Help me pick a keyboard controller

[jzquantum]

Hi all,

I have the Akai MPK225 controller and I am finding it does not integrate very well with Reason. I am running Reason 9.5 on windows 10.

I've read about all of the fixes for this, including that it is fixed in reason 10, but I am not happy with the results and I am happy running reason 9.5 for now.

I need a 25 key controller for my desktop. I like having the features of the MPK225, like transport controls, drum pads, etc., etc. I want something that just works without having to get patches and workarounds.

Which controller integrates SEAMLESSLY with reason that is fairly high end? I can spend upwards of $500.

And I am selling the MPK225 if you are interested, otherwise to the internet it goes. Only used at home...looks like new...all original with original packaging. Only a year old.

Thanks!

[fieldframe]

If you want 25 keys and close Reason integration, your best bet is probably the Nektar Impact LX+ 25. It's not a particularly high-end option, but Nektar's Remote maps are second to none and it's an excellent value at $99.

[jzquantum]

If you want 25 keys and close Reason integration, your best bet is probably the Nektar Impact LX+ 25. It's not a particularly high-end option, but Nektar's Remote maps are second to none and it's an excellent value at $99.

Great. Let me look into that one.

[stp2015]

Akai Hardware is fantastic, especially in the 225 249 and 261. Unfortunately, the remote integration is not. I am writing a codec now for my MPK249 in order to address the obvious shortcomings. In principle you can get the the pads to sync with Kong, you can make the rotaries truly endless (i.e. avoid parameter jumps), and you can make the LEDs in the buttons below the knobs / faders sync with the software.

I don't understand why AKAI and Props are working together, but then they put out such a bad remote integration.

In any case, you can do the same for your 225, or you could get the Nectar Impact LX25+. This has much better Reason integration, but the hardware is weak in comparison. And I really mean that. Once you turn the Akai knobs and play the Akai keys, the Nektar feels like a very very cheap toy.

[jzquantum]

Once you turn the Akai knobs and play the Akai keys, the Nektar feels like a very very cheap toy.

Really good to know. I agree, I think the Akai hardware is very good. Good action on the keys and pads and I like the features.

There must be a controller on the same level as the Akai hardware and without the software headaches.

[stp2015]

There must be a controller on the same level as the Akai hardware and without the software headaches.

There should be, but there isn't. Maybe Props and Akai are working on something. Akai also make Ableton's Push.

[mreese80]

I have the novation impulse 49 and i just bought the nektar impact lx25. I love the impulse but i wanted something smaller. I love them both. Especially my nektar impact. They work fine with reason. Already mapped

[kuhliloach]

Isn't it ironic we're here reading this thread together in light of the new partnership with Akai? Somehow Propellerhead Software has the time to code new synths, release crippled versions of their program, yet the writing of a few remote files is somehow not happening? I just don't get it.

That said I can suggest the Akai MPK mini (MK2) due to Reason having native support for it.

[stp2015]

Isn't it ironic we're here reading this thread together in light of the new partnership with Akai? Somehow Propellerhead Software has the time to code new synths, release crippled versions of their program, yet the writing of a few remote files is somehow not happening? I just don't get it.

That said I can suggest the Akai MPK mini (MK2) due to Reason having native support for it.

I live close to their offices. When my MPK codec is finished, I will knock on their door, ok?

[sublunar]

I have an MKP49 and I like it. I bought it thinking I'd make all those knobs linked to software parameters...

...but then I realized software has a lot more knobs. How do you people decide which knobs/faders to link to which software bits?

I tried getting it to work with my Nord Rack 2x but it's such a pain in the ass and you'd have to use labels to keep track of everything. At this point all I want is a keyboard with nothing else. Just the keys. Unless someone out there has a good workflow for knob mapping that I just don't see yet.

[QVprod]

Once you turn the Akai knobs and play the Akai keys, the Nektar feels like a very very cheap toy.

Really good to know. I agree, I think the Akai hardware is very good. Good action on the keys and pads and I like the features.

There must be a controller on the same level as the Akai hardware and without the software headaches.

