Envelope VS Automation (Now with CV, MIDI ...and drama)

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O1B
Posts: 2037
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

19 Mar 2018

CV Section? NO. Automation Section... so, an automation section?..... NO!

Truth: A CV section was never considered for the Reason Talk forum. That ball was dropped.
And, now, maybe some are a little embarrassed about have to double back.

Straight Talk.

No matter.
It may be a moderator thing. Maybe not many of them are expressly into CV, Eurorack.
....Mostly Volcas, REs, the Novation Circuit..... and things.

An Automation Section over CV? Really?

"Linda, honey!"


selig wrote:
19 Mar 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:------------------
NOTE this thread would have been great in a CV\IO section.....
Was just thinking would’ve been perfect for an Automation section…
;)


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EdGrip
Posts: 2343
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

19 Mar 2018

the fuck?

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

19 Mar 2018

O1B wrote:CV Section? NO. Automation Section... so, an automation section?..... NO!

Truth: A CV section was never considered for the Reason Talk forum. That ball was dropped.
And, now, maybe some are a little embarrassed about have to double back.

Straight Talk.

No matter.
It may be a moderator thing. Maybe not many of them are expressly into CV, Eurorack.
....Mostly Volcas, REs, the Novation Circuit..... and things.

An Automation Section over CV? Really?
selig wrote:
19 Mar 2018


Was just thinking would’ve been perfect for an Automation section…
[emoji6]


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Yes, that’s the point: a CV section was never considered because of inactivity on that subject.

Really, no one get’s the joke about the automation forum? This very thread has AUTOMATION in it’s title, but not CV. There’s as much, if not more talk about automation and knobs as CV.

In Reason, all of these topics are so intertwined that we really can’t talk about just one aspect of Reason (CV) in most cases, hence the reason why there are so few posts over time that would be specifically about CV.

One could argue there are as many threads that are about automation as CV - maybe more, since I’d reckon folks use automation more often than CV (at least according to what I’ve read). And yet, no one asks for an automation forum! [emoji6]

So if everyone that want’s a CV forum makes a few CV specific threads a week (and you actually get discussion in these threads), the mods would have no choice but to create a sub-forum for CV. Prove the mods wrong!!!
[emoji6]

Final tip: put the letters “CV” in the thread title and it would be easier for folks to find threads that include discussion about CV (hint hint).


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Selig Audio, LLC

antic604

19 Mar 2018

What's being discussed here flies over my head (although I THINK I know).

However, I'd be happy if they made automation consistent with the units of the actual thing I automate - how is it possible that after 15+ years of Reason on the market I still need to guess where 0dB on the SSL fader or 10kHz on the filter are when drawing my automation!? WTF? This is simply crazy...

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

19 Mar 2018

Carly, where could you change the range? Dunno if Reason has an option to increase the 127 limit to the 32 bit maximum value... Though for an encoder, the 127 range makes more sense. The super fine details would be more useful for a potmeter, or maybe touch. Cause encoders rotate endlessly. BUT! One more option would be building a midi controller that works as follows: increasing and decreasing buttons for each digit. So, one pair adds +/- 0.00001 with each push, the next +/- 0.00010, etc. Or similar with a button-encoder, only with each button press, it would jump one digit, and then it could be increased/decreased with the encoder.
Think of the VMG-01 RE. Though after a digit would reach above the number 9, it would increase the digit above with 1, i.e. adding.

EdGrip, it depends on how the MIDI controller was coded. If you look up building a MIDI controller with an Arduino kit, you'll see, that details can either be coded, or set up in the host DAW if everything is true.

How about merging CV and Automation? Whatever knob you'd automate, Reason would reach under the hood with smooth 32 bit values. And the possibility of the sequencer generating CV signal, so we can draw it ourselves!

Selig, at the end of the day, Automation, CV, Envelopes, whatever, it's just about values. xD ...and computers are just 0s and 1s. Okay, they are different, but what they have in common is that they are going to change some other value.

antic604, I think it's what you think it's about... All in all, accuracy, access to fine details.
In the far past, 2010, I asked for setting up display values that we like: example, audio level on any device: 0-127, 0-100 % or dB

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

19 Mar 2018

Updated the title. xD

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selig
RE Developer
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19 Mar 2018

RobC wrote:
19 Mar 2018
Selig, at the end of the day, Automation, CV, Envelopes, whatever, it's just about values. xD ...and computers are just 0s and 1s. Okay, they are different, but what they have in common is that they are going to change some other value.
Indeed - don't forget knobs, sliders, switches, buttons, keyboards, pads, etc. - they are all just things that change values!

