Midichase

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makke
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Post 07 Jun 2018

Reason doesn't have midichase and more I use Reason, more this is starting to annoying. It is really annoying to do pads, risers - anything with long notes. Draw 16 bar long note, do some automation to bar #14-16, to hear it, you need to play it on very begginig and wait it go bar #16 only to find that your automation doesn't work, fix it, do / wait it again, fix it again, do it again - endless looping and this takes so, so much unnecessary time. So frustrating :roll:

First I hated that Reason doesn't have "automatically returning playing cursor", but this lack of midichase, this is equally, or even more annoying. I know that some people prefer to work this way, but I can't.

Mattias, any change that we would get midichase option asap? Even Live added this recently. I guess Reason is the only DAW which doesn't have this. :?:

So, am I the only one who finds this thing annoying? :?

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selig
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Post 07 Jun 2018

makke wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Reason doesn't have midichase and more I use Reason, more this is starting to annoying. It is really annoying to do pads, risers - anything with long notes. Draw 16 bar long note, do some automation to bar #14-16, to hear it, you need to play it on very begginig and wait it go bar #16 only to find that your automation doesn't work, fix it, do / wait it again, fix it again, do it again - endless looping and this takes so, so much unnecessary time. So frustrating :roll:

First I hated that Reason doesn't have "automatically returning playing cursor", but this lack of midichase, this is equally, or even more annoying. I know that some people prefer to work this way, but I can't.

Mattias, any change that we would get midichase option asap? Even Live added this recently. I guess Reason is the only DAW which doesn't have this. :?:

So, am I the only one who finds this thing annoying? :?
it's an odd omission to be sure, but it doesn't help in many cases. Take a slow attack riser type sound, or an ambience pad that evolves - there's no way to do anything but start the sound at the beginning even when you play it near the end (with note chase). So you'll never hear the correct timing of these things, at least until a synth can add "envelope chase" that allows them to jump to the middle of the envelop or LFO when notes are played from the middle.

Still I miss it sometimes, would be so simple to implement, and is a feature from MIDI sequencers back in the 80s! ;)

Files under "things that make you go hmmmmm"…
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jimmyklane
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Post 07 Jun 2018

makke wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Reason doesn't have midichase and more I use Reason, more this is starting to annoying. It is really annoying to do pads, risers - anything with long notes. Draw 16 bar long note, do some automation to bar #14-16, to hear it, you need to play it on very begginig and wait it go bar #16 only to find that your automation doesn't work, fix it, do / wait it again, fix it again, do it again - endless looping and this takes so, so much unnecessary time. So frustrating :roll:

First I hated that Reason doesn't have "automatically returning playing cursor", but this lack of midichase, this is equally, or even more annoying. I know that some people prefer to work this way, but I can't.

Mattias, any change that we would get midichase option asap? Even Live added this recently. I guess Reason is the only DAW which doesn't have this. :?:

So, am I the only one who finds this thing annoying? :?
If I remember correctly this is a limitation of MIDI. The “note on” information only hits at the beginning of that 16 bars.

Am I incorrect?
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makke
Posts: 44
Joined: 06 May 2017
Location: Helsinki

Post 07 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
07 Jun 2018
makke wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Reason doesn't have midichase and more I use Reason, more this is starting to annoying. It is really annoying to do pads, risers - anything with long notes. Draw 16 bar long note, do some automation to bar #14-16, to hear it, you need to play it on very begginig and wait it go bar #16 only to find that your automation doesn't work, fix it, do / wait it again, fix it again, do it again - endless looping and this takes so, so much unnecessary time. So frustrating :roll:

First I hated that Reason doesn't have "automatically returning playing cursor", but this lack of midichase, this is equally, or even more annoying. I know that some people prefer to work this way, but I can't.

Mattias, any change that we would get midichase option asap? Even Live added this recently. I guess Reason is the only DAW which doesn't have this. :?:

So, am I the only one who finds this thing annoying? :?
If I remember correctly this is a limitation of MIDI. The “note on” information only hits at the beginning of that 16 bars.

