Is Europa on par with Serum...or even better?

[mcatalao]

Europa, Serum and expanse are on par specially now that we can load waves into it. I'd say expanse may be the most complete because there are a bunch of things that it just has more in quantity (from the top of my mind, 1 more oscs, dual envelope curves, the harmonic graph and so forth. Thought the spectral filter and the unison in Europe are simply amazing.

My take is that if one has Europa and expanse, Serum or any other wavetable or shapeshifting synth is now redundant.

I also have the opinion comparing Europa to Expanse, that Europa has a better, more simplified workflow than expanse and Serum. It's easier to get from the base osc sound to a final sound than for example with expanse there are a lot of movement and routing features that are available without too much routing matrix fiddling.

I think we are at a point where synthetic nirvana is achievable. I don't agree that we are at the nirvana because the synth nirvana is possible only if you have the knowledge to get your synth in their right place. It's

Vector does something no other synth does in reason, quad has amazing stuff for ethereal music, antidote is probably still the most snappy synth in reason and predator is still a workhorse I use for a lot of stuff. PX7 is still my goto synth for 80s fm, and you can't name a better synth to mimic organs at any level other than Revival unless sample based stuff.

Anyway... You must use any spare time to know the inside out, If you work with pre made patches you have to invest time auditioning the sounds and tag them into a practical way.

[mcatalao]

Ah and it wouldn't be fair to put grain out of the equation too. An amazing synth/sample mangled that sounds simply astonishing and does sonic shapes of amazing beauty. Vector and grain and Europa kick ads any hybrid synth you can name, having a crazy refill with stuff like omnisphere with these three is a question of time.

[dan_g]

sorry if this is a little off topic.

can someone point me out how i FM in europa correctly. the modifiers for FM are not quite what i was expecting. is there any way to, for example FM the first engine with the second one? i havent found any clues.


(on a side note. it would be really great to have the possibility to copy the settings from one to another engine)

Greets
dan_g

[Reasonable man]

Ah... I remember hydlide did some video on Europa about the fm thing can't remember which one sorry

[EnochLight]

sorry if this is a little off topic.

can someone point me out how i FM in europa correctly. the modifiers for FM are not quite what i was expecting. is there any way to, for example FM the first engine with the second one? i havent found any clues.


(on a side note. it would be really great to have the possibility to copy the settings from one to another engine)

Greets
dan_g

Ah... I remember hydlide did some video on Europa about the fm thing can't remember which one sorry

This one?

[jimmyklane]

I have Serum, Synthmaster One, ReSpire, Dune 2, Iris 2, Parsec 2, U-he synths, FM4 and a whole host of REs and Vsti. I am wondering...in a dizzy state...have we reached a synth Nirvana? Do I simply just concentrate on Europa and forget the rest? I'm p****d off learning synth after synth. I'd rather just master one synth...( I realize that each synth has it's own 'THANG' going on...

I really wanna just make good music...but spend my life looking for synths and functionality and, and, and...

...does that nonsense stop here? I hope so...

Sorry...but everything is soooo saturated...

Europa really is amazing. I might just have to draw the line and say..."let's master this one, if nothing else".

Especially now that we can import our own wavetable, this allows you to take ANY synthesizer wavetable, waveform, or sample and get its basic sound into Europa. I’ve successfully emulated oscillator sync from my Moog, Filter FM from my Matrix 12, An overdriven filter from my Bass Station II, and a bunch more simply by sampling it and importing it into Reason. I strongly recommend taking the time to master Europa, as not only is it an excellent sounding synth, but it has some pretty deep modulation and internal routing/effects capability. If you master what it can do, your music will come more naturally as you won’t have to screw around with sound design and then lose your creative thought! Sound design and music composition are two totally differing mindsets, and I think even use differing parts of your brain. It’s really challenging to successfully switch back and forth. For example, for a really long time I actually composed entire tracks on my Virus C, using simple saw and square waves and then afterwards I framed out the sounds to all of my synths and samplers. You can do the same in Europa, but even better, if you know your way around it really really well, you’ll create sounds instinctively and just keep on in the groove of composing a track.

If anyone is interested, I just made a very basic video of electronic music transitions using stock Reason devices....and if there is interest, I can create another video showing everyone around Europa and some of my own sound design workflow and tips/tricks to move around it quickly! Please let me know if there is some interest and I’ll get the video created and posted this week.

