Help me pick a keyboard controller

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stp2015
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14 Apr 2018

Is there a way to attach files to posts in here? I would be happy to share a slight modification of the MPK 249 codec that makes the rotaries relative and implements bi-directional feedback of the buttons below the faders.

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jzquantum
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14 Apr 2018

kuhliloach wrote:
14 Apr 2018
Hmm maybe the issue is that your version of Reason (9.5) doesn't have the new MPK225 mapping that's included in Reason 10.3? The MPK225 does appear under the list of natively supported Akai keyboards. Have you tested the keyboard in Reason 10.3 and not happy with those results? Or, are the results you are not happy with due to not running Reason 10.3 and not having native support?
I'm just not ready to make the jump to reason 10 yet...I have everything I need in 9.5 to make music. The MPK225 shows up on the available controllers in 9.5 when I search, the Akai icon shows up and everything. I took from your post that the mapping for that board is better in 10.

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Psuper
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14 Apr 2018

stp2015 wrote:
14 Apr 2018
Is there a way to attach files to posts in here? I would be happy to share a slight modification of the MPK 249 codec that makes the rotaries relative and implements bi-directional feedback of the buttons below the faders.
STP yes please, just hit the browse and add file below when replying. I'd very much appreciate it even as a starting point for my own experimenting.

I started digging in today and while I think I could figure out many of the things to bring the newer devices (and REs) into the fold, I'm not sure its worth it for me considering I have much already set as I like it with templates. My first choices would be to integrate Parsec and Resonans.

I'm actually surprised I haven't already found someone who created necessary adjustments for the MPK249 and Reason considering how incredible the interaction is for any devices R7 and prior. I'd certainly be willing to collaborate or help in whatever capacity if others here like STP could give some starter pointers on how best to go about making the necessary changes.

@jzq - I'm on R9.5 myself, though I did just get R10 lite I haven't decided how I want to use it. I don't believe there's any additional functionality as far as MPC and Reason integration goes in R10. Still just the native R7 devices and earlier are pre-mapped to most functions of the devices.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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QVprod
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14 Apr 2018

stp2015 wrote:
14 Apr 2018
QVprod wrote:
14 Apr 2018
Looking at the MPK, the only thing missing that I see on some other controllers is dedicated buttons to switch tracks and patches from the controller such as on the Impact LX+.
If that is the main thing that bothers you, then that is easily fixed using Pad Bank D. This is set up in the codec as a set of 16 buttons you can assign to your liking.
Nah, Im a Nektar Panorama owner. Not switching until something better comes out. The above comment was in reference to the the search for a more integrated controller, by which I was saying they're all about the same aside from Nektar.

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QVprod
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14 Apr 2018

Psuper wrote:
14 Apr 2018
QV I just updated my post, missed ya by about 2 minutes. Its extremely well integrated I hadn't realized just how well.

Then the generic banks you can hard-write in the MPK, which I never used until I just started looking tonight - would be way better than messing with reason templates for custom stuff. Looks like I found something fun to do this week!
Ah you were using a template for the assignments. Yeah editing remote files offers quite a bit more if you're willing to dive into it.
stp2015 wrote:
14 Apr 2018
Is there a way to attach files to posts in here? I would be happy to share a slight modification of the MPK 249 codec that makes the rotaries relative and implements bi-directional feedback of the buttons below the faders.
You can upload zip files here. Just try to keep the file size small, which I don't think remote flies are very large anyway.

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EnochLight
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14 Apr 2018

stfual wrote:
13 Apr 2018
The integration on Nektar is fine but the build quality is poor. The soft touch surfaces basically dissolved into sticky glue on mine and then I started getting intermittent USB disconnect problems.

It's gone in the bin and I've gone back to an old novation impulse 25 which doesn't integrate as well but works very reliably.
Sucks about the USB disconnect, but serious question - do you have hydrochloric acid finger tips? :puf_bigsmile: :lol: The soft touch surface buttons on my Panorama P4 are fine, and it's approaching 6 years old. That said, I only clean mine with a water-damp microfiber cloth, and every few months a microfiber cloth dampened with a little Pledge multi-surface to get the gunk off.

I've been eyeing the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S49 or S25, but since Reason doesn't do NKS, it's pretty much useless for me in a Reason environment. The hardware for the Komplete Kontrol line is bad ass, though.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Psuper
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14 Apr 2018

QVprod wrote:
14 Apr 2018
Psuper wrote:
14 Apr 2018
QV I just updated my post, missed ya by about 2 minutes. Its extremely well integrated I hadn't realized just how well.