Am I incorrect?
Yeah, only hits/play on beggining of that 16 bars - where the note starts. That 16 bars was just an example. It doesn't matter is it 4, 8 or 16 bars long, it is annoying thing. Basically, midichase is that it reads all the midi data anywhere, all the time you hit play. Like you have 8 bar long midi note, you hit play middle of if, it reads/plays it. Pretty much basic feature of any DAW.

You old Reason users are probably get used to this, but new users, like me, who have get used to "proper way", feels annoyed by this, that is sure :eh:

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selig
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Post 07 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
makke wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Reason doesn't have midichase and more I use Reason, more this is starting to annoying. It is really annoying to do pads, risers - anything with long notes. Draw 16 bar long note, do some automation to bar #14-16, to hear it, you need to play it on very begginig and wait it go bar #16 only to find that your automation doesn't work, fix it, do / wait it again, fix it again, do it again - endless looping and this takes so, so much unnecessary time. So frustrating :roll:

First I hated that Reason doesn't have "automatically returning playing cursor", but this lack of midichase, this is equally, or even more annoying. I know that some people prefer to work this way, but I can't.

Mattias, any change that we would get midichase option asap? Even Live added this recently. I guess Reason is the only DAW which doesn't have this. :?:

So, am I the only one who finds this thing annoying? :?
If I remember correctly this is a limitation of MIDI. The “note on” information only hits at the beginning of that 16 bars.

Am I incorrect?
Many sequencers for years now have a “note chase” feature where they trigger any notes that are already “playing” if you start playback in the middle of the timeline. Of course, the envelops play from the start so it’s not a fool-proof solution, but it is a common feature other DAWs support (usually as an option you can turn on/off).


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jimmyklane
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Joined: 16 Apr 2018

Post 07 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
07 Jun 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
If I remember correctly this is a limitation of MIDI. The “note on” information only hits at the beginning of that 16 bars.

Am I incorrect?
Many sequencers for years now have a “note chase” feature where they trigger any notes that are already “playing” if you start playback in the middle of the timeline. Of course, the envelops play from the start so it’s not a fool-proof solution, but it is a common feature other DAWs support (usually as an option you can turn on/off).


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I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this. Ableton Live 9 Suite doesn’t seem to have this, and my old trusty Nuendo 5 didn’t seem to have it either that I could tell.

You mentioned old sequencers. The ultimate MIDI-only sequencer of all time was Cubase on the ATARI ST....pretty sure that didn’t have it!

Are we talking the new versions of Cubase? Either way, Cubase MOPS THE FLOOR with Reason when it comes to MIDI options and implementation. But cannot route audio nearly as freely.
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

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selig
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Post 07 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
selig wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Many sequencers for years now have a “note chase” feature where they trigger any notes that are already “playing” if you start playback in the middle of the timeline. Of course, the envelops play from the start so it’s not a fool-proof solution, but it is a common feature other DAWs support (usually as an option you can turn on/off).


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I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this. Ableton Live 9 Suite doesn’t seem to have this, and my old trusty Nuendo 5 didn’t seem to have it either that I could tell.

You mentioned old sequencers. The ultimate MIDI-only sequencer of all time was Cubase on the ATARI ST....pretty sure that didn’t have it!

Are we talking the new versions of Cubase? Either way, Cubase MOPS THE FLOOR with Reason when it comes to MIDI options and implementation. But cannot route audio nearly as freely.
In Cubase it’s called “Chase” and can be applied to multiple event types - very handy for program changes, for example. Great for key switch instruments too!

I know it’s available in Logic, Sonar, Performer, Pro Tools.

I remember it being in Master Tracks Pro, but don’t think it was available in Vision (not 100% sure). I think MIDI Paint and Total Music before that had it, but hey that was back in 1986 and I can’t be sure I’m remembering correctly.
;)


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jimmyklane
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Post 07 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
07 Jun 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this. Ableton Live 9 Suite doesn’t seem to have this, and my old trusty Nuendo 5 didn’t seem to have it either that I could tell.

You mentioned old sequencers. The ultimate MIDI-only sequencer of all time was Cubase on the ATARI ST....pretty sure that didn’t have it!

Are we talking the new versions of Cubase? Either way, Cubase MOPS THE FLOOR with Reason when it comes to MIDI options and implementation. But cannot route audio nearly as freely.
In Cubase it’s called “Chase” and can be applied to multiple event types - very handy for program changes, for example. Great for key switch instruments too!