[Electric-Metal]

Ah... I remember hydlide did some video on Europa about the fm thing can't remember which one sorry

Should be this one.

[EnochLight]

Ah... I remember hydlide did some video on Europa about the fm thing can't remember which one sorry

Should be this one.

youtu.be/fWbeNWnmtGY

viewtopic.php?p=392182#p392182

[Electric-Metal]

viewtopic.php?p=392182#p392182

Oh my, I'm getting old

[dan_g]

thanks guys. so basically its only possible to fm a wavetable with a sinewave. thats what i wanted to know! nice explanation video

[flightONE]

I was about to complain that Europa needed good comb filter for the master section... but since this is Reason I threw in a Thor and a Combinator and kept chugging along... this is exactly why I keep coming back to Reason over and over ...

There is two comb filters (+/-) in the spectral filter section of Europa.

Yep those are great because of the visual feedback , however I sometimes want to add one at the end of the signal chain that affects all the oscillators which is why I ws talking about the master section!.

[dan_g]

so after some comparing between serum and europa. and then reading all the posts about how easy it is to get some nice sound out of europa.

i pretty much can say that is not the case with me. i'm talking especially about bass design for heavy bass music. its so easy for me to come up with a nice thick harsh mid bass with serum. when i try to get to this with europa i struggle. and thats even before fx get involved. just the uneffected sound is so weak.

what you guys think?

[adfielding]

so after some comparing between serum and europa. and then reading all the posts about how easy it is to get some nice sound out of europa.

i pretty much can say that is not the case with me. i'm talking especially about bass design for heavy bass music. its so easy for me to come up with a nice thick harsh mid bass with serum. when i try to get to this with europa i struggle. and thats even before fx get involved. just the uneffected sound is so weak.

Apples and oranges, imo. A lot of people like to draw comparisons between Europa and Serum because they're both wavetable synths, but I think they both excel in different areas. For Serum, I'm more into harsher sounds and thick elements that cut through a mix. With Europa, I'm more into big atmospheric sounds, lush soundscapes and keys. I think they're both awesome, and there's certainly nothing stopping you from using either for whatever takes your fancy - though I tend to lean into Europa much more heavily in my music.

[dan_g]

Apples and oranges, imo. A lot of people like to draw comparisons between Europa and Serum because they're both wavetable synths, but I think they both excel in different areas. For Serum, I'm more into harsher sounds and thick elements that cut through a mix. With Europa, I'm more into big atmospheric sounds, lush soundscapes and keys. I think they're both awesome, and there's certainly nothing stopping you from using either for whatever takes your fancy - though I tend to lean into Europa much more heavily in my music.

thanks adam,

yes i think its not quite the same when comparing this two synths. i exactly get what you mean when you say that you get better pads and atmospheric sound out of europa. for this task it is brilliant.

no there is really nothing stopping me using serum more for my bass patches. i think i put my self in to that trap trying to achieve a specific sound i wanted europa to be good at. but maybe not for my needs

[reddust]

I am actually starting with both synths together and even a couple more, but in my case I need to say that they sound both good to me but in different ways. As you said in Serum is much easier to get sounds that fill a lot of space, sounding big and specially when it comes to hard bass sounds or dubstep like sounds.

Europa sounds also good to me, I wouldn't say weak, just not that full, which depending on what purpose you are using the synth for could be the best choice too. I mean, the synth is not always supposed to fill that much space. But Serum can do that quite good too. That's the reason if I had to choose one of them both I would go for Serum as I can do both rich full sounds and secondary arrangement lines pretty quickly. Plus I'm a very visual guy and I can see much faster what I'm doing while taking a look at the graphics in Serum than moving or clicking a lot of buttons with no more feedback than the sound itself. I really love that 3D window in Serum. But I've used Europa in some projects too and it was also the right decision.

For me the question is not as much if one or two synths could be enough to get my sound but also how do I get that sound, the process itself is a very important part on creating music. As jimmyklane mentioned before, sound design and composing are different processes but I think they are both basics for making good music.

[antic604]

BTW, just up today:

[EnochLight]

BTW, just up today:

That video is like 1 & 1/2 years old, but thanks for sharing!