Then the generic banks you can hard-write in the MPK, which I never used until I just started looking tonight - would be way better than messing with reason templates for custom stuff. Looks like I found something fun to do this week!
Ah you were using a template for the assignments. Yeah editing remote files offers quite a bit more if you're willing to dive into it.
Well I use Parsec, Resonans, Mangle and Pianoteq and since they aren't R7 and earlier devices I never really looked at the integration of default Reason Devices with the controller. So I was pleasantly surprised when I loaded up a Thor and everything I could possibly want mapped in the device was premapped due to the hardware MPK Reason 7 preset. So while the MPK249 doesn't have the screen feedback thing like Nektar, it does have far better mapping than I hoped for compared to any other controllers I've had, just not for devices I use often.

That "random" button on the nektar though... I'd love me something like that.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

stp2015
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14 Apr 2018

Here are two MPK 249 files for you to play around with. Please make copies of the originals before you do anything else!


-On the MPK, open the reason preset, change all knobs to INC/DEC2 mode and then store as a new preset.
-Switches 1-24 now sync with reason bidirectionally
-Knobs 1-24 incremental to avoid parameter jumps
-Knobs 1-24 have acceleration that can be changed and also fully switched off at the very beginning of the lua codec file.
-In the original codec, Switches 7/8 send patch up/down commands. These are now instead on Pads 15/16 of Pad Bank D.

I do not guarantee that this works etc, it is just something that I have been playing around with. If you break reason, the keyboard, your computer, your study or delete songs etc, I am not responsible. Have fun.
Attachments
akai_codec.zip
(11.49 KiB) Downloaded 68 times

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Psuper
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14 Apr 2018

stp2015 wrote:
14 Apr 2018
Here are two MPK 249 files for you to play around with. Please make copies of the originals before you do anything else!


-On the MPK, open the reason preset, change all knobs to INC/DEC2 mode and then store as a new preset.
-Switches 1-24 now sync with reason bidirectionally
-Knobs 1-24 incremental to avoid parameter jumps
-Knobs 1-24 have acceleration that can be changed and also fully switched off at the very beginning of the lua codec file.
-In the original codec, Switches 7/8 send patch up/down commands. These are now instead on Pads 15/16 of Pad Bank D.

I do not guarantee that this works etc, it is just something that I have been playing around with. If you break reason, the keyboard, your computer, your study or delete songs etc, I am not responsible. Have fun.
Thanks man, this will definitely help me kickstart into making some adjustments. Great job on the patch commands too, double tapping button was kinda annoying.

So if I wanted to make some native adjustments for a Reason device that isn't currently natively supported, say one like Parsec, where would I even start? I'm really new with this side of things, so any good web reading or tutorials would be of immense help.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

stp2015
Posts: 323
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14 Apr 2018

This explains the basics. In short: You need to modify the .remotemap file for controller you are using.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... les-reason

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stfual
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15 Jul 2018

EnochLight wrote:
14 Apr 2018

Sucks about the USB disconnect, but serious question - do you have hydrochloric acid finger tips? :puf_bigsmile: :lol: The soft touch surface buttons on my Panorama P4 are fine, and it's approaching 6 years old. That said, I only clean mine with a water-damp microfiber cloth, and every few months a microfiber cloth dampened with a little Pledge multi-surface to get the gunk off.
It's a common problem with some soft touch plastics in hot humid environments. They basically dissolve into a sticky touch plastic. Seen it on head phone ear pads, phone cases, cameras, car dashboards, hand bags, keyboards. It must be a particular formula because they don't all do it and it may have something to with air pollution and sweat as well. Talc is a short term solution but obviously not good for things like keyboards and cameras.

groggy1
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Joined: 10 Jun 2015

15 Jul 2018

I use a Fatar keyboard from 1988. It's a GREAT keyboard, and comes with a mod-wheel! (they didn't do knobs back then)

I highly recommend Fatar - but I have no idea if they're still in business.
:)

jlgrimes
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15 Jul 2018

stp2015 wrote:
13 Apr 2018
jzquantum wrote:
13 Apr 2018
There must be a controller on the same level as the Akai hardware and without the software headaches.
There should be, but there isn't. Maybe Props and Akai are working on something. Akai also make Ableton's Push.
Actually Push2 is an Ableton designed controller.

They separated from Akai on v2.

I had an mpk 261. It was a decent controller on feel and features (and it has native Reason support)

It's customization was lacking though.

I thought Advance would be better but it is not.

It is great for VSTis though but it lacks native remote support in Reason.

I think the Nektar panorama is the most high end Reason controller.


It is a little disturbing seeing how little Remote support has been updated by Props in the past few years as many new controllers lack Reason native support. Also seeing on their website an Akai Advance controller, a controller with no Reason native support.

They have a document on their website that shows the controller s they support. And most controllers are a few years or more old.

I feel more assured now though they are teaming up with Akai. Hopefully they will get better native support on these controllers in the future.

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demt
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15 Jul 2018

I've got the akai mpk mk2 and wish it had old style midi out in and through
Reason 12 ,gear4 music sdp3 stage piano .nektar gxp 88,behringer umc1800 .line6 spider4 30
hear scince reason 2.5

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jzquantum
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31 May 2019

This is an old thread, but I thought I would give an update on what I eventually decided. I got the Nektar Panorama P1. It works nicely with Reason and gives me more control than I could imagine. Recommended.

