What do Propellerhead staff do at work all day?

[Psuper]

Theres no examples of users coming up with great features for applications (that the developers couldn't already see before) or applications getting better the more people have a say in how they should be.

I'm going to give you a pass assuming you were fuming for some reason based on the rest of your message, however there's millions of examples of both and not just in the software world. Open source alone is both of those examples and superior in many ways to the proprietary equivalent. Games? SO many implementations or ideas based directly from alpha/beta feedback. I could go on, however I provided examples. Developers typically desire if not depend on user feedback, and woe to those who ignore it.

[O1B]

no examples... of users... coming up with apps... that devs ... or 'better apps' ... couldn't...


I know you hold on to that BCR2000, but - come on!
First, "Props! Try putting the CV in the FRONT!!! How's that for innovation?"
Attenuating anf flipping and twiddling and flipping and attenuating some more - in 2018?!

Is Reason the Reason Rack, or can Reason truly become Reason Modular.
The Rack is old school - Up and Down. Literally. Scroll... up.... down.... up... down....

How about Modules I build so I can see my Drum Module. Machines, Envelopes, LFO, Samples... - separate from my Synth module - if I choose ?
VCV is what Reason should have accommodated long ago.
And Reason's ability to GUI a modular environment - as is - would blow VCV away!!! IMO.

But screw my ideas, what I have seen in the modular world couldn't touch Reason - if I could access Envelopes, and VCAs, and, EQs, and .... just a little easier.
I think Propellerhead better consider this before DAW Modular takes them OUT.


Second, DeepnDark - a member here - quoted at least three (3) - count em - three! features he came up with himself - for Props!

It's like messing yourself and your partner up instead of simply breaking up the relationship. Do you really think there is ANY point to this discussion? Reason is what it is and no matter how much people like to think that they "push the developers" it's simply not true. Theres no examples of users coming up with great features for applications (that the developers couldn't already see before) or applications getting better the more people have a say in how they should be (Reason being a prime example with parts of the team wanting VST and parts obviously not, now we have... something...).

Become a fucking developer if you think you know... ok?

[normen]

no examples... of users... coming up with apps... that devs ... or 'better apps' ... couldn't...

I have to agree: Whaaat?

Was that a sentence? Or an attempt at a quote? Whats 'better apps' doing in there?

Anyway you didn't give any examples for users inventing great features, I'm all ears but it's still my opinion that no software ever got better by it's users defining how it should work. Thats usually the beginning of the end of a piece of software.

Developers seeing how users use their app and seeing what annoys them most - thats a different thing.

[Psuper]

no examples... of users... coming up with apps... that devs ... or 'better apps' ... couldn't...

I have to agree: Whaaat?

Was that a sentence? Or an attempt at a quote? Whats 'better apps' doing in there?

Anyway you didn't give any examples for users inventing great features, I'm all ears but it's still my opinion that no software ever got better by it's users defining how it should work. Thats usually the beginning of the end of a piece of software.

Developers seeing how users use their app and seeing what annoys them most - thats a different thing.

I just gave you examples, and with a light hand. I can be much more pointedly about it though if only flair and crazy photos catch your attention.

[Creativemind]

I imagine there's a really big room with floor-to-ceiling windows. People start turning up around 11am and sit around drinking coffee. Then someone suggests a game of Doom on the LAN and that covers things until lunch. After lunch (at about 3pm) somebody puts on an some late 90s hard-euro-trance and everyone sits back and starts to get into the mood for work. By 4-4.30 everyone is psyched to really get stuff done. For the next 30 mins the place is frantic as people power up their laptops, clean their screens and write a few words on a whiteboard like 'User Focus' and 'More Romplers'. Then damn! Its 5pm and time to go home. The place is empty again by 5.15 apart from the intern whose job it is to sweep all the days user requests and bug reports into the bin.

Lol! there's always a cynic.

