What features are REALLY necessary for Reason 11

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antic604

27 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
I always assumed it was to keep things simple. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had to “rescue” new Pro Tools users who have audio files scattered all over the place back in the early days.
Keeping things simple shouldn't always be the developer's priority. But I think we've already discussed that elsewhere ;)

antic604

27 Jun 2018

C//AZM wrote:
27 Jun 2018
If I pan and route a Kong pad to an output, then change the sound, the pad should still be routed to that output.
If you load new sample to the pad, it should stay intact. If you however load new Kong preset, then obviously it disappears as - technically - you've deleted old Kong and replaced it with a new one.
C//AZM wrote:
27 Jun 2018
also...- I'm sure this is on me but- I haven't figured out how to make one sound choke another as in closed HH will choke an open one.
It's called Mute Groups - page #622 of the Manual (http://cdn.propellerheads.se/Reason10/M ... Manual.pdf)

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selig
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27 Jun 2018

antic604 wrote:
selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
I always assumed it was to keep things simple. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had to “rescue” new Pro Tools users who have audio files scattered all over the place back in the early days.
Keeping things simple shouldn't always be the developer's priority. But I think we've already discussed that elsewhere ;)
The concern would be to avoid “unhappy paths” (like I metioned with Pro Tools audio files), rather than to reduce complexity. Ultimately good design simplifies things while adding (or not sacrificing) functionality.


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antic604

27 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
antic604 wrote:
Keeping things simple shouldn't always be the developer's priority. But I think we've already discussed that elsewhere ;)
The ultimate concern would be to avoid “unhappy paths” (like I metioned with Pro Tools audio files), rather than to reduce complexity. Ultimately good design simplifies things while adding functionality.
Yes, and that's on PT devs. Live or Bitwig have "collect & save" which copies all samples, presets and M4L devices to the project's sub-folder, thus making sure nothing will be missing when you move it or archive it. Obviously there are still "stubborn" people that will move just the project file and not the whole folder, in which case Reason's self-contained file is superior.

So my takeaway from this is - Reason devs think we're stupid ;) :D

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esselfortium
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27 Jun 2018

If people accidentally messing with project folders is really a concern, a simple solution to that would be to use compressed archives similar to the .pk3 files and similar used by some game engines, which are actually just renamed zip files. The result is a file that doesn't look like something you need to decompress, but you can decompress it using any standard zip tool if you want to dig into its contents. This is pretty common and it'd be sensible for a DAW file format.

Though just using folders would be fine too :puf_wink:
Sarah Mancuso
My music: Future Human

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selig
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27 Jun 2018

antic604 wrote:
selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
The ultimate concern would be to avoid “unhappy paths” (like I metioned with Pro Tools audio files), rather than to reduce complexity. Ultimately good design simplifies things while adding functionality.
Yes, and that's on PT devs. Live or Bitwig have "collect & save" which copies all samples, presets and M4L devices to the project's sub-folder, thus making sure nothing will be missing when you move it or archive it. Obviously there are still "stubborn" people that will move just the project file and not the whole folder, in which case Reason's self-contained file is superior.

So my takeaway from this is - Reason devs think we're stupid ;) :D
That’s one possible takeaway, for sure! ;)
Saving time is another.

The main takeaway I would assume is that Reason is designed for the more casual (not necessarily less professional) user that would rather spend their limited time on production than on file management. Not that I agree with their decisions in many cases, I’m just suggesting that this may be their target audience rather than full time users (either pro or hobbyists).


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C//AZM
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27 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018


The main takeaway I would assume is that Reason is designed for the more casual (not necessarily less professional) user that would rather spend their limited time on production than on file management. Not that I agree with their decisions in many cases, I’m just suggesting that this may be their target audience rather than full time users (either pro or hobbyists).


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Yeah that's my take as well. Would be nice to have the choice though. It's not urgent, but I do find myself bouncing/exporting more often than I want.

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selig
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27 Jun 2018

C//AZM wrote:
selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018


The main takeaway I would assume is that Reason is designed for the more casual (not necessarily less professional) user that would rather spend their limited time on production than on file management. Not that I agree with their decisions in many cases, I’m just suggesting that this may be their target audience rather than full time users (either pro or hobbyists).