Oddly enough, as a keyboard player I think Akai keys are terrible. At least on the original MPK. They're ridiculously stiff which doesn't equate to quality but bad design. Pads are a different story. Though I'd love an update I actually love my Nektar Panorama, some don't like the keys but Ive touched few controllers with better keys and plenty with worse. Sadly no other controller has the same level of Reason integration as the Panoramas, though with this new partnership with Akai, who knows? Maybe something will change.

[stp2015]

Oddly enough, as a keyboard player I think Akai keys are terrible. At least on the original MPK. They're ridiculously stiff which doesn't equate to quality but bad design. Pads are a different story.

Both keys and pads are much much better on the second generation MPK keyboards. Really recommend you try them.

[QVprod]

Oddly enough, as a keyboard player I think Akai keys are terrible. At least on the original MPK. They're ridiculously stiff which doesn't equate to quality but bad design. Pads are a different story.

Both keys and pads are much much better on the second generation MPK keyboards. Really recommend you try them.

If I happen to come across one I’ll give it a feel.

[Psuper]

Akai Hardware is fantastic, especially in the 225 249 and 261. Unfortunately, the remote integration is not. I am writing a codec now for my MPK249 in order to address the obvious shortcomings. In principle you can get the the pads to sync with Kong, you can make the rotaries truly endless (i.e. avoid parameter jumps), and you can make the LEDs in the buttons below the knobs / faders sync with the software.

I don't understand why AKAI and Props are working together, but then they put out such a bad remote integration.

Since Propellerhead and Akai just officially started, I'm hopeful they'll release proper remote files. However my bet is on a simple marketing ploy, and we'll not see any development at all in that area (checkmark another "hope I'm wrong" here).

Akai has some R7 built in basics, but barebones. I already have many items mapped the way I like, however I'd much prefer native over personal template based overall.

I love the MPK249, solid as a tank and everything is quality about it, knobs, faders, everything. Keys are typical synth feel (and WAY better than most by the way). I use a KX-8 for piano play.

[fieldframe]

There must be a controller on the same level as the Akai hardware and without the software headaches.

There should be, but there isn't. Maybe Props and Akai are working on something. Akai also make Ableton's Push.

Akai did make Push 1, but Push 2 was all Ableton (presumably with a whitelabel ODM).

One difference is that there’s no Akai logo on the Push 2: Ableton have brought all their engineering in–house in the development of the new version.

So maybe that frees Akai up to make a Reason controller, though I very much doubt it.

[jzquantum]

What do people think about the M Audio Axiom? Integrates well with reason?

[stfual]

The integration on Nektar is fine but the build quality is poor. The soft touch surfaces basically dissolved into sticky glue on mine and then I started getting intermittent USB disconnect problems.

It's gone in the bin and I've gone back to an old novation impulse 25 which doesn't integrate as well but works very reliably.

[Psuper]

What do people think about the M Audio Axiom? Integrates well with reason?

I dislike M Audio controllers, their keys are really bad, especially their weighted -- and that pretty much stops me from looking any further at them.

[QVprod]

What do people think about the M Audio Axiom? Integrates well with reason?

I dislike M Audio controllers, their keys are really bad, especially their weighted -- and that pretty much stops me from looking any further at them.

Agreed here. Though supposedly their newest weighted board is pretty decent. The 2nd gen Axioms had ok Reason control but they're discontinued. There's a list of supported controllers here https://www.propellerheads.se/support/u ... on/remote/ . Understand though that any controller besides the Nektar stuff is gonna have pretty basic control of Reason though apparently better than the Akai control.

[Psuper]

What do people think about the M Audio Axiom? Integrates well with reason?

I dislike M Audio controllers, their keys are really bad, especially their weighted -- and that pretty much stops me from looking any further at them.

Agreed here. Though supposedly their newest weighted board is pretty decent. The 2nd gen Axioms had ok Reason control but they're discontinued. There's a list of supported controllers here https://www.propellerheads.se/support/u ... on/remote/ . Understand though that any controller besides the Nektar stuff is gonna have pretty basic control of Reason though apparently better than the Akai control.

