New Europa "User Wave" Feature. Not Getting It.

[KevTav]

Loaded up Europa.
Click in the User Wave window.
Samples to the left in the Browser
Choose sample I think sounds cool
Drag into Europa
Europa keeps initial patch. No sound difference
Tried initializing Europe completely by reseting device.
Try again....same outcome.

Where am I failing?

[esselfortium]

You have to select one of the user wave modes from the wavetable-picker dropdown menu in the Engine.

[KevTav]

You have to select one of the user wave modes from the wavetable-picker dropdown menu in the Engine.

Literally isn't working. I drag a wave in. Select "User Wave" in both the wave filer AND the Spectral Filter, and the sounds coming out just sound like a slightly different version of the patch that's already loaded. I've even watched the demo video and I'm following what the engineer did, I'm getting nothing close to the wave sounds I'm pulling into Europa.

NOTHING is sounding like the User Waves I'm dragging in.

[KevTav]

Literally picked a fucking ROOSTER wave sample to test. "Cocka doodle dooo" sound. Not even close to sounding like it. Just getting a sine wave sound. lame

[eXode]

It's made for wavetables and not one shot samples etc. If you use any old sample and expect it to play like in i.e. NN-19, it won't do that, it's not meant to do that.

Google for some free Serum wavetables and try those instead.

[KevTav]

It's made for wavetables and not one shot samples etc. If you use any old sample and expect it to play like in i.e. NN-19, it won't do that, it's not meant to do that.

Google for some free Serum wavetables and try those instead.

When I hit LOAD inside the user wave window, it loads up a bunch of one shots, so I thought those were the sounds. They're even under a file called "WAVETABLES"

[MattiasHG]

It's made for wavetables and not one shot samples etc. If you use any old sample and expect it to play like in i.e. NN-19, it won't do that, it's not meant to do that.

Google for some free Serum wavetables and try those instead.

It kind of can though. If you load a sample and want to hear the sample, you need to manually "play through it". This can be done by for example creating an envelope with an upwards ramp and modulating the Position with it. That's like playing the playhead forward on a tape.

[WongoTheSane]

Literally picked a fucking ROOSTER wave sample to test. "Cocka doodle dooo" sound. Not even close to sounding like it. Just getting a sine wave sound. lame

1) Reset device (if you don't, and use the default patch instead, so many things are happening and cross-modulating that you won't hear the difference).
2) Draw a wav onto Europa.
3) Select User Wave Smooth in the wave menu of Engine 1.
4) Play a note and move the "Shape" knob at the same time: you'll scroll through the frames of your wav/wavetable.

Now instead of moving Shape by hand, select a modulation source in the "Env1" knob that's right next to "Shape", like for instance "LFO1", and turn the knob up. Now LFO 1 is modulating the position of the oscillator inside that wavetable (or simply leave Env1, in which case the position will be dependent on the envelope). Whether the results are musical or not will depend on the wav obviously, and how it's modulated, but at least that should get you going!

[KevTav]

Literally picked a fucking ROOSTER wave sample to test. "Cocka doodle dooo" sound. Not even close to sounding like it. Just getting a sine wave sound. lame

1) Reset device (if you don't, and use the default patch instead, so many things are happening and cross-modulating that you won't hear the difference).
2) Draw a wav onto Europa.
3) Select User Wave Smooth in the wave menu of Engine 1.
4) Play a note and move the "Shape" knob at the same time: you'll scroll through the frames of your wav/wavetable.

Now instead of moving Shape by hand, select a modulation source in the "Env1" knob that's right next to "Shape", like for instance "LFO1", and turn the knob up. Now LFO 1 is modulating the position of the oscillator inside that wavetable (or simply leave Env1, in which case the position will be dependent on the envelope). Whether the results are musical or not will depend on the wav obviously, and how it's modulated, but at least that should get you going!

Did every step. Nothing is sounding remotely close to the waves I'm dragging in. SLIGHT difference per wave pulled in, but it's mostly sounding like simple SINE waves. I'm telling you, nothing even close to the waves pulled in. Trust me, I did exactly what you said. Thanks for the attempt though.

[WongoTheSane]

1) Reset device (if you don't, and use the default patch instead, so many things are happening and cross-modulating that you won't hear the difference).
2) Draw a wav onto Europa.
3) Select User Wave Smooth in the wave menu of Engine 1.
4) Play a note and move the "Shape" knob at the same time: you'll scroll through the frames of your wav/wavetable.