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EnochLight
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31 May 2019

jzquantum wrote:
31 May 2019
This is an old thread, but I thought I would give an update on what I eventually decided. I got the Nektar Panorama P1. It works nicely with Reason and gives me more control than I could imagine. Recommended.
LOL!! Yeah, a year later is quite the update. :lol: But thanks for letting us know - I think you made a great choice. Nektar Tech's support is truly legendary. I just had a heart-to-heart with Justin (who has been with them since the beginning), and he's a standup guy.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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jzquantum
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31 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
31 May 2019
jzquantum wrote:
31 May 2019
This is an old thread, but I thought I would give an update on what I eventually decided. I got the Nektar Panorama P1. It works nicely with Reason and gives me more control than I could imagine. Recommended.
LOL!! Yeah, a year later is quite the update. :lol: But thanks for letting us know - I think you made a great choice. Nektar Tech's support is truly legendary. I just had a heart-to-heart with Justin (who has been with them since the beginning), and he's a standup guy.
:lol:

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Oquasec
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01 Jun 2019

Tbh I would probably get a Nektar next.
61 or 88 keys, maybe even 49 minimum.
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2chris
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02 Jun 2019

I have owned the Akai mpk 2 series. I liked how it felt durable, the drum pads were awesome, the faders were great, and every daw recognized it right away. What I sold it for is that it’s kind of bulky, the keys made noise, and the action was not amazing imo.

I bought the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrok mk2. The action is amazing. The screen is full color and pretty. It’s usb powered. It integrates with NKS great if you like NI products and the lights look cool, while coming with great software. The downside? The great features don’t work in Reason so hot, but it works great in Ableton Live. I miss not having drum pads on the board.

I suggest nektar if you want a solid priced option that’s works great in Reason, but Arturia is awesome to consider too because of build quality and software. I don’t know if it has detected profile or not. They have a metal chassis mk2 model that comes with drum pads, and great software\features, with awesome key action that’s the same as their flagship synth.

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HeavyViper
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02 Jun 2019

Interesting to read about the Nektar build quality concerns. I had been looking to upgrade to one for a while for the Reason integration, but that's enough to give me second thoughts. Keyboards definitely seem like one of those things you need to try before you buy. :P

I was using a Roland A-500PRO up until about a month ago, then realized that I was only using the pitch/mod stick and the keys out of everything on it. They're lovely controllers - I just wasn't using all of it. To save space, I ended up grabbing a Korg microkey 37 from a pawn shop for cheap. Bit of a downgrade, but given what I use it for and the space I'm in now, it was the right choice.
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dezma
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03 Jun 2019

HeavyViper wrote:
02 Jun 2019
Interesting to read about the Nektar build quality concerns. I had been looking to upgrade to one for a while for the Reason integration, but that's enough to give me second thoughts. Keyboards definitely seem like one of those things you need to try before you buy. :P

I was using a Roland A-500PRO up until about a month ago, then realized that I was only using the pitch/mod stick and the keys out of everything on it. They're lovely controllers - I just wasn't using all of it. To save space, I ended up grabbing a Korg microkey 37 from a pawn shop for cheap. Bit of a downgrade, but given what I use it for and the space I'm in now, it was the right choice.
I agree on the build quality.. The USB cable gets loose all the time on mine, knobs feel a bit cheap, keyboard is okay though. Too bad there's no real alternative as far as deep reason integration goes (afaik).

jlgrimes
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03 Jun 2019

stp2015 wrote:
13 Apr 2018
Akai Hardware is fantastic, especially in the 225 249 and 261. Unfortunately, the remote integration is not. I am writing a codec now for my MPK249 in order to address the obvious shortcomings. In principle you can get the the pads to sync with Kong, you can make the rotaries truly endless (i.e. avoid parameter jumps), and you can make the LEDs in the buttons below the knobs / faders sync with the software.

I don't understand why AKAI and Props are working together, but then they put out such a bad remote integration.

In any case, you can do the same for your 225, or you could get the Nectar Impact LX25+. This has much better Reason integration, but the hardware is weak in comparison. And I really mean that. Once you turn the Akai knobs and play the Akai keys, the Nektar feels like a very very cheap toy.
My experience too. Akai build quality is near excellent. Their software support though seems to be below average or average at best.

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EnochLight
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03 Jun 2019

Well, with the release of Nektarine and the Studio One support update, my Nektar Panorama P4 just became infinitely more valuable. I've also come to discover that Nektar offers a replacement keybed for the early (first gen) Panorama P-Series that updates the feel to be more in alignment with the later released Panorama stuff. Not sure what it costs, but at least they offer it - which is far more than most would offer for something this old (approaching 7 years).

Hats off to Nektar Tech for supporting their wares far longer than most.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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