Is Europa on par with Serum...or even better?

[Southgate]

I have Serum, Synthmaster One, ReSpire, Dune 2, Iris 2, Parsec 2, U-he synths, FM4 and a whole host of REs and Vsti. I am wondering...in a dizzy state...have we reached a synth Nirvana? Do I simply just concentrate on Europa and forget the rest? I'm p****d off learning synth after synth. I'd rather just master one synth...( I realize that each synth has it's own 'THANG' going on...

I really wanna just make good music...but spend my life looking for synths and functionality and, and, and...

...does that nonsense stop here? I hope so...

Sorry...but everything is soooo saturated...

Europa really is amazing. I might just have to draw the line and say..."let's master this one, if nothing else".

[JRJulius]

Yep, it’s the best move you’ll ever make. I’m not saying that Europa is perfect but you’re better off learning one synth inside and out rather than scratching the surface of an assortment.

Edit: I’m actually hard-pressed to find fault with Europa so maybe it IS perfect, but I don’t use Serum so I can’t compare fairly. I can say that it offers a complexity well above and beyond Ableton Wavetable and its methods of synthesis are distinct from Animoog.

[kuhliloach]

Yes Sir. Synth Nirvana has been reached. We've now consumed an enormous meal of synths. Yet I can sense what's next as the pendulum swings in the other direction: building the darn things ourselves on the Rack, software-modular style. This will lead right back to the banquet of pre-fab synths as the people truly learn what each component does, and their appreciation for what they already have is re-born! A never-ending pendulum.

https://soundcloud.com/noise-e/sets/bas ... -1/s-if4iC

^ I like FAP - Nedräkning Till Utrotningen (BI, MI, LIP)

[aeox]

Serum has way better FM capabilities, so does eXpanse.

[hurricane]

I like how you think you’d get unbiased feedback HERE.

[pjeudy]

1. How did you get all those software? did you pay for them?

2. You say "I really wanna just make good music" Buying/pirating every synth that comes along has ZERO impact on your music being good.

3.having to spend $427 plus dollars on 2 or 3 synth alone would force you to learn 1 or 2 synths.The economics of it should force you to only learn a couple of synths. That's the side benefit from buying your software.

4. Your approach to owning Synth is all wrong !! I haven't reached a synth Nirvana...since I only have 3 Vst synths. You seem to be wanting the Synth to make the music for you...that will NEVER EVER happen.

5. Finally you want to make Music that you like? then it's easy just fallow those few steps to the letter:
a) Stay off the internet and VSTi purchasing sites or VST Cracked website
b) Listen to music that Inspire you
c) Lock yourself and your home studio and make music with the synth that you have
d) it might take you weeks/months or longer, but the limited synths that you have + the fact that you are spending time having fun experimenting trying succeeding and can't forget failing... will automatically lead you to better knowing your 1 -2 synth and a better understanding of producing engineering, ear training.

Those are about a billion times more important then the number of synth that you might be willing to pay for or pirate. You don't believe me ? look at the situation that you are in? you listed 8 plus instrument synth that you have access to right now, that push past or near one thousand dollars.....and yet your asking "should I master just one synth"?

Limit yourself for a month or 2 to just one Mono and one Polyphonic synth...and just blackout in the studio...forget Reason talk forget Gearslutz, KVR ect.... forget all that...and blackout in your studio...$1,000 in synth can't help you. Music fundamentals will, developing a workflow that allows you to create while BEING INSPIRED WILL HELP YOU ..not owning EUROPA or SERUM or what ever you might be lusting for.

Spend hours dissecting your favorite track...ask yourself questions :
How did they mix that bass so well....how do you like the dynamic effect.....why doesn't it sound muddy? try cutting your own music at "known Muddy frequency's" and see if you notice a similarity to a well produced track etc....those things are priceless and worth more then any synth you bought or pirated.

[esselfortium]

Europa is great and versatile. Lots of synths are great and versatile. Pick a synth that feels approachable to you and really dig into it, whether it's this one or something else.

pjeudy's advice is good, also.

[hurricane]

And i like how you assumed the OP is a mad software pirate.

[Oquasec]

Since I pay for plugins and stuff it puts me into more of an "I must learn how to operate the plugin" mode.
Which in turn has me even spending hours with subtractor.

[CephaloPod]

.

[aeox]

Europa really is amazing. I might just have to draw the line and say..."let's master this one, if nothing else".

I'll clear up what I said in my previous post so it might be more helpful.

Europa has great sounding filters, good envelope functionality, mod matrix, unison/spread, etc. All the stuff you'd want to make most of any sound. Where it falls short is in the FM capabilities. You can't FM a sine wave with another oscillator like you can with eXpanse and Serum. This is something that they will probably address in the future and enables a lot of really cool sonic possibilities.

Apart from that, Serums FX section surpasses both Europa and eXpanse in every way possible. And this is coming from someone who doesn't even own Serum anymore! But to me that doesn't really matter because I don't use built in synth FX anyway.

Then, there is always the oscillator quality argument that can be brought up, but I think they are all close enough to where most people wouldn't know the difference anyway.

[cognitive]

I just watched a video showing Serum, Europa, and eXpanse morphing through the same wavetable.

Setting aside that the eXpanse settings weren't quite right for the test, I had difficulty hearing a difference between Serum and Europa based on a single wavetable oscillator. Side note, I listened through studio reference monitors turned up fairly loud.


To me, having the ability to load a Serum-compatible custom wavetable in Europa was a key missing piece to an already great sounding synth, and opens up so many many more possibilities, because the fundamental jumping off point of raw oscillator sounds was just multiplied almost infinitely.

