“The patch cannot be saved because it references sounds that are self-contained in this song”

[Mr. Watts]

So I’ve been getting this pop up almost every time I try to save a custom Kong kit or other device containing samples and it has been driving me mad. I’m only using samples that are already on my computer’s hard drive so how can they be self contained in the song? I don’t remember having this problem in earlier versions of Reason. In fact I’ve made over a hundred custom Kong kits with samples from my computer without issue in earlier versions of Reason. What I don’t get is if I’m using samples that are already on my computer then how are they self contained in the song? And unselfcontaining requires that I export the files from the Reason song, basically leaving me with 2 of the same file on my hard drive. Not to mention more time consuming and a big pain in the a$$. Has anyone else had this problem and do you know how to solve it? Thanks

[QVprod]

There’s a self contain setting I the preferences. I would have to assume it somehow got turned on. Turning it off shouldn’t require any exporting if you’re using samples off of your hard drive.

[jimmyklane]

As a matter of fact, I’ve had this exact issue as well. I’ve ALWAYS had “self-contain” on in Reason...but in the refill I just released I had to jump through a bunch of hoops just to get it into the refill packer. Then when I went to reload it, if I moved the samples it couldn’t find them, which is the whole point of self-contain in the first place! Has the behavior of this tool changed since previous versions?

[djadalaide]

Anything sampled within reason is automatically self-contained no matter what, i think that is the issue you are having.

I agree that its a pain to work with this, there should be an automatic save of the required files when saving a patch that requires a self-contained sample.

[Mr. Watts]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

QVprod: I hadn't known of this setting so thanks for bringing it to my attention. I went ahead and turned the self contain setting off but it still isn't letting me save the patches unfortunately. I'ts very strange as I was able to save 2 patches (1 kong and 1 NN-19 Combi) last night before I started getting the error. I've since copied the patch to a new Reason file and even redid the entire patch with the self contain settings off but am still getting the error. *Just checked to see if I remade the patch from scratch if it would work and it did. It seems the self contained settings stay applied to a device and its samples even if you copy it to another project. Thanks for your help! Now I'm off to spend the next hour redoing what I already did last night lol. Such is Life..

djadalaide: I'm using samples that weren't sampled in Reason. I usually only get this error when I sample inside of Reason and try to save a patch but in this instance I am just using samples from some folders on my computer. Thanks

jimmyklane: Thanks for your input sounds like a headache and a half! Can't wait to hear what you have in store for us with your Vintage Digital Volume 1 refill btw.

[avasopht]

Have you made any edits to the sample, such as changing the loop points?

[Mr. Watts]

Avospht: No I have not made any edits to the actual sample. I’ve messed with the sample start knob in the oscillator section of the NN-nano as well as the decay knob however.

[groggy1]

I can live with it, but I also find the "self-contained settings" stuff to be a pain.

In Sonar (my Host from 4 years ago), they had two pretty good choices:
1) Save all "artifacts" in a globally shared directory
2) Save all artifacts in the same directory as the song

I got used to #2, and just created subdirectories for songs. #1 is a pain, because whenever you re-built your computer, you were in deep sh*t if you forgot to backup/copy the globally shared directory


I think where this gets tough in Reason is with saving Combinator patches. E.g. if you drag a sample that *isn't* on your hard-drive into Grain, and then put Grain in a Combinator... Try saving the Combinator as a patch. You can't. It yells at you, and tells you to change the song's self-contained settings. Basically, it's forcing you to save that sample onto your hard-drive. So the net-net is that while Reason does have self-contained songs, there's no such thing as a self-contained Combinator. I'm sure that was a conscious decision they made.

[elliotness]

Just arrived here through a google search with the same issue. I had a drum loop recorded that I wanted to slice up into a Kong patch, saved for future use. Avasopht's reply helped.

Have you made any edits to the sample, such as changing the loop points?

I was just using the same sample on each channel with modified start/end points for each unique hit. What I did was just "exported as loop" each drum hit from the kong and then reloaded those samples back into each channel. Worked like a charm and allowed me to save the kong patch without tinkering in the self-contained settings.

[dioxide]

It would be helpful if Reason actually gave you the option to save the sample along with the patch, instead of making you cancel the operation and go into preferences or Self Contain Settings. Surely the app could make this easier to do.

[Loque]

It would be helpful if Reason actually gave you the option to save the sample along with the patch, instead of making you cancel the operation and go into preferences or Self Contain Settings. Surely the app could make this easier to do.

Sigh....yea...

[Boombastix]

I get into this all the time (a bit annoying), you bring up a patch you worked on a few days ago and try to resave it (I have self-contain on), but the sample has not been edited in any way. I think it should not even force you to "un-contain" it, it should just save (You can see in the self/un-contain dialog that Reason tracks if the sample was changed or not).

