How do reason people feel about using the modules reason 5 has?

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Oquasec
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20 Mar 2018

I noticed reason is heavily affected by what sample rate you pick.
Not just for time stretching either. might be placebo.
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eXode
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20 Mar 2018

Oquasec wrote:
20 Mar 2018
I noticed reason is heavily affected by what sample rate you pick.
Not just for time stretching either. might be placebo.
It's not placebo, the synths in Reason are sample rate dependent as far as I can tell. A higher sample rate will give you a cleaner sound/more headroom before aliasing occurs. It's most noticeable with Subtractor and to some extend FM in Thor.

avasopht
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20 Mar 2018

eXode wrote:
20 Mar 2018
In synthesis no, but in digital audio world there is aliasing.

I think the point he is trying to make is that the synths in Reason alias, more or less, while some other VST synths offer different means to enable/disable anti aliasing. Different anti aliasing measures consume CPU cycles so the option is usually there for the user to choose between fidelity or performance.
Sure, I know about aliasing. It's just not a "draft mode." That implies it's a tarnished method, though I get his sentiments.

And I do agree with the freedom to choose levels of oversampling. I'd also prefer behaviour like Waves where its samplerate is not entirely determined by the project setting.

There were some tests done on the PUF showing how the stock devices aliased on basic waveforms if you recall - Thor's wavetable was pretty clean.

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Oquasec
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20 Mar 2018

Wow. so let's say I make whatever bump using subtractor at 48khz (Midi tracks not bounced beforehand) then at the end where it gives you the popup with the bit-depth/sample rate toggle...
Would this make sense to do?
Capture.PNG
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avasopht
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20 Mar 2018

Oquasec wrote:
20 Mar 2018
Wow. so let's say I make whatever bump using subtractor at 48khz (Midi tracks not bounced beforehand) then at the end where it gives you the popup with the bit-depth/sample rate toggle...
Would this make sense to do?Capture.PNG
You could always just use the bounce feature and select the samplerate there, plus it duplicates your track effects.

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eXode
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20 Mar 2018

avasopht wrote:
20 Mar 2018
eXode wrote:
20 Mar 2018
In synthesis no, but in digital audio world there is aliasing.

I think the point he is trying to make is that the synths in Reason alias, more or less, while some other VST synths offer different means to enable/disable anti aliasing. Different anti aliasing measures consume CPU cycles so the option is usually there for the user to choose between fidelity or performance.
Sure, I know about aliasing. It's just not a "draft mode." That implies it's a tarnished method, though I get his sentiments.

And I do agree with the freedom to choose levels of oversampling. I'd also prefer behaviour like Waves where its samplerate is not entirely determined by the project setting.

There were some tests done on the PUF showing how the stock devices aliased on basic waveforms if you recall - Thor's wavetable was pretty clean.
Yes, the problem is that it's not only oscillators that alias. Filters and distortion alias too (basically anything that can generate harmonic overtones). While the oscillators in Thor are pretty clean, there are other parts such as the filters and the shaper that can introduce aliasing too.

avasopht
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20 Mar 2018

eXode wrote:
20 Mar 2018

Yes, the problem is that it's not only oscillators that alias. Filters and distortion alias too (basically anything that can generate harmonic overtones). While the oscillators in Thor are pretty clean, there are other parts such as the filters and the shaper that can introduce aliasing too.
For sure, though filters do not alias as they're linear (unless it's some emulation with non-linear effects).

deepndark
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20 Mar 2018

Thor has potential for sure but it actually slowly kills my nerves and is damaging my braincells. It can cause panic, karma and increase a possible psychosis to arrive.

jlgrimes
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20 Mar 2018

Oquasec wrote:
20 Mar 2018
Wow. so let's say I make whatever bump using subtractor at 48khz (Midi tracks not bounced beforehand) then at the end where it gives you the popup with the bit-depth/sample rate toggle...
Would this make sense to do?Capture.PNG
I wouldn’t just do this blindly though.

Sometimes it is the aliasing that is actually part of the sound.

Sometimes certain effects/synths can lose their charm without the aliasing.


