Why my music sounds plain?

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mirrorsu
Posts: 1
Joined: 23 May 2018

23 May 2018

Hi,
I would like to know how to increase depth into my music. When I hear other people's work, the music sound "rich" in levels. even during the solo. I can hear the differences between mine and others. What did I do wrong? Do I have to adjust each instrument in a certain way?
(Especially when I use String instrument, the feeling of lack of depth become more obvious.)

Here are some example of my music:




(These music I increase the volume level in Premiere afterwards, because my music is always not loud enough.)

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chimp_spanner
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Joined: 06 Mar 2015

24 May 2018

First of all nice work on the songs! Some really good moments in there. I'd say the issue is probably just the libraries you're using. Is it Orkestra ReFill? If so a lot of those sounds are in mono. What the tracks need (Wanna Play moreso than The Maze) is width. It all feels kinda closed-in and narrow. Investing in a good Orchestral Library..or two or three or a dozen :lol: will definitely help as a lot of them now are just so deep, realistic and lush, wish the ability to blend ambience from the original recording environment rather than relying on digital reverbs. So yeah I'd say all you really need to do is invest in some new sounds. Which isn't *always* the best advice but I think in your case, you'd be able to make the most of them :)

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Loque
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24 May 2018

I am just listening with some cheap and crappy headphones atm...The sounds sound cheap and thin to me, that might be a problem for "real" acoustic or orchestral stuff. Also i cannot hear much in the background, i mean the dynamic is pretty high according to low/high gain and there are parts that are just quiet and thin, nearly inaudible. Maybe some compression (up/down/expansion) could help to lift the sound up a bit. As chimp_spanner said a better library could help and also a better reverb or convolution reverb to model a room can help - some sounds seem to have reverb, some not, a bit undefined space. Well, i am not the orchestral guru or guru at all, but that is my opinion.
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demt
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24 May 2018

add gain a to the main mix and b to the problem sound gain increases the harmonic varience ie on a graph the spikes are bigger and more defined as opposed to merely increasing volume
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demt
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24 May 2018

the slightly expensive but original gain and colouration unit, sausage fattener

http://www.dadalife.com/sausage-fattener/
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hear scince reason 2.5

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

24 May 2018

Let me add a side note, that if dynamic music is compared to loudness war music, and people ask what's wrong with the dynamic one, then the real question is, what's wrong with people who desire the loudness war.

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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 May 2018

You're doing nothing wrong, just keep truckin' :) I guess you're just comparing what you did yourself to something where multiple people with way more experience than you put it together. You'll get there in a few years or decades, just keep doing what works.

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QVprod
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24 May 2018

Agreed with chimp_spanner. The composition is wonderful. Problem seems to really be with the strings.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

24 May 2018

mirrorsu wrote:
23 May 2018
Hi,
I would like to know how to increase depth into my music. When I hear other people's work, the music sound "rich" in levels. even during the solo. I can hear the differences between mine and others. What did I do wrong? Do I have to adjust each instrument in a certain way?
(Especially when I use String instrument, the feeling of lack of depth become more obvious.)

Here are some example of my music:




(These music I increase the volume level in Premiere afterwards, because my music is always not loud enough.)
Having just listened to “Wanna Play” on my home theater system (this is soundtrack music IMO) here is where its not as “big” as other work.

A: You have a small ensemble sound. If you want it BIG then write for Bass, Cello, Viola(really fills out the lower mids!) and 1st and 2nd Violin.

B: Use multiple horns, stack them and write individual lines as well as using “section” patches.

C: try adding some subtle synthetic elements to make things more modern. For example, in the pauses where you have one simple cymbal strike (that I’m pretty sure I recognize from Orkester) you could also have some dissonant electronic noises to make it a little darker in tone.

D: others have suggested new libraries. I think I agree here, as your composition is excellent. As a tip....think of each and every part as a melody line and play that part on the keyboard as a string or horn/woodwinds player would. Use multiple different patches for each instrument, stack them to create your own “sections” and pan each section as they would sit in an orchestral setting.