That, and the "1s and 0s" thing simultaneously makes understanding computers both super simple and infinitely complex.
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

19 Mar 2018

I'd prefer forgetting about sliders xD - #1 dust & fabric collectors. Most suicidal controller part.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Location: UK

19 Mar 2018

RobC wrote:
19 Mar 2018
Carly, where could you change the range? Dunno if Reason has an option to increase the 127 limit to the 32 bit maximum value... Though for an encoder, the 127 range makes more sense. The super fine details would be more useful for a potmeter, or maybe touch. Cause encoders rotate endlessly. BUT! One more option would be building a midi controller that works as follows: increasing and decreasing buttons for each digit. So, one pair adds +/- 0.00001 with each push, the next +/- 0.00010, etc. Or similar with a button-encoder, only with each button press, it would jump one digit, and then it could be increased/decreased with the encoder.
Think of the VMG-01 RE. Though after a digit would reach above the number 9, it would increase the digit above with 1, i.e. adding.
You can play with the values in a midicodec file...

example you can change the min and max values of the midicodec file, setting the max to 99999 you can get the scale down to 0.00001

Code: Select all

Universal MIDI Codec Control Surface Definition File				
File Format Version	1.0.0			
Control Surface Manufacturer	<Other>
Control Surface Model	MIDI Control Surface	
Codec Version	1.0.4

Item Header	Name	Type	Min	Max
Item	CC 00	value	0	99999
Item	CC 01	value	0	127
Item	CC 02	value	0	127
Item	CC 03	value	0	127
Item	CC 04	value	0	127
Item	CC 05	value	0	127
Item	CC 06	value	0	127
Item	CC 07	value	0	127
Item	CC 08	value	0	127
Item	CC 09	value	0	127
Item	CC 10	value	0	127

RobC
Posts: 1833
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20 Mar 2018

Holy... that would be very useful! Where did you find that?

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Carly(Poohbear)
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20 Mar 2018

RobC wrote:
20 Mar 2018
Holy... that would be very useful! Where did you find that?
per your other thread another
Windows: C:\ProgramData\Propellerhead Software\Remote\
OSX: //Library/Application Support/Propellerhead Software/Remote/

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

20 Mar 2018

Thank you very much! Seems these text files are easy to code. Yet I read that we need to speak one of the specific programming languages...

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

21 Mar 2018

...and thank you so much again for this. Dunno if there's an easier solution to editing, but for now, by copying other files, and some basic editing, I could create a new category and specify a model in Reason. This will come very handy when I'll build my own controller. And I can set up mappings to my own tastes for my devices. So awesome!

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Carly(Poohbear)
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21 Mar 2018

RobC wrote:
21 Mar 2018
...and thank you so much again for this. Dunno if there's an easier solution to editing, but for now, by copying other files, and some basic editing, I could create a new category and specify a model in Reason. This will come very handy when I'll build my own controller. And I can set up mappings to my own tastes for my devices. So awesome!
Use a real editor one that does not strip out white spaces etc.

I use Notepad ++ it's a free one https://notepad-plus-plus.org/

I did you VBSedit which I really like however one of my(our) mappings files is now over 1/2 million rows and it does not handle copy and paste that well with that many rows...

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

21 Mar 2018

Yipe, how did it create that many? Or is it a huge controller? Personally, I buy everything that is portable and odd looking. Adds to my good mood when working with audio.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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21 Mar 2018

RobC wrote:
21 Mar 2018
Yipe, how did it create that many? Or is it a huge controller? Personally, I buy everything that is portable and odd looking. Adds to my good mood when working with audio.
I help manage the Nektar mappings... The Nektar P series are the deepest integrated controller for Reason.

We have over 700 full mappings (mainly RE's and some VST's) and over 2200 grab maps (mainly VST's)

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

21 Mar 2018

Oh, now that makes sense. Seems a bit pricey, though - maybe one day, hehe.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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21 Mar 2018

RobC wrote:
21 Mar 2018
Oh, now that makes sense. Seems a bit pricey, though - maybe one day, hehe.
There is the P1 which is just the controls without the keyboard. I have seen them go for about £80 (usually) higher on Ebay.

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