[QVprod]

I’m Live 10 beta tester and every 1-4 week I get new beta version with a list of something added and improved. I can see they’re working all the time


Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk

It's a real shame Propellerhead don't do this. There would be such an active community of testers. Instead they just use us to find bugs at the last minute while Mattias pretends they are really interested in our feedback. They follow the Apple approach of 'everything we do is great so we don't need user feedback because they'll never be able to improve on our own ideas'.

They actually do have something like this in place. Their test Pilot Program. It's just not open for any and everyone to join as we know Props prefer to be private about their developments. They took applications for this last year. I'm at a loss though with the "they don't listen to user requests" thing considering the list of user requests that have been added since version 6. Especially after adding VST support which was the #1 request for several years. Sure for better or worse they work at their own speed, but every company does that.

[EnochLight]

They actually do have something like this in place. Their test Pilot Program. It's just not open for any and everyone to join as we know Props prefer to be private about their developments. They took applications for this last year. I'm at a loss though with the "they don't listen to user requests" thing considering the list of user requests that have been added since version 6. Especially after adding VST support which was the #1 request for several years. Sure for better or worse they work at their own speed, but every company does that.

How dare you make a logical response that seems rational! This thread is supposed to be about pure speculation into the inner workings of a company that no one has any insight into.

[S1GNL]

Oh, they do pretty much except fixing issues and adding features users want to have for over a decade ...

[QVprod]

They actually do have something like this in place. Their test Pilot Program. It's just not open for any and everyone to join as we know Props prefer to be private about their developments. They took applications for this last year. I'm at a loss though with the "they don't listen to user requests" thing considering the list of user requests that have been added since version 6. Especially after adding VST support which was the #1 request for several years. Sure for better or worse they work at their own speed, but every company does that.

How dare you make a logical response that seems rational! This thread is supposed to be about pure speculation into the inner workings of a company that no one has any insight into.

[Goodbye]

It's a real shame Propellerhead don't do this. There would be such an active community of testers. Instead they just use us to find bugs at the last minute while Mattias pretends they are really interested in our feedback. They follow the Apple approach of 'everything we do is great so we don't need user feedback because they'll never be able to improve on our own ideas'.

They actually do have something like this in place. Their test Pilot Program. It's just not open for any and everyone to join as we know Props prefer to be private about their developments. They took applications for this last year. I'm at a loss though with the "they don't listen to user requests" thing considering the list of user requests that have been added since version 6. Especially after adding VST support which was the #1 request for several years. Sure for better or worse they work at their own speed, but every company does that.

I never said they haven't added any features, though the ones they've added are generally half-done and buggy. Yay VSTs, Boo the performance is sorrowful. Yay themes. Boo only one theme and they couldn't even be bothered to do the mixer and the ReGroove Mixer. Yay Players, only they never did anything else with them. I've seen so many small, perfectly valid, sane, minimal requests to make slight incremental improvements and they have literally failed to implement any of them. I'm not really talking about the big-ticket More features that are generally great for some and useless to others, I'm talking about the small details and day-to-day features that make working with an application better: more fun or more productive.

[QVprod]

They actually do have something like this in place. Their test Pilot Program. It's just not open for any and everyone to join as we know Props prefer to be private about their developments. They took applications for this last year. I'm at a loss though with the "they don't listen to user requests" thing considering the list of user requests that have been added since version 6. Especially after adding VST support which was the #1 request for several years. Sure for better or worse they work at their own speed, but every company does that.

I never said they haven't added any features, though the ones they've added are generally half-done and buggy. Yay VSTs, Boo the performance is sorrowful. Yay themes. Boo only one theme and they couldn't even be bothered to do the mixer and the ReGroove Mixer. Yay Players, only they never did anything else with them. I've seen so many small, perfectly valid, sane, minimal requests to make slight incremental improvements and they have literally failed to implement any of them. I'm not really talking about the big-ticket More features that are generally great for some and useless to others, I'm talking about the small details and day-to-day features that make working with an application better: more fun or more productive.