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Yeah that's my take as well. Would be nice to have the choice though. It's not urgent, but I do find myself bouncing/exporting more often than I want.
In my experience, I don’t often have a single audio file for a track like vocals, which is more typically made up of multiple takes. So even when working in Pro Tools and exporting a vocal, I first need to bounce to create a single file. Sound familiar? It’s also what I would have to do in Reason… ;)


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C//AZM
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27 Jun 2018

antic604 wrote:
27 Jun 2018
C//AZM wrote:
27 Jun 2018
If I pan and route a Kong pad to an output, then change the sound, the pad should still be routed to that output.
If you load new sample to the pad, it should stay intact. If you however load new Kong preset, then obviously it disappears as - technically - you've deleted old Kong and replaced it with a new one.
C//AZM wrote:
27 Jun 2018
also...- I'm sure this is on me but- I haven't figured out how to make one sound choke another as in closed HH will choke an open one.
It's called Mute Groups - page #622 of the Manual (http://cdn.propellerheads.se/Reason10/M ... Manual.pdf)
Thanks, geesh I forgot all about mute groups. I learned it then promptly forgot back when Kong came out.
I always load sounds individually into each pad and I've had the problem of having to re-route the newly loaded sound.

Also, the pan/route method is ancient. The ability to route to mono outputs without panning would be great time.
It would be nice to not have to expand the Kong to get to the assignment window. Command click the pad and get the option of outputs 1,2,1-2, 3,4,3-4...etc

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C//AZM
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27 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
C//AZM wrote:
Yeah that's my take as well. Would be nice to have the choice though. It's not urgent, but I do find myself bouncing/exporting more often than I want.
In my experience, I don’t often have a single audio file for a track like vocals, which is more typically made up of multiple takes. So even when working in Pro Tools and exporting a vocal, I first need to bounce to create a single file. Sound familiar? It’s also what I would have to do in Reason… ;)


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LOL Yes!!

But I'm horrifically old school. I "consolidate all" in Protools and rarely work with playlists while cutting vocals, just one full take, then another on another track... then I comp by section,not phrase or line, then consolidate so the file is one big file. I did playlists all the time but now that I'm older, and out of the full time studio game, I have a different approach. People send vocalists to my comfortable home setup and I'm known for coaxing great vox trks out of singers. But we put in 4X times the time practicing and prep before I hit record. By the time the red light is on, it's a few takes and done.

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selig
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27 Jun 2018

C//AZM wrote:
selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
In my experience, I don’t often have a single audio file for a track like vocals, which is more typically made up of multiple takes. So even when working in Pro Tools and exporting a vocal, I first need to bounce to create a single file. Sound familiar? It’s also what I would have to do in Reason… ;)


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LOL Yes!!

But I'm horrifically old school. I "consolidate all" in Protools and rarely work with playlists while cutting vocals, just one full take, then another on another track... then I comp by section,not phrase or line, then consolidate so the file is one big file. I did playlists all the time but now that I'm older, and out of the full time studio game, I have a different approach. People send vocalists to my comfortable home setup and I'm known for coaxing great vox trks out of singers. But we put in 4X times the time practicing and prep before I hit record. By the time the red light is on, it's a few takes and done.
So consolidate or export, your choice (unless you get that lucky single take)! ;)

An alternative point of view:
I find one of the very best things for any musician with any talent is to play back their performance for them to hear what they actually sound like. This is assuming the talent knows the basics, of course, and if not then yes it’s best to work them “offline” at first. When I do this, or when someone does it for me, you pretty much don’t have to say anything in most cases.

I do agree there’s no substitute for good coaching and “direction” in the studio.


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groggy1
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27 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
antic604 wrote:
The main takeaway I would assume is that Reason is designed for the more casual (not necessarily less professional) user that would rather spend their limited time on production than on file management. Not that I agree with their decisions in many cases, I’m just suggesting that this may be their target audience rather than full time users (either pro or
My guess for why reason has a single self-contained file (by default) is that reason used to encourage people to upload song files. Eg in previous props forum, there was even a section to upload them.

So it made sense back then since reason only had built-in instruments. And the default was to embed samples as part of the main file.

I think everything was optimized for sharing.


Now with Re store and vsts, it makes a bit less sense I guess.

Bes
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27 Jun 2018

a bigger (tabbed) mod matrix in our combinator
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PeterP
Posts: 84
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

28 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
PeterP wrote:
27 Jun 2018
1. Midi comp mode, or at least cycle record that automatically creates a new lane and mutes the last one.

2. Option to save audio files outside the project bundle file.

3. Folder tracks for both sequencer and mixer.
As for #2:
Reason can already export audio easily, so one can already save audio files outside the bundle file.

