Processing Single Overhead Drum Mic

[Ejectzero]

Dear All,

I am recording my rock band using my very sparse gear collection. All went well, only hitch I have is with the drums. I am sharing my workflow, hoping that it might provide you with ideas and also hoping that you can perhaps assist me further.

I recorded using 2 mics only (with Balance audio interface):
1) a Rode NT2-A overhead placed between crash and rise, aimed cardioid-mode at the snare.
2) a cheap dynamic practice mic (auditioned the ones we had and use the best) on the kick, placed in the middle outside (best sound IMO).

I have bounced the snare and kick to midi and used individual snare and kick recordings for those - I am happy, is sounds good.
The Snare disappeared the moment our drummer used his crash - hence the snare dub.
The Kick was muddy from the start - Picked up the crash and snare. Gated and eq'ed those out easily but I missed the click and upper presence of the kick. I use both the recording and the midi kick in the mix and am very happy with results.

Okay so here is my rack, two pictures.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12pJa6 ... AiQHSJTbVz
1) 3 instances of standard EQ device to attenuate the snare, cymbals and kick (already removed first redundant eq and just added 20hz filter in second eq).
2) Stereo widening using the haas effect. Here I need the most help - this causes something that sounds like phasing.
3) Tape compression + Compression + Limiter to even out dynamics.
Open the Gdrive https://drive.google.com/open?id=12pJa6 ... AiQHSJTbVz

Thanks in advance,
EZ

[jimmyklane]

#2 is your problem.
Using Haas delays on something as findemental as drums isn’t going to work all that well. My suggestion is to try a very short, dark room instead, put mostly snare with a little cymbal and a tiny amount of kick. Adjust balance to taste. Otherwise you’re stuck with mono drums.

Hint: when working with one mic, try looking over the drummer’s right shoulder with the mic....just high enough that he won’t hit it with sticks or boday. This will make the cymbals a bit off-axis, which should stop you’re snare from getting swamped every crash.

[normen]

If those were placed properly you _should_ get around with that. Just don't try to get a fat solo drum sound, try to make the drums sound good in the mix with the few choices you have. I'd remove all processing to begin with and do it in the rest of the mix as long as possible.

I actually like to mike drums with only three mics, one bass drum, one omni smack in the middle between the toms, bass drum and snare (heavily compressed) and one overhead (or two depending on how wide you need the drums). That even works great for live drums where you want to keep an "acoustic" feel. But yeah, you need that omni to get that thump from the snare and toms.

Edit: Btw, can't access those folders

[Ejectzero]

Thanks normen and jimmyklane!

Sometimes it's good to verbalise your problems. Since mentioned I moved away from the haas completely.
Stumbled accross this: https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2014/08/1 ... onclusion/
I created a parallel channel for overheads and phased/panned it. Works well enough.
Will also experiment with a reverb to create stereo.

[selig]

#2 is your problem.
Using Haas delays on something as findemental as drums isn’t going to work all that well. My suggestion is to try a very short, dark room instead, put mostly snare with a little cymbal and a tiny amount of kick. Adjust balance to taste. Otherwise you’re stuck with mono drums.

Hint: when working with one mic, try looking over the drummer’s right shoulder with the mic....just high enough that he won’t hit it with sticks or boday. This will make the cymbals a bit off-axis, which should stop you’re snare from getting swamped every crash.

Many years ago I spent a week with my kit and one (Lawson L47) microphone, moving it around and recording to see if there was one position better than the rest.

Ended up with it over my right shoulder, aimed slightly down at the kick beater/snare, with my head blocking the hi hat and the cymbals off axis.

Interesting you would mention that position!

For a two mic setup I’d use that “over shoulder” with a mic inside the kick (will cut down on cymbal bleed and increase presence/beater attack).

Wrote an article on minimal drum micing for the Props a few years back, which still applies now. Covers recording drums at home with anywhere from 1-4 mics (and beyond).

https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/reco ... ome-studio

Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

[jimmyklane]

#2 is your problem.
Using Haas delays on something as findemental as drums isn’t going to work all that well. My suggestion is to try a very short, dark room instead, put mostly snare with a little cymbal and a tiny amount of kick. Adjust balance to taste. Otherwise you’re stuck with mono drums.

Hint: when working with one mic, try looking over the drummer’s right shoulder with the mic....just high enough that he won’t hit it with sticks or boday. This will make the cymbals a bit off-axis, which should stop you’re snare from getting swamped every crash.

Many years ago I spent a week with my kit and one (Lawson L47) microphone, moving it around and recording to see if there was one position better than the rest.

Ended up with it over my right shoulder, aimed slightly down at the kick beater/snare, with my head blocking the hi hat and the cymbals off axis.

Interesting you would mention that position!

For a two mic setup I’d use that “over shoulder” with a mic inside the kick (will cut down on cymbal bleed and increase presence/beater attack).

Wrote an article on minimal drum micing for the Props a few years back, which still applies now. Covers recording drums at home with anywhere from 1-4 mics (and beyond).

https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/reco ... ome-studio

Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

Us old dogs have all the good tricks

[hurricane]

Us old dogs have all the good tricks

I'm so jealous you guys know this stuff. I want to know this stuff!