Now instead of moving Shape by hand, select a modulation source in the "Env1" knob that's right next to "Shape", like for instance "LFO1", and turn the knob up. Now LFO 1 is modulating the position of the oscillator inside that wavetable (or simply leave Env1, in which case the position will be dependent on the envelope). Whether the results are musical or not will depend on the wav obviously, and how it's modulated, but at least that should get you going!

Did every step. Nothing is sounding remotely close to the waves I'm dragging in. SLIGHT difference per wave pulled in, but it's mostly sounding like simple SINE waves. I'm telling you, nothing even close to the waves pulled in. Trust me, I did exactly what you said. Thanks for the attempt though.

That's what wavetables sound like if you don't modulate them, i.e. move the Shape knob constantly. The art is in choosing the right wavetable, and then in modulating it in a way that makes it sound right. Take eXode and Mattias' advice: download a couple of proper wavetables (you can get back to your own once you've mastered the process), and don't forget to modulate the position by modulating the Shape knob, otherwise you won't have a wavetable, you'll just have a wave...

[KevTav]

Pulled in a wave called "JungleBird". Literally a bird in the jungle. Getting a sine wave. This sucks.

[Loque]

1) Reset device (if you don't, and use the default patch instead, so many things are happening and cross-modulating that you won't hear the difference).
2) Draw a wav onto Europa.
3) Select User Wave Smooth in the wave menu of Engine 1.
4) Play a note and move the "Shape" knob at the same time: you'll scroll through the frames of your wav/wavetable.

Now instead of moving Shape by hand, select a modulation source in the "Env1" knob that's right next to "Shape", like for instance "LFO1", and turn the knob up. Now LFO 1 is modulating the position of the oscillator inside that wavetable (or simply leave Env1, in which case the position will be dependent on the envelope). Whether the results are musical or not will depend on the wav obviously, and how it's modulated, but at least that should get you going!

Did every step. Nothing is sounding remotely close to the waves I'm dragging in. SLIGHT difference per wave pulled in, but it's mostly sounding like simple SINE waves. I'm telling you, nothing even close to the waves pulled in. Trust me, I did exactly what you said. Thanks for the attempt though.

I dont have a view of your sample, but i guess you know what a wavetable is? If your sample consists mostly of sine-like-waves, when it probably audit like sine waves... If you want to play the sample, drop it into a sampler or scroll through the positions in your wavetable synth.

[esselfortium]

Upload your patch so someone can see what it's missing.

[KevTav]

Did every step. Nothing is sounding remotely close to the waves I'm dragging in. SLIGHT difference per wave pulled in, but it's mostly sounding like simple SINE waves. I'm telling you, nothing even close to the waves pulled in. Trust me, I did exactly what you said. Thanks for the attempt though.

That's what wavetables sound like if you don't modulate them, i.e. move the Shape knob constantly. The art is in choosing the right wavetable, and then in modulating it in a way that makes it sound right. Take eXode and Mattias' advice: download a couple of proper wavetables (you can get back to your own once you've mastered the process), and don't forget to modulate the position by modulating the Shape knob, otherwise you won't have a wavetable, you'll just have a wave...

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult here and I REALLY appreciate the help. But I'm modulating and tweeking every possible knob, shape, filter....they're just not in getting in the same PLANET as the original waves sound. Like, not even close. I was picking extreme waves/sounds, like JUNGLE animals and phone ring sounds, it's all coming out as simple sines with variations of modulation or filtering.

[mataya]

Sine "snapshot" repeating very fast is what you hear when you load a sine into oscillator and play a note. If you play low enough note, you'll hear a single cycle(like a click) playing one after another.
When you load a sample, europa takes a snapshot(single cycle) of part of your loaded wav and repeats it fast. Imagine you loaded wav as lots of evolving snapshots over time. A snapshot might look very wavy and peaky(lots of different harmonics) and depending on how harmonic it is will produce a different sound. The fun starts when you glide/move/drive/ trough snapshots with the position knob.

Am I right Europa is doing this with user waves?
Still on 9.5, so I don't know the synth.

M

[KevTav]

The PATCHES that Europa has sound great. But trying the User Wave method seems to be not working. I'm talking extreme sounds like animals, fire alarms, roosters, monkeys, a girl LAUGHING.....they're all coming out like Sine waves. Yes I modulate them, filter, turn every single knob in Europa, but nothing is sound remotely close to the User Wave. It just sounds like dead simple, lifeless Sine sounds, with the ability to modulate a BIT. They even sound super Mono and faded....like they all have a "tin can" effect. I really don't think this is how it's supposed to be.