I know it’s available in Logic, Sonar, Performer, Pro Tools.

I remember it being in Master Tracks Pro, but don’t think it was available in Vision (not 100% sure). I think MIDI Paint and Total Music before that had it, but hey that was back in 1986 and I can’t be sure I’m remembering correctly.
;)


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Huh. Maybe it’s because Reason doesn’t return to start point when I hit stop....so I’ve always reset to the beginning of the bar? Not sure how I missed this one
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

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chimp_spanner
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Post 08 Jun 2018

Yeah MIDI chase has indeed been around for a long time, and I've submitted it as a request to PH already. Of course it's not gonna take into account things like envelope starts but even an incorrectly timed riser or effect is better than absolute silence, and mostly it's for things like pads and strings, or even drones, where the start position isn't so important as actually hearing the notes.

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deepndark
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Post 08 Jun 2018

Is "Midi Chase" technically having another parallel playback muted and when solo'd it playbacks that one?

This maybe afterall, but you'd need a marker "MC" (midi-chase) and wait for the calculating for all the midi events that started before the marker maybe. Moving this marker around needs a new calculation every time, which would be done when you press play? Or would the marker be pointless and a position of playback cursor would already do it?
This would mean a need for empty bars to be added before the midi-trigger moments, so all the chased midis would be playing like they should.

Edit: Or even "mark a clip" for the desired clips to be midi-chased. And as an option only from preferences.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 08 Jun 2018

deepndark wrote:
08 Jun 2018
Is "Midi Chase" technically having another parallel playback muted and when solo'd it playbacks that one?
Not sure how you mean? It basically generates a MIDI note on message when the transport is started halfway through a MIDI event, so you can hear long chords or drones without having to pass their note on event.

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deepndark
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Post 08 Jun 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
08 Jun 2018
deepndark wrote:
08 Jun 2018
Is "Midi Chase" technically having another parallel playback muted and when solo'd it playbacks that one?
Not sure how you mean? It basically generates a MIDI note on message when the transport is started halfway through a MIDI event, so you can hear long chords or drones without having to pass their note on event.
I think I got it right then, basically an earler midi event starts playbacking in the halfway like the audio stripe's audio does??

A solution would be having a parallel playback for every midi channel that has an event triggered before the cursor, so one milli-seconds earlier playbacking midi would solve it?

Or maybe not, halfway situation would require to catch up that moment somehow.

But if you'd make an audio out of the middleway midi events, then my one milli/sec earlier would work too.

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deepndark
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Post 08 Jun 2018

A cleaned out technical how to:
Chase all the midi, that needs to be chased would be calculated when pressing Play. You cursor position calculates em, i.e. how much time-math would be needed be done to every midi event. (so all the 3 midi tracks would playback in once in a perfect relative timing).

There should be background playback for midi-chasing separately.
This is my own mumbo-jumbo though, I may do it not right.

makke
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Post 08 Jun 2018

I sent yesterday this thread link to Mattias via Twitter for asking comments, surprisingly no answer :eh:

I've been playing with Reason tonight again and I really want to like this, but some things, they are so annoying and this is one of them. After doing Feel The Love, my first Reason song, I decided not to use Reason, until they have fixed at least this midichase and that automatically returning playing cursor. So, I sold Reason away. Soon I missed it and bought it back. Did my second song in Reason, which is currently waiting for a release and I decided again that no, I don't use this anymore, until they fix these things.. This time I got also annoyed by super tiny GUI. All the knobs etc are so tiny and blurred out. It's workable, but everything is so tiny.

Even all the problems, yesterday I got inspired again and I even took that 19€/month subscription deal. It's have been fun time testing all the new stuff out, but damn, these problems, they make things so uninspiring. I don't even want to start building a new song on Reason. This why I am writing this long rant post.. You got inspired, then you lose it. Feels like wife turns you really on and then suddenly says: sorry but not today :lol:

After requesting this "automatically returning playing cursor", over year ago, I keep reading over and over again that it and many other things have been requested many years ago, I keep wondering Prop's priority lists. Do they use their own progam at all. Build long songs on it and notice what is wrong or what could be done other way. Easier way, faster way. Like, to do this returning playing cursors, it would take only few lines of code and it would make so many people happy. It would help new Reason users, like me, to adapt the program, as it is standard feature from on any other DAW. Just like this midichase is too. Basic features. Instead of doing this/these, they keep spamming me millions of emails.