I have eXpanse, and it is a MONSTER synth, no question. But Europa has something special too, and I find myself using it more and more.

[CephaloPod]

So where is a good source for downloading wavetables?

[cognitive]

So where is a good source for downloading wavetables?

I would say just google "serum wavetables" but you'll probably end up lots of links to sites with a virus, and I don't mean the fun sampled Access TI sort.

But here is a reddit link to get started:



I did not get virus warnings from the download link in the thread, so you SHOULD be okay. Also, it is my belief that above linked wavetable material does not violate any any copyright and has been gathered and compiled from free sources online.

Happy hunting.

[miscend]

Serum has way better FM capabilities, so does eXpanse.

That’s what FM synths (eg Dexed, PX7 etc) are for. I never expect any synth to be a master of all trades.

[miscend]

I like how you think you’d get unbiased feedback HERE.

I’ve only ever demo’ed both. But to be fair Serum sounds very digital. The filter is very clinical and if you’re not careful it all ends up being harsh sounding. So I’d say get Serum if you want pristine, clinical, sterile, digital sounds.

Expanse just sounds like the other Propellerheads synths. Even though it is a wavetable engine, it stilll has their DNA and signature all over the sound. But I think the filter in Expanse sh1ts all over the Serum filter.

[aeox]

Serum has way better FM capabilities, so does eXpanse.

That’s what FM synths (eg Dexed, PX7 etc) are for. I never expect any synth to be a master of all trades.

You can't load wavetables into those synths though. That's why Serum and eXpanse are so good because you can FM with wavetables.

[flightONE]

I was about to complain that Europa needed good comb filter for the master section... but since this is Reason I threw in a Thor and a Combinator and kept chugging along... this is exactly why I keep coming back to Reason over and over ...

[Loque]

I was about to complain that Europa needed good comb filter for the master section... but since this is Reason I threw in a Thor and a Combinator and kept chugging along... this is exactly why I keep coming back to Reason over and over ...

Exactly. But this solution is not a filter per voice, so keyboard tracking dies not work well. You can workaround it by using Distributor, but direct available filter types are appreciated.

[tobypearce]

@cognitive, Would you mind posting a link to the comparison video you mentioned? Tried searching and couldn't find it.

[aeox]

@cognitive, Would you mind posting a link to the comparison video you mentioned? Tried searching and couldn't find it.

http://junktrax.com/europa_vs_serum.mp4

Keep in mind that the eXpanse one wasn't tested correctly. It doesn't have crossfade/spectral morph enabled and has the filter on.

[Southgate]

I like how you think you’d get unbiased feedback HERE.

Feedback in any form helps form a decision...good or bad! That's what a forum is for.

Thanks

S

[Southgate]

1. How did you get all those software? did you pay for them?

2. You say "I really wanna just make good music" Buying/pirating every synth that comes along has ZERO impact on your music being good.

3.having to spend $427 plus dollars on 2 or 3 synth alone would force you to learn 1 or 2 synths.The economics of it should force you to only learn a couple of synths. That's the side benefit from buying your software.

4. Your approach to owning Synth is all wrong !! I haven't reached a synth Nirvana...since I only have 3 Vst synths. You seem to be wanting the Synth to make the music for you...that will NEVER EVER happen.

5. Finally you want to make Music that you like? then it's easy just fallow those few steps to the letter:
a) Stay off the internet and VSTi purchasing sites or VST Cracked website
b) Listen to music that Inspire you
c) Lock yourself and your home studio and make music with the synth that you have
d) it might take you weeks/months or longer, but the limited synths that you have + the fact that you are spending time having fun experimenting trying succeeding and can't forget failing... will automatically lead you to better knowing your 1 -2 synth and a better understanding of producing engineering, ear training.

Those are about a billion times more important then the number of synth that you might be willing to pay for or pirate. You don't believe me ? look at the situation that you are in? you listed 8 plus instrument synth that you have access to right now, that push past or near one thousand dollars.....and yet your asking "should I master just one synth"?

Limit yourself for a month or 2 to just one Mono and one Polyphonic synth...and just blackout in the studio...forget Reason talk forget Gearslutz, KVR ect.... forget all that...and blackout in your studio...$1,000 in synth can't help you. Music fundamentals will, developing a workflow that allows you to create while BEING INSPIRED WILL HELP YOU ..not owning EUROPA or SERUM or what ever you might be lusting for.

Spend hours dissecting your favorite track...ask yourself questions :
How did they mix that bass so well....how do you like the dynamic effect.....why doesn't it sound muddy? try cutting your own music at "known Muddy frequency's" and see if you notice a similarity to a well produced track etc....those things are priceless and worth more then any synth you bought or pirated.

I see where you are coming from...

20 years ago, I have to be honest (When I was broke as hell) I may have had a few cracked pieces of software. Being older and little more financially stable...I am proud to say that I have 100% legit software!

Your other points are very valid...and I do try to dissect every square inch of every bit that I listen to and create.

Cheers

[Southgate]

And i like how you assumed the OP is a mad software pirate.

Well batted sir!!

[Southgate]

I just watched a video showing Serum, Europa, and eXpanse morphing through the same wavetable.

Setting aside that the eXpanse settings weren't quite right for the test, I had difficulty hearing a difference between Serum and Europa based on a single wavetable oscillator. Side note, I listened through studio reference monitors turned up fairly loud.


To me, having the ability to load a Serum-compatible custom wavetable in Europa was a key missing piece to an already great sounding synth, and opens up so many many more possibilities, because the fundamental jumping off point of raw oscillator sounds was just multiplied almost infinitely.

I have eXpanse, and it is a MONSTER synth, no question. But Europa has something special too, and I find myself using it more and more.

Exactly the video that sparked this thread!