No new REs for me, until I see Reason roadmap

[antic604]

So I was quite surprised today when I've summed up all my RE purchases in last 6 months (since I bought Reason) and it amounted to EUR 704!

While I'm mostly happy with what I got and it's all very useful, I can't shake the feeling that more & more I'm starting to feel like a prisoner of the ecosystem that I've no clue where it's going (and no, Europa VST doesn't change a thing, at least not just yet). As I've expressed several times, I love Reason's unique virtual hardware rack paradigm, its native devices, the sometimes tedious patching, convenience of the RE format and they're all the reason I'm here. However, there's no evidence whatsoever - written or otherwise - that Propellerhead are working on the workflow (sequencer, keyboard shortcuts) and GUI (high-DPI support, GPU acceleration), which are the two most painful areas for me and sooner or later the frustration with them WILL overwhelm the joy I get from other elements...

I'm not expecting a detailed timeline with a list of specific features to be implemented, but at least a general statement that they're actively working on those things and are committed to deliver them. Not that they're "aware of them" or will "pass along to the team", because those mean nothing.

Otherwise I don't feel safe locking myself away in the RE ecosystem any further.

That's my ultimatum

[djadalaide]

I keep saying no new REs then RE players and RX950 came out.

But i can say this: From the direction propellerheads have been going in, they *are* listening to their users - it just takes time to implement what we want.

[antic604]

they *are* listening to their users - it just takes time to implement what we want.

That great and all, but my problem is I have the money, but I don't have the time
So I'd rather spend it where I know they're going towards something I care about.

[djadalaide]

they *are* listening to their users - it just takes time to implement what we want.

That great and all, but my problem is I have the money, but I don't have the time
So I'd rather spend it where I know they're going towards something I care about.

You could always use that money to create your own DAW.

Pay me and i'll create one for you

[antic604]

That great and all, but my problem is I have the money, but I don't have the time
So I'd rather spend it where I know they're going towards something I care about.

You could always use that money to create your own DAW.

Pay me and i'll create one for you

There's enough of great DAWs on the market already. Reason is close, but it's held back by some of its elements that've not received proper (or actually - any) care over the years.

[jimmyklane]

That great and all, but my problem is I have the money, but I don't have the time
So I'd rather spend it where I know they're going towards something I care about.

You could always use that money to create your own DAW.

Pay me and i'll create one for you

If you’re really THAT good of a coder, perhaps you’d like to get paid for a project I’ve been trying to get done for years and years?

[motuscott]

I've stopped even counting my REs, and I'm not crazy enough to tally up what they cost me.

[demt]

this thread is great

[jimmyklane]

You know, even though they’ve been in existence since 6.5, I bought my very first RE during this recent May Madness sale. Especially when PH rolled in VST support I thought to myself “what do I even need these for?”...for quite a long time I stopped using Reason as anything more than a rewired sound module.....however, now that Reason is my only DAW, I’ve now seen some of the light...Blamsoft’s Polymodular bundle was a revelation to me, and I’ve began to experiment with CV once again (I was a hardcore rack-hacker in versions 1, 2, 2.5, and 4) and given that I’ve just downloaded the Hamu suite of REs, I’ll probably be neck-deep in CV cables and busy learning the Poly-CV standard and what I can do with it.

I think that if you have already invested 700+ Euros into Reason REs, then you’re already pretty deep into the framework of Reason. Do you use Reason alone or do you also use other DAWs? To my way of thinking, if Reason is your only workstation (as it is mine now) then you’ve basically purchased a set of plugins with far greater functionality than almost all standard VST plugins.

CV is kind of Reasons “thing” as you well know and I think that you should consider only what functionality Reason has RIGHT NOW when factoring in your head whether you want to purchase additional effects, processors, players, or CV functionality. If you “wait and see” in regards to REs then perhaps you miss out on stuff that would be really useful to you and then have to pay more for it.

I understand your point about wanting to see where Reason is headed....in a general way it makes a lot of sense....but I only think it applies if you’re talking about paying to upgrade Reason itself. I finally paid to upgrade from 7 to 10 because of the new instruments....I thought it had been quite a while since PH made anything new, and was (correctly I think) excited to try them out. The added bonus of VST functionality was cool but hardly necessary for me as I tend to process everything before it hits my A/D converters.

In short: IS REASON YOUR DAW? Are you using it with something else? In that case perhaps it makes more sense to buy VST versions of anything that’s available in both. If Reason is your only DAW then the reduced CPU drain, added CV functionality, and ease of modulation and automation make a compelling case for using REs instead.

