The problem with Reason Remote

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

21 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
27 Mar 2018
I came to think of this again in another thread and I mentioned this a few times but I'd like to get a few opinions on this matter. It's about the situation with Reason Remote, i.e. the way MIDI control surfaces are integrated into Reason.

IMO the Props coded themselves into a corner with Remote support and now REs. Its not clear who should update the scripts / mappings. Because all plugin mappings are contained in the script for the control surface who's supposed to update them for each new RE? The Props because they put them out? The hardware manufacturer for each RE that comes out? The plugin manufacturer for each control surface that exists?

As said, the issue is that the mapping is in the script for the controller. There is no general mechanism for control surfaces to map controller knobs to "parameter 1 of plugin", "parameter 2 of plugin" etc. and RE's don't have to care about any mapping either. So it can't currently be solved like in other DAWs where usually the general functionality of the control surface is handled by the DAW but the single parameters are "filled in" from what the currently selected plugin supplies.

So yeah, on one hand, the way I use control surfaces with Reason is mostly combining a few synths and effects and then mapping single parameters to the connected control surfaces by hand, creating a massive "modular synth" so all of the default mappings don't really apply except for the one BCF 8-Fader main mixer control...

On the other hand this (and the poor integration of the Mackie Control surface with only one XT supported) has kept me from trying to set up my mixing place with Reason at least as an alternative to my usual mix-job go-to Logic. I do like to mix hands-on instead of using a mouse but with Reason it's all kinds of backwards doing that, starting with the fact that theres no "fixed" place for plugins (rack) and ending with this funny Reason Remote situation.

Another option would of course be a very powerful editor for the actually very powerful underlying script and mapping system... :o :geek:

So if anyone wants to ramble about this stuff as well.... ;)
The only automation I’ve ever found conducive to use in Reason is from a synths direct user interface to a sequencer automation track, OR, from EMIs out to MIDI destinations using 10-15 on the same device/channel for different controllers. I get around the linear-only automation by using a graphics tablet to draw fine curves, but that is a kludge...
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

jlgrimes
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

22 Jun 2018

djsmex wrote:
21 Jun 2018
Hi, I'm the guy behind www.reasonremoter.uk and I don't have any direct association or afiliation with PH but do have some ideas to assist with remote mapping. I currently maintain a complete list of remote info files for all Reason REs and devices but don't maintain any third party VST remote info files.
I did contact PH before setting up the site and although they were happy for me to do so independently they didn't wish to have any direct links with the site or any responsibility over the site. This may be a resources concern within PH as there are so many controllers on the market and so widely varied user requirements.
To answer some questions, I believe the BCR and BCF were part of the original remote system, before LUA codecs and as such are hard coded into the software. That said, it does not stop people writing new LUA codecs for these devices. However, I also believe these controllers are discontinued so I wouldn't think PH or Behringer will be writing any new codecs.
Anyone can register for free with PH as a developer for Remote codecs, you will need to know a little about LUA scripting and have a good grasp on MIDI as well as details of the MIDI I/O of any control surface you wish to write a codec for.
Go to: https://www.propellerheads.se/developer
The reason for having separation between codecs and remote maps, is the codec acts as the MIDI interface between your hardware and the Reason software, while the remote map is how you configure the controls defined in the codec to work with devices in Reason. This gives the freedom for users to configure remote maps without knowing the LUA codec or MIDI I/O.
I totally accept not everyone is ready to learn LUA scripting and may not understand how the tabbed delimitated remote map files work. This is why I started the reasonremoter site.
As for who should write LUA codecs for specific control surfaces, I think PH wanted both hardware manufacturers, RE developers and Reason users to have the freedom to do so without the limitations of a single intergrated solution. As LUA codecs can be not only hardware specific but can also have functionality for specific REs like the codecs for the Grid64g & Grid64n by Retouch.
I don't know why MIDI controller manufacturers are not doing more with Reason and I don't understand why some manufacturers keep their MIDI I/O data private. Akai apc mini, for example, doesn't publish the MIDI data for the pad LEDs, I found this out from a third party.
My idea is to use my site to bring Reason users and codec developers together, a place to find custom codecs, remote maps and related resources.
I also have plans to attempt to develop a web based collection of tools that can help people create their own LUA codecs, remote maps and perhaps remote map documentation as a reference of remote mappings.
I have the idea of using the WebMIDI JS API, to create a simple MIDI learn function together with a simple web UI that can create basic LUA Codecs. It gets a lot more involved when looking at adding MIDI feedback to controllers as this is very manufacture specific and there's no easy way of ensuring it will play nice with any controller.
A similar web UI tool can be used to create remote maps. It will need data for specific codecs built-in so the user need only select their controller (if available) and then select a remote item for each available control surface item. Its would be made more complex when adding the option for remote map groups and even more tricky if it uses a graphic UI of the control surface and Reason device, RE or VST.
The idea for a document tool, is a web UI that can scan a remote map and generate a PDF document that shows what control surface item does what on what device when in focus. This may be tricky for controllers that have multiple functions on single controls like the FaderFox LV2/LC2. It may also be tricky to show graphically when remote items don't match up to on screen controls or when a device has multiple display modes.
The last idea I had was a web based tool a little like the Novation automap, but instead of being manufacturer specific, have it use MIDI learn type features so people can build up their own control map with one or more controllers and have work with a single codec and remote map. This could act as a control display as well as a easier way to configure remote mappings through a simple web app. It may not be for everyone and like Novation's Automap will require the remote map updated with each new device.
I do think there is some limitations with how MIDI focus is given to devices in the rack and the tracks in the sequencer. As I understand it, you can only give MIDI focus to a device in the rack either by it's associated track in the sequencer or by clicking with a mouse in the rack to place the MIDI focus icon in the left edge of the rack. While you can switch sequencer tracks via a controller, I don't believe you have the same feature of switching MIDI focus between devices in the rack via a controller. You also don't have any MIDI remote access to the browser panel.
You do have the controller lock feature in reason, so you can have a specific controller codec locked to a single device which allows for things like having the keyboard control a synth while the knob/faders on the same controller control a player or effect device.
There are also options like the Hamu rack extensions or the EMI device with midiloop that can add flexibility to remote mappings.
If anyone would like to contribute their codecs, remote maps or wish to share usefull resources on reasonremoter, please get in touch.
It's a relatively new site and I am hoping to make some site improvements, I do this work in my spare time but do my best to keep the information current.
The site is free to use and join, and if anyone is able to help with any of my above ideas, please get in touch.
best, John - djsmex
Thanks.