[Boombastix]

so after some comparing between serum and europa. and then reading all the posts about how easy it is to get some nice sound out of europa.

i pretty much can say that is not the case with me. i'm talking especially about bass design for heavy bass music. its so easy for me to come up with a nice thick harsh mid bass with serum. when i try to get to this with europa i struggle. and thats even before fx get involved. just the unaffected sound is so weak.

what you guys think?

Europa has limited FM capabilities, no osc->osc FM, just a few fixed ratios from the Modifiers, and one style of FM ("traditional"). If you understand FM sound making, then you know that the more interesting sounds comes when you apply envelopes (Europa can do that) with some slightly off FM ratios (Europa cannot do that). I also think the way Europa handles its partials bandwidth, makes it sound very round and smooth, something I find quite annoying as it seems to create muffled sounds that has these troublesome resonances built in, and thus, the sound does not sit very well in the mix.

FM8 can do whatever ratio you want basically with 6 operators but only one "traditional" FM type. RP Quad has two oscillators and you can do unusual FM types between them (4 types) and an additional 12! other types of cross modulations. Since both oscillators have their own set of PD and WS, the sonic ability simply explodes. You do have subs too, so it is in a sense a 2+2 Osc synth. I think both FM8 and Quad sites very well in mixes. Just wish Quad had the FX of Predator, and I have let team RP know.

I did however challenge myself to try to get a Moog style base out of Europa, adding modulations for drift and many other things that happens in a real Mini Moog, I probably spent 45 min doing it, then called up Legend's default patch to compare...there still was no comparison, quite disappointing actually. I spent another 1h just to get a great organ sound out of Europa, and it sure ended up being fantastic, but then did 2 fantastic organs in Quad in less time.

I think you can use Europa, like Adam said, for bells (resonating sounds) and pads (smooth sounds). I get better better and faster results for pretty much everything else in other synths.

[EnochLight]

I did however challenge myself to try to get a Moog style base out of Europa, adding modulations for drift and many other things that happens in a real Mini Moog, I probably spent 45 min doing it, then called up Legend's default patch to compare...there still was no comparison, quite disappointing actually.

Disappointing? Yeah, I'd be disappointed too if I spent 45 minutes doing that. Europa is a modern wavetable synth; The Legend is literally an accurately modelled analog synth based on a Moog Model D. I wouldn't expect to be able to get a Moog-style bass out of Europa, let alone try. That said, I've yet to here a convincing Moog-style bass from Serum either, so... there's that.

[Boombastix]

I did however challenge myself to try to get a Moog style base out of Europa, adding modulations for drift and many other things that happens in a real Mini Moog, I probably spent 45 min doing it, then called up Legend's default patch to compare...there still was no comparison, quite disappointing actually.

Disappointing? Yeah, I'd be disappointed too if I spent 45 minutes doing that. [emoji38] Europa is a modern wavetable synth; The Legend is literally an accurately modelled analog synth based on a Moog Model D. I wouldn't expect to be able to get a Moog-style bass out of Europa, let alone try. That said, I've yet to here a convincing Moog-style bass from Serum either, so... there's that.

Dude, I have several old analog synth, both mono and 6 voice, several old digital synths as well and have programmed synths and started making my own patches +20yrs ago. If you don't explore the capabilities and limitations of a synth you probably miss out of what it is best for. No need to be sarcastic when I share my experience...

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[EnochLight]

Dude, I have several old analog synth, both mono and 6 voice, several old digital synths as well and have programmed synths and started making my own patches +20yrs ago. If you don't explore the capabilities and limitations of a synth you probably miss out of what it is best for. No need to be sarcastic when I share my experience...

You misunderstand - there was no sarcasm intended. Sorry if it came across like that - intonation can easily be lost when posting on forums. I was merely trying to convey that The Legend is a specifically analog modelled synth that you should expect to sound spot on right out of the box in your example. Europa (and Serum) fall at the completely opposite end of the spectrum.

It's all good.

[antic604]

BTW, just up today:

That video is like 1 & 1/2 years old, but thanks for sharing!

Really? It showed up on Props' blog 2 days ago. Must've missed it the first time

https://www.propellerheads.com/blog

[Oquasec]

Expanse, Europa & thor do enough for me.
Subtractor covers a lot of stuff but damn those modern plugs do so much more.

[Soeno]

some guitarists use a lot of guitars - where is the problem?

[guitfnky]

some guitarists use a lot of guitars - where is the problem?

bank accounts. the problem is in their bank accounts.