I haven't looked at or tried out any newer controllers for a few years so ya definitely hit up a guitar center or somewhere and try them out see if you like them. I should clarify the Akai with the default R7 maps quite a few items, all the kong drums on the pads (faders adjust the levels, knobs the pitch), faders/knobs on many devices, transport controls, patch browser, etc, just not on everything, and you'll likely want to redefine some of them to your liking.

Edit: So I just decided to go through some devices I rarely use the controller for (since I already knew many were mapped) and the integration is far better than I realized, actually quite terrific. Every device that was in Reason 7 and prior is mapped in a logical way. For instance Redrum faders map level and knob is on pan, then hit control bank b and fader maps pitch, knob maps length etc.

Thor, Subtractor, Neptune, you name it everything that was in R7 or prior is already mapped via the internal MPK preset in a logical way. Click on the sequencer device and away you go.

So there it is, as good as you can get for any devices that were in R7 and prior at least on the MPK249.

Also, there's 24 hardwired presets which offer the same native mapped functionality for the different apps similar to how its integrated with Reason:
https://www.noterepeat.com/products/aka ... t-overview

[QVprod]

Agreed here. Though supposedly their newest weighted board is pretty decent. The 2nd gen Axioms had ok Reason control but they're discontinued. There's a list of supported controllers here https://www.propellerheads.se/support/u ... on/remote/ . Understand though that any controller besides the Nektar stuff is gonna have pretty basic control of Reason though apparently better than the Akai control.

I haven't looked at or tried out any newer controllers for a few years so ya definitely hit up a guitar center or somewhere and try them out see if you like them. I should clarify the Akai with the default R7 maps quite a few items, all the kong drums on the pads, faders/knobs on devices, transport controls, patch browser, etc, just not on everything, and you'll likely want to redefine some of them to your liking.

Then that sounds about the same level of integration as any other controller aside from Nektar's. In this case then buying a different controller is pretty much pointless unless it's a P1 to add to the MPK. Looking at the MPK, the only thing missing that I see on some other controllers is dedicated buttons to switch tracks and patches from the controller such as on the Impact LX+.

[Psuper]

QV I just updated my post, missed ya by about 2 minutes. Its extremely well integrated I hadn't realized just how well.

Then the generic banks you can hard-write in the MPK, which I never used until I just started looking tonight - would be way better than messing with reason templates for custom stuff. Looks like I found something fun to do this week!

[stp2015]

So I think I have to clarify my view as well: It is not that the implementation on the AKAI is so much behind the typical Reason supported controller (M-Audio etc). However, it falls well behind what the hardware is capable of doing.

Examples:

-The drum pads can in principle output visual feedback from Reason devices (ReDrum Sequencer, Kong Pad Hits, Mixer Solos etc) but the code is not bidirectional in this way.
-The exact same thing is true for the buttons below the Faders on the MPK 249 / 261. I have them mapped to the mixer solos, and it is very helpful to have them light up and reflect the state of the SSL on screen.
-The knobs are not truly endless and produce parameter jumps. If you set them to inc/dec 2 on the MPK and change the codec just a bit, this can be rectified. You can even adjust the acceleration behaviour of the knobs to your liking very easily.

So, the AKAI implementation is not horrible compared to other controllers (except for the Nektar series controllers, who really stand out), but it could be improved a lot with little effort. This annoys me.

I feel a bit bad about making AKAI controllers look so bad in my previous posts, but the improvements you can get easily if you update the codec in a few ways are too important to be ignored.

[stp2015]

Looking at the MPK, the only thing missing that I see on some other controllers is dedicated buttons to switch tracks and patches from the controller such as on the Impact LX+.

If that is the main thing that bothers you, then that is easily fixed using Pad Bank D. This is set up in the codec as a set of 16 buttons you can assign to your liking.

[kuhliloach]

Hmm maybe the issue is that your version of Reason (9.5) doesn't have the new MPK225 mapping that's included in Reason 10.3? The MPK225 does appear under the list of natively supported Akai keyboards. Have you tested the keyboard in Reason 10.3 and not happy with those results? Or, are the results you are not happy with due to not running Reason 10.3 and not having native support?