I really don't get this.

[Loque]

The PATCHES that Europa has sound great. But trying the User Wave method seems to be not working. I'm talking extreme sounds like animals, fire alarms, roosters, monkeys, a girl LAUGHING.....they're all coming out like Sine waves. Yes I modulate them, filter, turn every single knob in Europa, but nothing is sound remotely close to the User Wave. It just sounds like dead simple, lifeless Sine sounds, with the ability to modulate a BIT.

I really don't get this.

Again, take a sampler for that like Grain. In wavetable context you have only fundamental wave parts. Only through modification, filtering and modulation you can create more complex sounds. Should not be too difficult to understand the difference between a wavetable and a sample.

[KevTav]

The PATCHES that Europa has sound great. But trying the User Wave method seems to be not working. I'm talking extreme sounds like animals, fire alarms, roosters, monkeys, a girl LAUGHING.....they're all coming out like Sine waves. Yes I modulate them, filter, turn every single knob in Europa, but nothing is sound remotely close to the User Wave. It just sounds like dead simple, lifeless Sine sounds, with the ability to modulate a BIT.

I really don't get this.

Again, take a sampler for that like Grain. In wavetable context you have only fundamental wave parts. Only through modification, filtering and modulation you can create more complex sounds. Should not be too difficult to understand the difference between a wavetable and a sample.

I was "Sampling" back in in 1993 with an Ensoniq ASR 10. How old were you? Just curious.

I know the difference.

[Loque]

Again, take a sampler for that like Grain. In wavetable context you have only fundamental wave parts. Only through modification, filtering and modulation you can create more complex sounds. Should not be too difficult to understand the difference between a wavetable and a sample.

I was "Sampling" back in in 1993 with an Ensoniq ASR 10. How old were you? Just curious.

I know the difference.

Probably older than you, i did sampling back in 85. I guess you dont know the difference, that is why i asked.

[joeyluck]

If you are following Wongo's instructions, I'm not sure what the problem may be or what you are expecting.

First, be sure you are resetting the device.
Also, if you click the folder icon ("browse sample") for the user wave, that will direct you to some wavetables in the factory sound bank. Located here: Reason Factory Sound Bank > Other Samples > Wavetables

[eXode]

Extract this patch and load it. If you play C3 you should get the rooster without trouble. User Wave Smooth is better in general for non-tables.

Works with many of the other samples in the Reason Factory Sound Bank\Other Samples\FX-Vox folder.

[mataya]

What happens when you move the position knob, as other suggested? You should be getting movement in harmonics. This might not be that obvious, depending on the sample you choose. This is a wavetable synth and I would recommend using wavetables. It's a very different type of a wav sample sitting on your hard drive. I think "user waves smooth" is what makes a decent wavetable out of your loaded wav sample.
My conclusion, but it can also be read from other post in this thread, is that you have to be aware it's not a sample player, it's a "user sample cycle extractor", which can serve as a oscillator shape.
If you combine sine with saw and a square and triangle and a bit of noise, you get a cycle that looks as some kind of mix of all those cycles and it's a new shape...being repeated fast when playing a note.
Imagine your loaded sample as a big container of different cycles and europa's oscillator is using it instead of sine, saw and the usual...AND it can move trough them over time.
I think there is an option in grain for this similar behavior.
I might be wrong and like I said I'm on 9.5 , but I think this is what you're dealing with here.
If you have Nostromo, you can try it visually...just go trough different snapshots/cycles/waves and you'll hear small differences between a lot of them. I think you're experiencing the same thing in europa. Difference between Nostromo and Europa is that you can load your sample and find a cycle that is not available in Nostromo's(huge) list of cycles.

Someone please correct me if I'm off the road here.

tx
M

[KevTav]

I was "Sampling" back in in 1993 with an Ensoniq ASR 10. How old were you? Just curious.

I know the difference.

Probably older than you, i did sampling back in 85. I guess you dont know the difference, that is why i asked.

[Removed by mods]

#1 Question , why is the default FILE that opens from the user wave window say "WAVETABLES" then? Literally?

[Adabler]

I managed to achieve what you want with these settings:

[KevTav]

If you are following Wongo's instructions, I'm not sure what the problem may be or what you are expecting.

First, be sure you are resetting the device.
Also, if you click the folder icon ("browse sample") for the user wave, that will direct you to some wavetables in the factory sound bank. Located here: Reason Factory Sound Bank > Other Samples > Wavetables

Did this. Exactly.