I wonder if when folks request this what they are really wanting is to save the SONG DATA outside the bundle? This would allow saving multiple versions of a song in progress, collaborate easier (updated song files are quicker to share if they don't contain the audio files), and importing/exporting song data between songs (for mixer setting exchange, etc).

Or is it really just the audio files you want access to?
It's for when I want to use Reason for mixing a song from raw tracks. It simply takes a lot of hard disk space when saving revisions.

Just a simple checkbox to keep imported wav files as links instead of copied into the project bundle.

I subscribe to NailTheMix and PureMix so I get access to a lot of commercial songs as raw tracks for training purposes. I can't remember the last time I saw a song with less than 40 tracks, many are close to 100. All in 48kHz, 24 bit, 4-5 minutes. It adds up to many gigabytes.

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selig
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28 Jun 2018

PeterP wrote:
selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
As for #2:
Reason can already export audio easily, so one can already save audio files outside the bundle file.

I wonder if when folks request this what they are really wanting is to save the SONG DATA outside the bundle? This would allow saving multiple versions of a song in progress, collaborate easier (updated song files are quicker to share if they don't contain the audio files), and importing/exporting song data between songs (for mixer setting exchange, etc).

Or is it really just the audio files you want access to?
It's for when I want to use Reason for mixing a song from raw tracks. It simply takes a lot of hard disk space when saving revisions.

Just a simple checkbox to keep imported wav files as links instead of copied into the project bundle.

I subscribe to NailTheMix and PureMix so I get access to a lot of commercial songs as raw tracks for training purposes. I can't remember the last time I saw a song with less than 40 tracks, many are close to 100. All in 48kHz, 24 bit, 4-5 minutes. It adds up to many gigabytes.
What about the option to save versions within the song file? Would keep things more “as they are” (usually how the Props like to operate), and solve this problem (which I share).


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PeterP
Posts: 84
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28 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
28 Jun 2018
PeterP wrote:
It's for when I want to use Reason for mixing a song from raw tracks. It simply takes a lot of hard disk space when saving revisions.

Just a simple checkbox to keep imported wav files as links instead of copied into the project bundle.

I subscribe to NailTheMix and PureMix so I get access to a lot of commercial songs as raw tracks for training purposes. I can't remember the last time I saw a song with less than 40 tracks, many are close to 100. All in 48kHz, 24 bit, 4-5 minutes. It adds up to many gigabytes.
What about the option to save versions within the song file? Would keep things more “as they are” (usually how the Props like to operate), and solve this problem (which I share).


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Yes, that would work as well.

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Micha1973
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28 Jun 2018

I think of a better audiostretch Engine and a wablab"like" Engine in reason. Nothing more. :reason:
Music Is My Life
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Reason 12 sounds better :essentials:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsW3Wr ... gA05XklBng

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C//AZM
Posts: 366
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28 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
C//AZM wrote: LOL Yes!!

But I'm horrifically old school. I "consolidate all" in Protools and rarely work with playlists while cutting vocals, just one full take, then another on another track... then I comp by section,not phrase or line, then consolidate so the file is one big file. I did playlists all the time but now that I'm older, and out of the full time studio game, I have a different approach. People send vocalists to my comfortable home setup and I'm known for coaxing great vox trks out of singers. But we put in 4X times the time practicing and prep before I hit record. By the time the red light is on, it's a few takes and done.
So consolidate or export, your choice (unless you get that lucky single take)! ;)

An alternative point of view:
I find one of the very best things for any musician with any talent is to play back their performance for them to hear what they actually sound like. This is assuming the talent knows the basics, of course, and if not then yes it’s best to work them “offline” at first. When I do this, or when someone does it for me, you pretty much don’t have to say anything in most cases.

I do agree there’s no substitute for good coaching and “direction” in the studio.


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My biggest complaint is that these kids have no venues to perform and hone their craft, at least in the past, most R&B singers were in the church choir... there's no such thing as development deals, or unknown opening acts or local bars who would pay you $200 to play on Friday night. These very talented acts are at a severe disadvantage.

This one young lady has a deal with a sub portion of Sony-RCA(or whatever it's called) and is a great raw talent, but she 's quite technically unprepared, limited knowledge of how to breath properly, arch through phrases, build to the chorus, ad lib appropriately... all things you normally should've worked out through playing with others and gigs. But she's a bad ass mofo and can singe her butt off.