I am also part of the Presonus Studio One beta testing team. I've being it now 7 or 8 years. There, if you ask or suggest something, developers will comment and probably add it. I also own the FL Studio. They also have very open forum, with active developers. They talk to you too, they add features. Especially now more than ever. Thanks to Gol, who decided to left FL Studio. There is a reason why FL and S1 are so popular.

I've been using Reason now one year and this whole Prop's thing feels so closed and distanced from all the users. Antic604 made a thread where he wants to see the roadmap. This is what I would exactly want to know too. Should I wait, if so, how much. If I need to wait 5 years single midichase or automatically returning playing cursor, that is goodbye for sure.

Clearly, right now, Reason is not for me, I know that, no need to say it to me, but I would like it be for me as I really like Reason. It just needs couple fixes. Don't forget that I am just a new guy, who try to adapt to Reason. After all, Prop's are looking for the new customers. Their lately made aggressive and desparete campaigns are clearly sign of that. So, hey Prop's, here I am :wave: A new customer, who wants to use your program. Can you add some basic features to your program which would help new users, like me to adap on it, or should we move to another program. It's totally up to you, but don't keep us waiting too long. I've already waited a year with single super simple feature, which was originally requested years ago... :shh:

End of rant :D

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jam-s
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Post 08 Jun 2018

A standard midi chase would be not that great imho. For Props it would be on par if they would implement it like this:

1. On play rewind the playhead to the position where the first note of the currently playing midi notes started,
2. fast forward (i.e. render at max speed) to the position the playhead was, without sending the rendering buffer to the audio interface
3. continue rendering while sending the new buffers to the audio interface.

That way the envelopes would be ok and the sound should be like when simply listening from the start.

To make this even better: steps 1 and 2 can be done in a background task while the sequencer is stopped and the CPU is idle.
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deepndark
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Post 09 Jun 2018

Yeah, I also was thinking if playing could be speeded up to get into the right moment more fastly.
If MIDI would have a "Midi-Pause" or Zero tempo but it seems the lowest tempo is 1.

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Raveshaper
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Post 11 Jun 2018

makke wrote:
08 Jun 2018
I sent yesterday this thread link to Mattias via Twitter for asking comments, surprisingly no answer :eh:

If I need to wait 5 years single midichase or automatically returning playing cursor, that is goodbye for sure.
Some people have been waiting a lot longer than 5 years for a lot of things. Things that have caught on as popular features everywhere else because they changed the way music was being made. I agree it does not feel inclusive and does not make sense.

You may be waiting more than 5 years for this, and it may never happen. It probably won't happen, because things must be different even if that means "slower" or "harder". In the meantime, you can carefully choose something else that can keep up with your imagination and continue to inspire you so you can make the music only you can make!
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Bman70
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Post 12 Sep 2020

Two years later I think this is really f-cking essential, has Reason figured it out yet? I may have to move faster with my switch to Logic. I'm writing a piece where it takes about 20 seconds to play from the start of a MIDI pad to where I'm editing stuff. After ten times, I've wasted 3 minutes that could be used writing material.

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Heigen5
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Post 12 Sep 2020

So now, after many years from the date of this thread, I think the best solution to have midi-chase would be this solution over the reasonheads: https://reasonheads.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=116

Superfreeze would always allow playing music back in the middle of the midi-notes. Because all the channels would play back audio instead of the midi. Also, I would put midi-ghost into every midi clip, that are identical. This method is probably the bestest solution in the CPU-wise too.

If only there would also be a free-run LFO starting position-knob to always get the same sound out of the synths and the effects then.

Also if some clips would have a tail that should also start playing back, we'd solve it to have a separated audio for those notes. The biggest challenge would be making right coding for this method, so, everything would be a 100% success!