[WongoTheSane]

I'll argue another point: you've spent $100/month for your passion, it's not much. It's just about what ticket prices would cost for a movie fan, or a couple of fine wine bottles for a drunka wine expert, or half a circuit tour for a sports car enthusiast. And none of these will persist in time either: they're consumed, and you're left with the memories. In the case of REs, you still have the REs in your account and you still can make good use of them. So, compared to other hobbies, it's not that expensive, even without considering the future evolution of the platform.

[antic604]

In short: IS REASON YOUR DAW? Are you using it with something else? In that case perhaps it makes more sense to buy VST versions of anything that’s available in both. If Reason is your only DAW then the reduced CPU drain, added CV functionality, and ease of modulation and automation make a compelling case for using REs instead.

No, it's not my only DAW, not even a primary one.

But it could be if only they fixed the GUI and Sequencer workflow.

Or if I knew they're actively working on this (hence the topic).

[antic604]

I'll argue another point: you've spent $100/month for your passion, it's not much. It's just about what ticket prices would cost for a movie fan, or a couple of fine wine bottles for a drunka wine expert, or half a circuit tour for a sports car enthusiast. And none of these will persist in time either: they're consumed, and you're left with the memories. In the case of REs, you still have the REs in your account and you still can make good use of them. So, compared to other hobbies, it's not that expensive, even without considering the future evolution of the platform.

Sure, but I could be spending similar amount of money on VSTs that I could reliably use in any other DAW, not locking myself in the walled garden. If I don't like how eg. Live is developing, I can take all my toys (VSTs) and go to Bitwig or Studio One. Can't do the same with Reason. Can't even sell the REs.

I know I should treat this as a 'sunk costs' going towards the enjoyment I get, but if I have alternatives where part of the cost could be recouped, why should I not take them instead? Or at least why shouldn't I stop sinking more money in it?

/yeah, I'm a banker

[Ollie]

I don't think it's very likely you'll ever see that 'roadmap'. It's a competitive market after all, and businesses need to keep their secrets. Even RE devs have to almost entirely speculate the intentions of PH.

Speculation is our friend here though... They've just dropped Europa in a web browser, and it actually runs. That is a Reason instrument running in a web browser. One naturally assumes there must be a very good reason that PH bothered to invest time in doing that, but what could the reason be?

[chimp_spanner]

Roadmaps don't necessarily always make things better. I don't think the average software user (and I include myself in this) fully understands or appreciates the process of making software. Or the kinds of things that can cause delays, or features to be dropped. And it's just another layer of complication that, if I was PH, I'd personally want to avoid. You make a pledge on a feature and a release date. Suddenly the features change, the release date changes. Suddenly people are angry about something that they wouldn't otherwise have known existed. Cue the "Props are in trouble" posts. If you want an example of what a headache this can be, look to the perpetually-upcoming game, Star Citizen. They've made the somewhat unusual choice of being very public about their roadmap. But ultimately all it's done is foster more doubt and discontent, either because things don't go according to the roadmap or because people don't like where it leads to! Personally I feel like PH have been a lot more visible and communicative in the last few months than in the whole time since I've been using Reason. I'm happy to wait to be pleasantly surprised!

[Jmax]

Just to put things in perspective. I spent $6000 on a brand new Pearl River piano a few years back. The real deal not a digital. All paid off now. I spent $1200 on my Yahana digital P90 before that. A few Mackie mixers. I calculate that I've probably spent $2000 easily on Re's.

I don't buy anymore Re's basically because I have everything. There are things that I still want in the shop but I know i have far more then I'l ever need. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. You spend money on the things you love and bring you happiness. I absolutely love Reason and the Re platform. I feel we our quite spoiled. A DAW like no other.



Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[Reasonable man]

Dont have half the re's most ii'd say here have and most of em are free cv jobbies that live in the utility section of my browser. I spend alot of time uncluttering my head as to what they all do as most of em are multi-dimensional and multi purposfull in a rack environment. I spend even more time trying to seperate the difference between em as alot can do some of what the others can do but in different ways and can be used together in different orders. I spend the rest of the time trying to remember what it was i was tring to do and why.
The rack extension cv market is on steroids right now and sometimes i think the posibilities are just too much (for me anyway).

[antic604]

I don't think it's very likely you'll ever see that 'roadmap'.

Roadmaps don't necessarily always make things better. I don't think the average software user (and I include myself in this) fully understands or appreciates the process of making software. Or the kinds of things that can cause delays, or features to be dropped. And it's just another layer of complication that, if I was PH, I'd personally want to avoid.

Ok, maybe I should've titled the topic better, but in the opening post I said clearly I'm not expecting a schedule with features & dates, just some kind of acknowledgment that they're aware of the issues, have compiled the list and are ctively working on it.

