Custom Program Names for external MIDI device?

[Fotu]

Is there a means of creating custom text names for Programs (patches) for an external MIDI device?

Specific example: I have a guitar effects processor used during live play with Reason driving a backing track. I add an External MIDI device to Reason to send program changes to that guitar processor at appropriate times. I can do this using Program values (1, 16, 22, and so forth), but I'd prefer to see them displayed as text name 'Clean rhythm', 'Dist Lead', etc.

Is there a way to create such a profile in Reason?

(Trying to do something that was possible in another previously used DAW)

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Just a thought.

Add the EMI to a combinator with a CV8x4 and CV select switch (which are both free)
The using the CVx8 you can set up 8 program changes
Route that through the CV select
from the CV select to the CV1 in on the combinator (remembering to set it to unipolar)
map it in the program to point the CV1 to program change

On the CV select switch you can just type the name in and there is a snap as well which is usful for live play allowing you to hit the button early knowing it won't change until you hit the next bar etc.

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PoohBear

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My Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqCNsA ... p4cQF4j-8A
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My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
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[Fotu]

Add the EMI to a combinator with a CV8x4 and CV select switch...

Thanks PoohBear, that's clever and certainly not an approach I would have thought of. I'll give this a try. (Sure seems like something like this should be built-in, but I suppose EMIs are considered to be mostly 'historical' these days...)

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Add the EMI to a combinator with a CV8x4 and CV select switch...

Thanks PoohBear, that's clever and certainly not an approach I would have thought of. I'll give this a try. (Sure seems like something like this should be built-in, but I suppose EMIs are considered to be mostly 'historical' these days...)

I should add you could cable up the CV select switches together to create a full 128 patch bank...

Note: I do so much with the EMI, in fact my youtube channel seams to features so much. not trying to plug my channel but I do a lot with EMI, loopback and external devices, you may find it useful. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqCNsA ... p4cQF4j-8A

[Fotu]

I should add you could cable up the CV select switches together to create a full 128 patch bank...

Yes, I was thinking the same. I really only need a couple dozen patches so a smaller set would do the trick.

Thanks for the youtube channel link, looks good! (Some of my old MIDI equipment dates back from the 80s; even had an old TX7 hooked up the other day

[Fotu]

Hi Poohbear... I've been giving this config a test drive (including a simple '1 bank' version with 1 Select and another 'multi-bank' version with multiple Selects together). It indeed works, and I can record the Select events and see it changing the Program values in the EMI as I punch Select buttons, both when recording and when playing back the recorded Select tracks.

However, one puzzle: I can't figure out how to record the resulting Program change values in the EMI track. I've tried multiple ways to do this, including enabling Program Change automation for the EMI, but nothing seems to record. I'm suspect I'm missing something fundamental about the model here; e.g., maybe EMI recording will only capture events from the external MIDI controller (or manual changes to the rack values for automation).

Do you have some insight into what I might be missing here, conceptually and practically? And whether there are some alternate steps or methods to get to recorded Program Change events?

(To recap goals: My ultimate goal is to record the resulting Program Change events in some track, so it is included in an Exported MIDI file to be later played back independently of Reason. This exercise is to see if I could put a more friendly UI on the Program selections compared to the brute force method of just editing/automating with numeric Program numbers and some paper lookup table.)

[Dante]

This looks great - but what is the TS8450 ? I don't have that and couldn't find it in shop - just the CV In on the Combinator which doesn't have the option to be Unipolar or Bipolar.

Oops - correction - I found it by hitting the 'Show Devices' on combinator !

This is awesome

[Carly(Poohbear)]

You can not record CV (yes you can convert it to audio and record that, then on playback convert the audio back to CV).

So one way to record the result of CV is to send it out via the EMI, hit a loopback and control a parameter (knob, fader,button etc.) that can be automated.

Slapped this video together about it...

PoohBear

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My Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqCNsA ... p4cQF4j-8A
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My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
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[Carly(Poohbear)]

This looks great - but what is the TS8450 ? I don't have that and couldn't find it in shop - just the CV In on the Combinator which doesn't have the option to be Unipolar or Bipolar.

Oops - correction - I found it by hitting the 'Show Devices' on combinator !

This is awesome

I had to laugh my self as I was thinking what the hell is a TS8450, something I look at every day....

[ljekio]

I can do this using Program values (1, 16, 22, and so forth), but I'd prefer to see them displayed as text name 'Clean rhythm', 'Dist Lead', etc.

No, text info you can transmit only by special lua codec to some midi hardware like midi control keyboard, etc.
I don't think that is possible to transfer this info to any external device because it requires a send sysex data.

[Fotu]

Slapped this video together about it...

Thanks so much for taking the time to put this explanation together! And I figured the right solution would involve use of a MIDI loopback

but what is the TS8450?

Ha! I initially had the same reaction...

[zumBeispiel]

... I can't figure out how to record the resulting Program change values in the EMI track. I've tried multiple ways to do this, including enabling Program Change automation for the EMI, but nothing seems to record ...

If you only want to record your changing program while pressing Select' buttons, then you should just create a track for Select, hit record and press Select' buttons while you need to.

Select.png

[Fotu]

Ljekio:

I don't think that is possible to transfer this info to any external device because it requires a send sysex data.

Actually I don't really need to send the text itself to an external device... I was just looking for a way to be able to view text names for patches when programming them for an external MIDI device as part of a Reason song (rather than only by patch number).