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Creativemind
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Post 12 Sep 2020

makke wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Reason doesn't have midichase and more I use Reason, more this is starting to annoying. It is really annoying to do pads, risers - anything with long notes. Draw 16 bar long note, do some automation to bar #14-16, to hear it, you need to play it on very begginig and wait it go bar #16 only to find that your automation doesn't work, fix it, do / wait it again, fix it again, do it again - endless looping and this takes so, so much unnecessary time. So frustrating :roll:

First I hated that Reason doesn't have "automatically returning playing cursor", but this lack of midichase, this is equally, or even more annoying. I know that some people prefer to work this way, but I can't.

Mattias, any change that we would get midichase option asap? Even Live added this recently. I guess Reason is the only DAW which doesn't have this. :?:

So, am I the only one who finds this thing annoying? :?
Yeah the first feature I remember being amazed Reason didn't have (in November 2012) 3 weeks after using Reason 6.5 was Muting Midi Notes. I searched and searched and was an absolute novice to daw's back then so didn't think it would be absent but it was. I was gobsmacked. Then learning that Logic, Cubase, FL Studio etc had it and it's a pretty basic function. After spending £250 on what you think is up to par software with the current leading competitors, I don't get why very basic little things like this aren't implemented (although we know it is now). I'd argue these things should be listed as not in the software when you buy it lol! Anyway, they added it last year, so 7yrs later for muting a midi note. That's ridiculous for such a simple feature seeing as Reason was 19yrs old when 11 was released and the 5th oldest DAW. Makes midi chase seem very advanced lol! Think (tryna remember now) joining midi notes was the next one I needed and still waiting for that then maybe Midi Key Highlighting in the Midi Editor was next which even in Reason 11 hasn't been implemented properly. I want a shading across the midi editor to line up with notes, not just the key on the piano in the midi editor lighting up. You still have to try and line up the notes with your eyes or finger if you're trying to find out which midi editor note is on your controller where a shading going across solves this (see pic). These are just little things that would severely help speeds things up, little things that irk me. Undo History I've wanted for years too as well as Midi Chase. Ganged Faders I remember wanting probably as far back as 2014 but that's been added thankfully.
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VIVIsect
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Post 12 Sep 2020

jimmyklane wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Ableton Live 9 Suite doesn’t seem to have this
I know this is an old comment, but Live 10 definitely has it (Chase MIDI Notes in Options). As someone who works with lots of long drones/ambient sounds triggered via sampler, the MIDI chase function is definitely a must.

I still get a kick out of the fact that highlighted notes on the piano roll for notes being played is something that was just added in version 11. One of the most very basic functions... :lol:

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Creativemind
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Post 12 Sep 2020

VIVIsect wrote:
12 Sep 2020
jimmyklane wrote:
07 Jun 2018
Ableton Live 9 Suite doesn’t seem to have this
I still get a kick out of the fact that highlighted notes on the piano roll for notes being played is something that was just added in version 11. One of the most very basic functions... :lol:
Notes being played as in, as the Song Position Pointer (which isn't really the right word come to think of it as the pointer refers to the top part where it points doesn't it? Song Position Cursor might be a better name :-D) travels through the note as I said above, still no detection from your midi controller in the midi editor itself where the notes are, only on the piano keys.
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Jackjackdaw
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Post 12 Sep 2020

But look! That bald guy with a beard who plays terrible music really fast on the keyboard made a 30 second video shredding on the new Friktion synth that sounds just like a violin to people who don't really know what violins actually sound like! What more do you want?!

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selig
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Post 12 Sep 2020

Jackjackdaw wrote:
12 Sep 2020
But look! That bald guy with a beard who plays terrible music really fast on the keyboard made a 30 second video shredding on the new Friktion synth that sounds just like a violin to people who don't really know what violins actually sound like! What more do you want?!
Bald guy aside, I don't think I would need a "real violin" instrument very often, but I can see many uses for a creative instrument such as Friction. It's like comparing Reason to a "real DAW" - I still feel more creative and inspired with Reason.
:)
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EdGrip
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Post 13 Sep 2020

As computers get faster, presumably it should be possible to instruct the DAW to start rendering to a buffer any notes under the playhead as soon as the playhead is held above them, as fast as it can (i.e faster than realtime). This could be a switchable version of MIDI chase behaviour, but potentially, for the price of a second or two of calculating time, you could drop the playhead in the middle of any notes and the DAW would play them back as ad-hoc frozen/bounced notes, much more "correctly" than if it were playing from the start.

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