I registered on your site and downloaded the Akai Advance Codec.

That is just what I needed.


I thank all that was involved in getting this to work.

electrofux
Posts: 863
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

23 Jun 2018

I love Remote, it gives so many possibilities. Even though i am constantly batch about some deficiencies like remote browsing, rack navigation, pattern based REs support.

However the access to Remote is too complicated to yield a user driven updated map base. I understand their intention. You have a codec for a certain controller and then you only need to edit the map file to add new REs. That part is actually not that hard given the new Remote Info function which displays all remote items. But the normal user doesnt even know that there is a map file and where it is remains a mystery for many too.

The whole preference dialogue needs to give you acces to the map file at least in an easy to edit format. I mean if you edit these in the text editor the chances are VERY high you make a mistake with the tabs needed and it wont work anymore.

Of course for bigger setups and specific functions there is no way around getting into lua and the codec file but for updating your existing codec with new mappings things shouldnt depend on acces to the SDK and be made much more simpler and integrated into Reason.

User avatar
theshoemaker
Posts: 595
Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Germany
Contact:

23 Jun 2018

I'm in for some open collaboration.

Here is a sneak peak of a prototype for my RePlay codec companion app for iOS and Android. In addition to the remote infos, we would need screenshots of all the devices.



I could create some companion app for reasonremoter.uk in a similar fashion.

Brainstorming and open discussion welcome.
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V12 on MacOS Ventura

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

23 Jun 2018

Reason remote is why I have little monosynths sitting around everywhere....basically I set up 1:1 relationships.

My BSII handles most of Thor/Europa admirably.
My Moog handles the 4 knobs of the combinator
And I’ll press other synths into service when need be. Mostly I automate the synths themselves instead of making the knobs on the synth automate Reason devices....but I do use it.

I much prefer to use Reason devices to modulate MIDI parameters and go out to the real world, and conversely to have Reason playing a sequence and twiddle the knobs on a synth to automate it directly.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

User avatar
Data_Shrine
Posts: 517
Joined: 23 Jan 2015

24 Jun 2018

The problem is.. it take way too much time to set up. And PH dropped the ball by not setting up Europa, Grain, Klang & cie themselves. But otherwise, it's great to be able to map pretty much everything and having the possibility of using any synth with a "hands-on", hardware like approach that encourages happy accidents and creativity.

But yeah. that "music-making" time you've got is gonna be severely cut down by the time it takes to test & set-up a remote file (now imagine all theses RE waiting for it..)

djsmex
Posts: 248
Joined: 23 Aug 2016

21 Oct 2018

theshoemaker wrote:
23 Jun 2018
I'm in for some open collaboration.
I have front/back screenshots of most available REs and am also working on producing text lists of audio/cv I/O ports for all REs. I don't sign-in here very often so if you'd like to work with us on an open project, please get in touch by email john @ developer . plus . com or on my site www.reasonremoter.uk/contact/ for a talk over what can be done. I'm not a IOS or Android dev so your skills in this area may be very helpful to the reason community.

best, john

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 26 guests