They've done those as well. Stuff like being able to adjust notes from both sides, and mp3 import. Everything else comes down to their work speed and what they feel is important to change.

[avasopht]

Reason 9 gave us vocal pitch editor, VSTs, Ableton Link support, plugin delay compensation, players, audio to midi and bounce in place. Let's not pretend that's not huge.

Reason 10 came out shortly after Reason 9.5, so it's understandable if v10 doesn't have as much new features at launch. But we did get Europa and Grain. Let's also not pretend they're not brand new synths that add serious value to the rack. Thor is still my go to synth, but both Europa and Grain are pretty valuable.

That's not even mentioning other content included in Reason such as Klang, extra sounds and Humana etc (which I don't really use much myself, but they're valuable nonetheless).

[guitfnky]

Reason 9 gave us vocal pitch editor, VSTs, Ableton Link support, plugin delay compensation, players, audio to midi and bounce in place. Let's not pretend that's not huge.

Reason 10 came out shortly after Reason 9.5, so it's understandable if v10 doesn't have as much new features at launch. But we did get Europa and Grain. Let's also not pretend they're not brand new synths that add serious value to the rack. Thor is still my go to synth, but both Europa and Grain are pretty valuable.

That's not even mentioning other content included in Reason such as Klang, extra sounds and Humana etc (which I don't really use much myself, but they're valuable nonetheless).

^^^this.^^^

it's funny how many people had been critical about Reason 10 just being a content update, when people had been up in arms about the need for a content update for at least 2 or 3 releases prior. if they hadn't just implemented VSTs (when everyone could finally start using their VST instruments), I'm pretty sure 10 would have been hailed by many of those same people. but instead, they get to be mad that we don't have track folders or automation curves or whatever, now. every release we get, they're literally giving us stuff that we've been asking for. #shrug

[Psuper]

Reason 9 gave us vocal pitch editor, VSTs, Ableton Link support, plugin delay compensation, players, audio to midi and bounce in place. Let's not pretend that's not huge.

Reason 10 came out shortly after Reason 9.5, so it's understandable if v10 doesn't have as much new features at launch. But we did get Europa and Grain. Let's also not pretend they're not brand new synths that add serious value to the rack. Thor is still my go to synth, but both Europa and Grain are pretty valuable.

That's not even mentioning other content included in Reason such as Klang, extra sounds and Humana etc (which I don't really use much myself, but they're valuable nonetheless).

Value is based on individual perception. Anecdotal evidence suggests to me that R10 was a bust, and R11 direction will be the cusp at which I decide to continue fully supporting Props and the RE devs, or go all in on VSTs and a bit of RE if it strikes a chord with me.

We've done this dance so many times here on RT... we all know some find hand-fed synth upgrades and 3rd party crippled packs to be great while others find it borderline insulting. Given the modular approach of the RE model and the multitude of wants and needs of users, I believe the latter is more common. I don't get overly emotional about it as I don't pigeon-hole myself -- it's ultimately Propellerhead and RE devs who rise or fall based entirely on Propellerheads' reputation and decisions or lack thereof.

We as users have a responsibility to state what we like or don't like if we care at all about the things we're passionate about. Propellerhead can take it to heart or flush it, and their track record is undeniably more in the flush category. Regardless if you agree or disagree, its not our ass on the line, it's Propellerhead and the RE devs.

If anything, you better be confident in what you propose, criticize or defend, cause Propellerhead, if they are listening, will almost always take the path of least resistance, and that's not helping anyone at all.

[guitfnky]

anecdotes are also (often) based on individual perception.

[Ostermilk]

This thread is an hallucinogen.

Of course most, if not all hallucinations are based on individual perception.

[Psuper]

anecdotes are also (often) based on individual perception.

They're always based on individual perception.