E: in film scoring, when the actual parts are recorded, many times they have 6-10 players that are stacked many times....this can be a problem with a limited sample set and so most professional film scores are mocked up using several libraries. East-West make excellent string and horn libraries, and of course you can look into the stunning Vienna Symphonic library.

I’ve taken to using synthetic “string synth” types of sounds created in my hardware synths and layering them very softly under the real strings. They can give the impression of a larger ensemble as well as provide some sorely needed movement within the sound that is so challenging using samples. Remember that Orkester came out with Reason 2.5 when 2GB of RAM was a big deal....they are small and compact with no key switching and few velocity layers.

I hope this gives you some ideas for your music....and compliments to your excellent composition skills!!! If I may ask, what are these for? Are you scoring a film?
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SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

24 May 2018

mirrorsu wrote:
23 May 2018
Hi,
I would like to know how to increase depth into my music. When I hear other people's work, the music sound "rich" in levels. even during the solo. I can hear the differences between mine and others. What did I do wrong? Do I have to adjust each instrument in a certain way?
(Especially when I use String instrument, the feeling of lack of depth become more obvious.)

Here are some example of my music:




(These music I increase the volume level in Premiere afterwards, because my music is always not loud enough.)
My 2 cents…

I'm hearing great arrangements here, and the samples are OK IMO and probably not the main issue I hear.
The first question I would ask is what are your reference tracks - what recordings sound like what you're going for with these songs?
Without knowing that, I can only speculate about what YOU don't like about your songs.

So let the speculation begin…
Assuming you're wanting a level of realism you're not yet getting, assuming you don't have the disposable budget to purchase a new orchestral library I would turn first to the balances and the reverb. For example, on the first cut I hear a "chorusey" reverb on the glockenspiel that is very processed sounding - this may or may not be intentional. On the other instruments (on both songs) I hear generic reverb but I don't hear the room/hall in which these instruments would normally be recorded.

When I'm working on tracks like this I spend a LOT of time finding the most believable reverb (my go-to reverb for this application is Reverberate). Think about the attention spent on designing and building great halls and sound stages, and how much the sound of the room contributes to the sound of the instruments/recording. The room/hall is literally one of the biggest elements in the mix, and can make or brake the quality of the performance/recording. To achieve that level of believability you need to spend time "building/finding" your space, and you need to imagine how every instrument is placed in that space.

For example, in your first track your percussion (especially the cymbal) is loud and up front, something that would never happen in an orchestral recording. Same for some of the strings IMO. Sure, with better libraries you shouldn't have to work as much to get everything to sound as if it's in the same room/space, but it's totally possible to make these tracks more believable by choosing a different reverb and paying more attention to the balances - IF that's your intention.

I'd be interested in hearing specific examples of the sound you're going for, and from there I think we all can give even better feedback.
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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ravisoni
Posts: 420
Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Las Vegas

24 May 2018

normen wrote:
24 May 2018
...just keep doing what works.
LOL, Normen, but that's what his post was about, that he doesn't think what we was doing is working.

But OP, I agree here that you're likely comparing your work to that with those who have years of experience on them. Also agree with Jimmy, Selig, Chimp and Loque. Really good advice in this thread.
Just would like to emphasize the use of proper reference tracks.
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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 May 2018

ravisoni wrote:
24 May 2018
normen wrote:
24 May 2018
...just keep doing what works.
LOL, Normen, but that's what his post was about, that he doesn't think what we was doing is working.

But OP, I agree here that you're likely comparing your work to that with those who have years of experience on them. Also agree with Jimmy, Selig, Chimp and Loque. Really good advice in this thread.
Just would like to emphasize the use of proper reference tracks.
Well I didn‘t say that he should keep doing what doesn‘t work, did I? :) It‘s easy to miss that especially in those times you think bad about your own art you are actually progressing immensely. I guess if OP went back in time ten years and showed his own self of 10 years ago what he whipped up here he‘d impress himself :)

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