[Ejectzero]

I'm going to record again today - will definitely use the "over the shoulder" location. Thanks Selig and jimmyklane. In retrospect, putting the mic in the kick does definitely make sense now! Thanks for that! I read the article thanks Selig!

Removing the haas definitely fixed my phasing problem on the overheads. I am sticking with the parallel channels phased differently and panned hard left and right.

[selig]

I'm going to record again today - will definitely use the "over the shoulder" location. Thanks Selig and jimmyklane. In retrospect, putting the mic in the kick does definitely make sense now! Thanks for that! I read the article thanks Selig!

Removing the haas definitely fixed my phasing problem on the overheads. I am sticking with the parallel channels phased differently and panned hard left and right.

Good luck with your recording!

I will only suggest that maybe you don’t need stereo drums, and that if you DO go that route using a parallel channel to also try using the stereo imager if just for the fact you can affect only the higher frequencies (so things won’t change as much when collapsed to mono).



Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

[Ejectzero]

Thanks Selig!

[jimmyklane]

Selig’s article is good advice. As he stated above, there is a charm about drums in mono.

How is the room? When you go in there and clap your hands do you like the sound of it? There are some other ways to use a 2-mic setup that involve a kick mic and the “kit mic” that are a little more ambient in terms of capturing room tone.

Also, is there any way to use 3 mics? If there is, let me know and I’ll share some other tricks....LedZepplin used a three-mic technique that works really well and gives you the nice stereo image you’re looking for while keeping the snare dead center.

Let me know?

[selig]

Selig’s article is good advice. As he stated above, there is a charm about drums in mono.

How is the room? When you go in there and clap your hands do you like the sound of it? There are some other ways to use a 2-mic setup that involve a kick mic and the “kit mic” that are a little more ambient in terms of capturing room tone.

Also, is there any way to use 3 mics? If there is, let me know and I’ll share some other tricks....LedZepplin used a three-mic technique that works really well and gives you the nice stereo image you’re looking for while keeping the snare dead center.

Let me know?

I covered a 4 mic variation of the Glyn Johns technique (where he adds a snare mic), plus the related the "Recorderman" technique in the article, but there are plenty of further variations on both techniques!

[jimmyklane]

Selig’s article is good advice. As he stated above, there is a charm about drums in mono.

How is the room? When you go in there and clap your hands do you like the sound of it? There are some other ways to use a 2-mic setup that involve a kick mic and the “kit mic” that are a little more ambient in terms of capturing room tone.

Also, is there any way to use 3 mics? If there is, let me know and I’ll share some other tricks....LedZepplin used a three-mic technique that works really well and gives you the nice stereo image you’re looking for while keeping the snare dead center.

Let me know?

I covered a 4 mic variation of the Glyn Johns technique (where he adds a snare mic), plus the related the "Recorderman" technique in the article, but there are plenty of further variations on both techniques!

Right, my exact setup is a matched pair (if possible, but unmatched mics work surprisingly well!) of “pencil” small diaphragm condensers set to cardioid. Use the drummers sticks and measure two stick heights up directly from the snare drum, pan this hard left. Take the same two drum sticks and measure diagonally to the drummers right shoulder. Pan this hard right. Place a mic...a large diaphragm dynamic like the Shure Beta52 is good here....into the hole in the kick drum, but here you really need to use your ears. You’ll be pointing it slightly to the side, not directly facing the beater because this way you’ll avoid plosives and also get a little “shell tone” from the drum. I’m assuming you’ve already got a damped kick (pillows/blankets touching the inside of the batter head or one of the rings that goes around the outside of the batter head.

Using this technique, the hats and snare should be balanced provided the drummer isn’t mashing them, and you’ll get the toms panned pretty well from the drummer’s perspective.

I can walk you through in more detail if you like. This is a variation on the Glyn Johns and Recorderman techniques...I didn’t make it up, sad to say

[selig]

I covered a 4 mic variation of the Glyn Johns technique (where he adds a snare mic), plus the related the "Recorderman" technique in the article, but there are plenty of further variations on both techniques!

Right, my exact setup is a matched pair (if possible, but unmatched mics work surprisingly well!) of “pencil” small diaphragm condensers set to cardioid. Use the drummers sticks and measure two stick heights up directly from the snare drum, pan this hard left. Take the same two drum sticks and measure diagonally to the drummers right shoulder. Pan this hard right. Place a mic...a large diaphragm dynamic like the Shure Beta52 is good here....into the hole in the kick drum, but here you really need to use your ears. You’ll be pointing it slightly to the side, not directly facing the beater because this way you’ll avoid plosives and also get a little “shell tone” from the drum. I’m assuming you’ve already got a damped kick (pillows/blankets touching the inside of the batter head or one of the rings that goes around the outside of the batter head.

Using this technique, the hats and snare should be balanced provided the drummer isn’t mashing them, and you’ll get the toms panned pretty well from the drummer’s perspective.

I can walk you through in more detail if you like. This is a variation on the Glyn Johns and Recorderman techniques...I didn’t make it up, sad to say

Here's a hilarious classic Glyn Johns video (not great quality) where he was asked if he measured the distance, and he basically says "that's BS"!!!
Also says not to pan hard, IIRC…
(lots of gold in this one)