First thing I do for that type of raw artist is sing through the lead part...punch-in each line or phrase, tune it, change notes and what not. Next is all the bkgs stacks, follows etc...and maybe a few extra ideas... Then give em an mp3 and tell them to practice with that heavily tuned and edited take till next session. Sometimes this means scheduling a time to call and have them sing through the song via phone, making suggestions as we go along. Next session or two is as I described above; work, arrange, explore coach, ego massage, confidence build, and lots of blood pumping, lung blasting aerobics.

Then it's usually three or four complete takes on the lead and done.

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vondersulzburg
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Location: Stuttgart

29 Jun 2018

From my point of hobbyist view:

- full support of apple loops including time-signature and root key recognition and auto transpose as logic and garageband does. All information is easy to read out as several other programs show.

this leads automatically to my next point

- root key for songs and a transpose track
- a chord track

- better integration of blocks with the possibility of versions
- support of gestures e.g. 2 finger zoom in the sequenzer
- foldable and key mapped piano roll
- midi support with channels so I can use sundog
- a kind of live pad (as a player?) as Sequel from Steinberg had. There I could map parts of the song to keys eg. blocks could be a option. Sequel had a track where the "playing" of these pads was recorded, (could be edited or created manual as well). Trigger was by tick, bar....
After finishing I could extract that recorded sequence as a song.

Michael
MacBook Air 512GB SSD 16GB RAM, Reason 11 Suite, LogicProX, FL-Studio, Live10Suite

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selig
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29 Jun 2018

C//AZM wrote:
selig wrote:
27 Jun 2018
So consolidate or export, your choice (unless you get that lucky single take)! ;)

An alternative point of view:
I find one of the very best things for any musician with any talent is to play back their performance for them to hear what they actually sound like. This is assuming the talent knows the basics, of course, and if not then yes it’s best to work them “offline” at first. When I do this, or when someone does it for me, you pretty much don’t have to say anything in most cases.

I do agree there’s no substitute for good coaching and “direction” in the studio.


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My biggest complaint is that these kids have no venues to perform and hone their craft, at least in the past, most R&B singers were in the church choir... there's no such thing as development deals, or unknown opening acts or local bars who would pay you $200 to play on Friday night. These very talented acts are at a severe disadvantage.

This one young lady has a deal with a sub portion of Sony-RCA(or whatever it's called) and is a great raw talent, but she 's quite technically unprepared, limited knowledge of how to breath properly, arch through phrases, build to the chorus, ad lib appropriately... all things you normally should've worked out through playing with others and gigs. But she's a bad ass mofo and can singe her butt off.

First thing I do for that type of raw artist is sing through the lead part...punch-in each line or phrase, tune it, change notes and what not. Next is all the bkgs stacks, follows etc...and maybe a few extra ideas... Then give em an mp3 and tell them to practice with that heavily tuned and edited take till next session. Sometimes this means scheduling a time to call and have them sing through the song via phone, making suggestions as we go along. Next session or two is as I described above; work, arrange, explore coach, ego massage, confidence build, and lots of blood pumping, lung blasting aerobics.

Then it's usually three or four complete takes on the lead and done.
That is so eerily similar to how I’ve worked with new/young artists when I moved away from Nashville to Utah. In Nashville I was lucky to work with singers that already knew how to sing, so I had no experience with talented beginners. I had to hire a vocal coach to do the “heavy lifting” for those sessions, since I’d never had to do that in the past!

Again this supports how letting an artist listen to their performance to learn what is right/wrong, which takes less time than trying to describe how it should sound in words!
:)


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devilfish
Posts: 183
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29 Jun 2018

Combinator with limitless user interface!
Add as much rows with buttons, faders and knobs as you like !
Limitless high !
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spencer335
Posts: 59
Joined: 25 Jun 2015

29 Jun 2018

Nobody is mentioning video? Basic video scoring features (e.g. a marker track) are the only thing that keep me from going to a 100% Reason workflow.

EnGee
Posts: 20
Joined: 05 Mar 2018

30 Jun 2018

- Bigger GUI and fonts suitable for 2k/4k monitors.
- Midi review in the browser according to the highlighted instrument.

Windows 10 with Reason Studio 12, Live Suite 11, Bitwig Studio 4, Studio One Pro v5 and Cubase 12 Pro

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tt_lab
Posts: 335
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

30 Jun 2018

I would love to see, eventhough I think it is not primordial, a built in RE manager, where we can update download and delete REs inside of reason without having to restart it. Maybe even a shop inside reason...like a lot of phone apps do.

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raveled
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01 Jul 2018

Updated Blocks or a new kind of arrangement tool. Though I've never worked in FL Studio, it seems very easy to arrange a song in that program (from what I've seen). Something similar in Reason would be fun!

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