm known for coaxing great vox trks out of singers. But we put in 4X times the time practicing and prep before I hit record. By the time the red light is on, it's a few takes and done.
An alternative point of view:
I find one of the very best things for any musician with any talent is to play back their performance for them to hear what they actually sound like. This is assuming the talent knows the basics, of course, and if not then yes it’s best to work them “offline” at first. When I do this, or when someone does it for me, you pretty much don’t have to say anything in most cases.
I do agree there’s no substitute for good coaching and “direction” in the studio.
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That is so eerily similar to how I’ve worked with new/young artists when I moved away from Nashville to Utah. In Nashville I was lucky to work with singers that already knew how to sing, so I had no experience with talented beginners. I had to hire a vocal coach to do the “heavy lifting” for those sessions, since I’d never had to do that in the past!C//AZM wrote:My biggest complaint is that these kids have no venues to perform and hone their craft, at least in the past, most R&B singers were in the church choir... there's no such thing as development deals, or unknown opening acts or local bars who would pay you $200 to play on Friday night. These very talented acts are at a severe disadvantage.selig wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018So consolidate or export, your choice (unless you get that lucky single take)!
An alternative point of view:
I find one of the very best things for any musician with any talent is to play back their performance for them to hear what they actually sound like. This is assuming the talent knows the basics, of course, and if not then yes it’s best to work them “offline” at first. When I do this, or when someone does it for me, you pretty much don’t have to say anything in most cases.
I do agree there’s no substitute for good coaching and “direction” in the studio.
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This one young lady has a deal with a sub portion of Sony-RCA(or whatever it's called) and is a great raw talent, but she 's quite technically unprepared, limited knowledge of how to breath properly, arch through phrases, build to the chorus, ad lib appropriately... all things you normally should've worked out through playing with others and gigs. But she's a bad ass mofo and can singe her butt off.
First thing I do for that type of raw artist is sing through the lead part...punch-in each line or phrase, tune it, change notes and what not. Next is all the bkgs stacks, follows etc...and maybe a few extra ideas... Then give em an mp3 and tell them to practice with that heavily tuned and edited take till next session. Sometimes this means scheduling a time to call and have them sing through the song via phone, making suggestions as we go along. Next session or two is as I described above; work, arrange, explore coach, ego massage, confidence build, and lots of blood pumping, lung blasting aerobics.
Then it's usually three or four complete takes on the lead and done.