[EnochLight]

Props rarely read these forums. Hopefully all of the doom sayers are sending your feature requests and complaints to their website and social network channels.

[guitfnky]

anecdotes are also (often) based on individual perception.

They're always based on individual perception.

the anecdotes themselves; not necessarily. you can have an anecdote that's 100% verifiably correct; choosing which anecdotes to use, however...

and that's exactly my point. your suggestion that R10 was a bust/most users feel insulted with major updates/Props undeniably flushes most suggestions - is just an opinion; one it seems you're trying to sell as something more.

[TheNoog]

I imagine there's a really big room with floor-to-ceiling windows. People start turning up around 11am and sit around drinking coffee. Then someone suggests a game of Doom on the LAN and that covers things until lunch. After lunch (at about 3pm) somebody puts on an some late 90s hard-euro-trance and everyone sits back and starts to get into the mood for work. By 4-4.30 everyone is psyched to really get stuff done. For the next 30 mins the place is frantic as people power up their laptops, clean their screens and write a few words on a whiteboard like 'User Focus' and 'More Romplers'. Then damn! Its 5pm and time to go home. The place is empty again by 5.15 apart from the intern whose job it is to sweep all the days user requests and bug reports into the bin.

Lol! there's always a cynic.

That's not a cynic. That's someone who either read "Masters of Doom" about ID software, or maybe even worked there in the 90's.

[Psuper]

They're always based on individual perception.

the anecdotes themselves; not necessarily. you can have an anecdote that's 100% verifiably correct; choosing which anecdotes to use, however...

and that's exactly my point. your suggestion that R10 was a bust/most users feel insulted with major updates/Props undeniably flushes most suggestions - is just an opinion; one it seems you're trying to sell as something more.

Perhaps to someone who doesn't know what "Anecdotal Evidence" means.

99% of every response from every individual in every thread is opinion. However if you feel I stated my opinion in a way that is more compelling because I used common sense, experience, and clarity in my reasoning that lead me to my opinion... Hmm well great, thanks!

[TheNoog]

Reason 9 gave us vocal pitch editor, VSTs, Ableton Link support, plugin delay compensation, players, audio to midi and bounce in place. Let's not pretend that's not huge.

That was an alright upgrade.

Reason 10 came out shortly after Reason 9.5, so it's understandable if v10 doesn't have as much new features at launch. But we did get Europa and Grain. Let's also not pretend they're not brand new synths that add serious value to the rack.

They don't add anything for people who don't want them. They're devices and should have been launched in the RE shop. Toting them around as a huge "upgrade" is ridiculous. It's fluff, nothing else.

[guitfnky]

99% of every response from every individual in every thread is opinion. However if you feel I stated my opinion in a way that is more compelling because I used common sense, experience, and clarity in my reasoning that lead me to my opinion... Hmm well great, thanks!

close. experience only (with 'personal' as the required qualifier), and less compelling, but otherwise, you've nailed it.

[Psuper]

99% of every response from every individual in every thread is opinion. However if you feel I stated my opinion in a way that is more compelling because I used common sense, experience, and clarity in my reasoning that lead me to my opinion... Hmm well great, thanks!

close. experience only (with 'personal' as the required qualifier), and less compelling, but otherwise, you've nailed it.

I see the wink, so I'm going to assume you don't really require "Personal" to be stated verbose, and in fact you realize this is implicit when people state opinions.

[guitfnky]

I see the wink, so I'm going to assume you don't really require "Personal" to be stated verbose, and in fact you realize this is implicit when people state said opinions.

true, I don't, but since we were talking about anecdotal evidence, and that can include the experiences of others, I felt it warranted to specify explicitly. I kind of love the turn this has taken. it's fun.

I do get the criticisms of Reason... it's definitely strange to not have some of the simple stuff that other DAWs have had for a long time now. I just don't see it as a failing piece of software with lazy development, myself, is all.