(I admit I'm trying to do something I could do in the 90s with old MIDI-focused DAWs, where you could load up custom profiles with text names for patches and also text names for notes (e.g. for percussion, lights, or other devices with note mapping, so you don't have to keep on hand separate 'name to number' cheat sheets for these kinds of mappings.)

[Fotu]

If you only want to record your changing program while pressing Select' buttons, then you should just create a track for Select, hit record and press Select' buttons while you need to.

I agree that works if the objective is just to reproduce the program changes when playing the song back from Reason. However, I have this additional objective that I want to export the resulting MIDI file so the track with the Program Changes can be played independently from Reason as a SMF to trigger the patch changes during a live performance (in parallel/sync with an audio backing track). Thus I really need the actual MIDI Program Changes recorded, which I think Poohbear's last advice with loopback will get me.

(In this application I use Reason to produce backing tracks, ultimately exported as audio files. Reason is not used during live performance. I also play some simple SMFs along with the audio files during live performance to automate efx patch changes.)

[Fotu]

As follow-up to the OP and using PoohBear's techniques, here are a couple of banks I can use for recording dynamic guitar fx patches during a song, such that the recorded MIDI track (exported to an SMF) can be used to automate the guitar fx changes during a live performance, played against an audio backing track derived from the rest of the Reason song tracks.

The advantage is it keeps the performance-time MIDI together with the backing track audio source; better for integrated documentation in case of future editing, etc. (Nice that on playback you can watch the Select buttons light up to easily see what patch had been selected when.)

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I'm still undecided if all these moving parts are worth the advantage of showing friendly patch names when recording them and for documenting them within the song file, versus the brute force method of just recording patch numbers via editing or with some external controller. But either way this was a great learning exercise.. thanks Poohbear!

(Next up, how to best capture (and document) lighting automation presuming my exported MIDI file drives DMX software using MIDI note selections... Should be similar to the program change exercise...)

[Carly(Poohbear)]

I'm still undecided if all these moving parts are worth the advantage of showing friendly patch names when recording them and for documenting them within the song file, versus the brute force method of just recording patch numbers via editing or with some external controller.

You have a template now so going forward it will be quicker, also a well documented setup helps when looking back on a project.. (and like you it's a great fun learning experience)..

I also use a VST called VSTNotepad by CodeFN42, a free VST, great for keeping basic notes.

[Fotu]

You have a template now so going forward it will be quicker, also a well documented setup helps when looking back on a project.. (and like you it's a great fun learning experience)..

I also use a VST called VSTNotepad by CodeFN42, a free VST, great for keeping basic notes.

Great tip re the VSTNotepad. In case the gist of all this is useful to others, here's my thumbnail (application specific) doc stuffed into this combi with VSTnotepad (so I won't forget!):

Code: Select all

External MIDI Program Change Recorder
See rear of panel for methodology which involves:
 - CV8X4 to establish CV values corresponding to each Program
 - SELECT CV Switch to:
   a. Select a particular patch CV value
   b. Select a bank (since SELECT only supports max 8 selections)
 - EMI Loopback: Uses CC 00 for singular purpose of receiving the CV
    value from SELECT (Bank) and converting it to a MIDI signal.
    This EMI uses special 'LoopMIDIPort'.
 - EMI Gtr Efx Pgm - Has 'Remote Override Mapping' on the Program 
    param to use CC 00 from the special 'LoopMIDI Controller', allowing
    Program values for this EMI to be recorded in an automation lane.
To record Efx for a song:
 - Enable record for the Param Automation for *all* of Bank, Bank 1,
   Bank 2, and Gtr Efx Pgm.
 - Record, while pressing Bank and/or patch buttons on SELECT devices.
 - Tip: To change to patch in a different bank, first select the patch in the 
    new bank *before* changing to that bank, to avoid spurious pgm change.
 - Only the Program Change from the Gtr Efx Pgm will be of interest 
    in the exported MIDI file. However, the SELECT track recordings 
    hold and document the intended Program Change selections in Reason.
To Play Efx for a song in Reason (if needed):
 - Mute the SELECT tracks, to avoid duplicate events with the recorded
    Program changes in the Gtr Efx Pgm track.
To Edit Efx for a song:
 - Delete the old Program Change data in Gtr Efx Pgm (since it will be
   recreated).
 - Edit or re-record SELECT Bank and/or Patch values as needed.
 - When done with edits, re-record just the Param Automation for the
    Gtr Efx Pgm.
To Export & Use MIDI File
 - Reason will create a MIDI track for all the SELECT devices and 
   for the Gtr Efx Pgm EMI, all assigned to MIDI Channel 1 (binary 0)
 - In an external MIDI sequencer or utility, delete all of these
    superfluous tracks except Gtr Efx Pgm, and re-assign that track
    to the right channel for the external equipment.

[jimmyklane]

but I suppose EMIs are considered to be mostly 'historical' these days...)

If they ever removed the EMI from Reason I’d have no choice but to abandon my favorite DAW of all time and I’d be really sad about it too. The EMI is Reasons only communication to the outside world unless you use ReWire (which is a kludge IMO)...

[Carly(Poohbear)]

but I suppose EMIs are considered to be mostly 'historical' these days...)

If they ever removed the EMI from Reason I’d have no choice but to abandon my favorite DAW of all time and I’d be really sad about it too. The EMI is Reasons only communication to the outside world unless you use ReWire (which is a kludge IMO)...

They only introduced it in 7 so one hopes it will be around for a long time and yes I would be totally lost without it.

I wish for a builtin loopback solution

[jimmyklane]

I wish for a builtin loopback solution

Agreed!!!