Second, IF you made some changes to the sample itself, because you wanted to improve upon it, it will now re-save it with a new name. I can understand it is a safety feature (e.g. sample used in multiple patches), but if I actually WANT it to overwrite the old sample - it is impossible - you can end up with a bunch of orphan samples this way. Then you have to go into the folders and track down the orphans, but you cannot rename back the sample that was renamed so it get its original name, unless you also reload it in the patch you just made. Phew...

If you do this during the work of a refill - it gets REALLY frustrating. If had the option to overwrite, simple "Yes/No", it would solve this issue. PROPELLERHEAD - LET US OVERWRITE (if we want to)

[nikolafeve]

Hey prop
Are you working on this simple but absolutely essential feature? it's a real workflow killer currently! just ask to save the patch with a copy of the used samples on a subfolder named: "patchname_samples" (to avoid the absolute path problem)
Is it on your to do list ?

[damasio]

It would be helpful if Reason actually gave you the option to save the sample along with the patch, instead of making you cancel the operation and go into preferences or Self Contain Settings. Surely the app could make this easier to do.

THIS!!!!!!!!!
Im sampling a lot of my own instruments, and this self contain sample stuff is a giant PITA.
I remember having this issue back in 2004, i can't believe PH still didnt manage to fix this!!!

[avasopht]

Hey prop
Are you working on this simple but absolutely essential feature? it's a real workflow killer currently! just ask to save the patch with a copy of the used samples on a subfolder named: "patchname_samples" (to avoid the absolute path problem)
Is it on your to do list ?

Most probably not.

[EdGrip]

I've never really understood this.
I don't care, Reason. Save the fucking patch. If you need to make copies of bits of audio to do that, get on and do it, don't ask me about it, I'm not your mum.

[deigm]

So how exactly does one save a patch with samples for use in future projects?

I just learned the hard way how not to do it. I made a custom drum kit and now for some reason the samples cannot be found even in the same project. I've always had self-contain samples ON.

If I was to try again to make a drumkit to use in multiple projects, would I need to manually export all the samples used to an easy-to-remember-where-the-hell-I-put-those-damn-samples folder for the locator to find in another project?

Especially relevant question given Mimic is dropping tomorrow, I think...

[avasopht]

This is really bad UX. It's trivial to extract them to external samples instead of users having to awkwardly extract and link them one by one.

[deigm]

This is really bad UX. It's trivial to extract them to external samples instead of users having to awkwardly extract and link them one by one.

So that is indeed what we have to do?
I really thought there'd be a workaround or something..

[petecampbell]

If you do this during the work of a refill - it gets REALLY frustrating. If had the option to overwrite, simple "Yes/No", it would solve this issue. PROPELLERHEAD - LET US OVERWRITE (if we want to)

Please FIX this all ready Propellerhead!!!! I keep bumping in this spectacularly annoying despite the recommended changes in settings.

[Jackjackdaw]

Hey prop
Are you working on this simple but absolutely essential feature? it's a real workflow killer currently! just ask to save the patch with a copy of the used samples on a subfolder named: "patchname_samples" (to avoid the absolute path problem)
Is it on your to do list ?

This would be so good!

[deigm]

Another vote for a 'save samples with patch' feature here!

[selig]

I agree a "save samples with device" option would be ideal…but for now:

Yea, it is a problem as is. but it's a problem only because Reason wants to keep everything together with the song file by default. I'm guessing this is the default because most folks don't make their own samples/patches? But here's how I understand what's going on, at least with the more common workflows.

One way to do this is to select all the samples in the Self Contained Samples directory and EXPORT. BUT, then you'll have to relink the device patch to the new location for the sample.

Easier to use the oddly named Song Self-Contain Setting… command, un-contain (?) the samples and then you will be asked to choose where to save the files (or you can create a new folder first). With this approach you don't need to relink the patch and the samples, which is a bit more streamlined but still not quite as efficient as a single command to do all this automatically.

Interestingly, you can now switch the samples back to being "self contained" and they will be saved with the song file (useful for keeping a backup and bread crumb trail of your samples/patch creation process), just don't re-save the patch after doing so!

As a side note, the Prefs "Self Contain" setting would only help in the specific case of loading samples from disk and then trying to save a patch, which you SHOULD easily be able to do UNLESS you select this option in the Prefs. IF you create the samples in Reason via any process, they do not yet exist on disk and as such can only be "self contained" until you either export them or un-contain them.

I've edited this text a few times to clarify things as I worked with the admittedly unintuitive process, so hopefully I've not misrepresented anything here or added to the confusion!