[ltbrunt00]

I have at least spent more than $2000 on RE's since their introduction.
Have spent at least 4 grand on VST's & DAW upgrades in just in the last five years.
probably about 800 on refills since reason 1 was released.
I am not going to lie some of those refills were pirated back in the beginning.
I am not buying any more RE's or VST's until the end or year sales...
Also have to save some money for the recently released Studio One 4 release and Reason 11 if that is still a thing come the end of the year.

[Krell]

With the addition of VSTs in Reason I see no reason to buy REs when a VST can be used across all platforms and if you're a multi-DAW user that is a big advantage. But then my use case is Reason as a secondary play environment and not my primary DAW.

I think the Europa VST is a fairly clear intention to increase revenue by becoming a player in the VST world, maybe this means a change of course for Propellerhead and I'm fine with that. I just wouldn't be sinking money in to a platform-limited format like RE when as the OP says its really not clear what and where this is all going. Propellerheads don't inspire me with confidence in the Reason platform thats for sure.

So yeah, no REs for me, until I see a roadmap.

[djadalaide]

I have at least spent more than $2000 on RE's since their introduction.
Have spent at least 4 grand on VST's & DAW upgrades in just in the last five years.
probably about 800 on refills since reason 1 was released.
I am not going to lie some of those refills were pirated back in the beginning.
I am not buying any more RE's or VST's until the end or year sales...
Also have to save some money for the recently released Studio One 4 release and Reason 11 if that is still a thing come the end of the year.

I purchase camel audio alchemy.. got totally screwed since apple bought them, no downloads!

I think thats the allure for me with RE its always easy to download, its never deleted, it doesn't matter what operating system you have

[pjeudy]

So yeah, no REs for me, until I see a roadmap.

It will take more then a road-map for me to purchase another RE.
I would need to see a brand new REASON! I'll leave it to props to figure that out , they have plenty of feedback and plenty of examples from other DAW developers to figure the rest out.

[aeox]

If you want an example of what a headache this can be, look to the perpetually-upcoming game, Star Citizen. They've made the somewhat unusual choice of being very public about their roadmap. But ultimately all it's done is foster more doubt and discontent, either because things don't go according to the roadmap or because people don't like where it leads to! Personally I feel like PH have been a lot more visible and communicative in the last few months than in the whole time since I've been using Reason. I'm happy to wait to be pleasantly surprised!

Cloud Imperium Games and Star Citizen is a bit different though. The game is 100% funded by backers. They need to feel like they are apart of the development and it helps them understand why things take so long in industry leading game development, among other things.

There will always be impatient and doubtful people who want all the great things right now. That is very apparent within the Star Citizen community! A large portion of people interested in Star Citizen, are people who stream games, make machinimas, etc. Basically people looking to take advantage of the games popularity to get streaming views, etc. Problem is that there isn't a "endless" gameplay loop yet. So people get very impatient and demand more content.

Sorry for rambling.. I'm a huge fan of the game!

Anyone else here play Star Citizen?

[Reasonable man]

For some reason i imagine it being the same for ableton and Fl studio users. I think its the 'type' of music that is rightly or wrongly associated with these daws. Perform/execute your tricks in your specialised daw and then take it to a sensible (often) boring studio standard mixing/mastering daw for concentrated mixing otions.

[scratchnsnifff]

I don't think it's very likely you'll ever see that 'roadmap'.

Roadmaps don't necessarily always make things better. I don't think the average software user (and I include myself in this) fully understands or appreciates the process of making software. Or the kinds of things that can cause delays, or features to be dropped. And it's just another layer of complication that, if I was PH, I'd personally want to avoid.

Ok, maybe I should've titled the topic better, but in the opening post I said clearly I'm not expecting a schedule with features & dates, just some kind of acknowledgment that they're aware of the issues, have compiled the list and are ctively working on it.

Just trying to be an optimist, I think that the scaling of Europa VST speaks for itself. Sure it’s only on the vst. But that means they realize that scaleable devices are possible. Also releasing and testing the Europa VST, probably also helps point out any other vst improvements.
I believe they did have a blog post that has been more of a roadmap than Iv ever seen.
I think earnest said they were working on vst improvements, a mobile version, and other core Reason improvements. I do hear you though. It would be nice if once a year they had a post on their site that said one of a few categories
Graphics
Midi
Audio/ssl
Content
Synths/effects/utility’s
And the better part of that year would focus on that topic. I would also love some sort of structure, but they have always been notorious for being secretive until the 2 weeks before release XD

[Exowildebeest]

they *are* listening to their users - it just takes time to implement what we want.

That great and all, but my problem is I have the money, but I don't have the time

May I recommend cocaine. It's expensive and short lasting