Oversampling settings built in would be best as you could pick and choose what you want to be clean.

seqoi
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21 Mar 2018

avasopht wrote:
09 Mar 2018
hurricane wrote:
09 Mar 2018
That’s fine, except that I think ALL their synths, including Grain and Europa are set to “draft” mode. I’d appreciate a “divine” mode.
There is no such thing in synthesis, unless you know of some new technique none of the other DSP devs know of, and especially one that would go undetected.
I'll explain it better for you.

He was merely trying to point out for a switch between draft (easier on cpu but less spund quality) algorithm and "divine" top quality algorithm (high cpu usage but no aliasing or any kind of digital errors usually associated with digital synths especially old ones) - which is something U-he synths have. Not all of them but Diva is one of them.

I am under impression he thinks all PH Reason synths are having sacrificed sound to get better CPU usage (therefore draft mode). I personally disagree. I think even Thor let alone Grain or Europa are pretty optimized and not set in any draft mode or something.

Non related to you but if you guys think Reason can do what Max can (OSC integration, touch screen integrations, movement sensors, video support and dozen of other things) or Reaktor can do then knockyourself out and live under fantasia bubble.

Also if you think all algorithms are same then what can one say about it. Note I am not generally speaking of Reason as being worse when it comes to audio quality or being able to host amazing algorithm that is out of question. (Viking 2 is prime example of amazing Reason RE synth on pair with any top VST out there - imho). A plugins is a plugin and Reason being a host only spits out what is inside a plugin just as everyone else. But Reason is not Max or other way around and it can not do what Max can. But Max is not a Daw so Reason clearly wins there. Use both or anything just don't spread false informations.

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eXode
Posts: 838
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21 Mar 2018

avasopht wrote:
20 Mar 2018
eXode wrote:
20 Mar 2018

Yes, the problem is that it's not only oscillators that alias. Filters and distortion alias too (basically anything that can generate harmonic overtones). While the oscillators in Thor are pretty clean, there are other parts such as the filters and the shaper that can introduce aliasing too.
For sure, though filters do not alias as they're linear (unless it's some emulation with non-linear effects).
Most VA/Analog filters have non linear properties in their feedback path (resonance) though, so in real world scenarios, since a majority of softsynths emulate these kind of filters, there will be some aliasing. But anyway, the point was to highlight that more than oscillators can cause aliasing in the digital realm. :)

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Chizmata
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21 Mar 2018

As i work with reason 5 exclusively, i feel quite good about using its modules

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Oquasec
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21 Mar 2018

After switching back to windows 8 on the older prebuilt I have, I change my mind about vst support in Reason. It works.
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Re8et
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21 Mar 2018

They want combinator patches.... when they know what that is ;)

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Oquasec
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21 Mar 2018

The combinator...one of the best ideas I've seen in music software. stacking what is basically unlimited amounts of shit.
They weren't kidding.
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Voyager
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21 Mar 2018

Thor is still one if not my favorite synth. The sound that thing can pull out is just amazing..

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Oquasec
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21 Mar 2018

I might not stop using the reason 5 modules because of what you can do.
After a certain point the combinator just does what you need already.
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hurricane
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21 Mar 2018

seqoi wrote:
21 Mar 2018

I am under impression he thinks all PH Reason synths are having sacrificed sound to get better CPU usage (therefore draft mode).
Exactly.

I would bet my JP-8080 on it!
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Catblack
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07 Apr 2018

normen wrote:
17 Mar 2018
Having Reason and not using the built-in devices seems to go against what Reason is really. Who'd buy Reason solely as a DAW after just looking at it for 10 minutes? It's about the devices.

Somebody posted this in the Reasontalk chat the other day, captures perfectly what Reason is about imo (Reason 4 times). Loads of synth emulations, tube emulations, effects emulations and whatnot all done with Reason internal devices and nicely packed up. The demo songs are really nice too ;)

http://web.archive.org/web/200610160751 ... m_Shop.zip
That was me. I have been looking at the Wayback Machine with a fury, and it's interesting to see the early progression among Reason users in the jump from V1 to 2, and then 2.5. 2.5 gave us Scream4, rv7000 and the BV512. Then v3 added Combinators. There's just a huge amount of old sites and creativity out there, saved in little fragments on the wayback machine. (I have a spreadsheet going right now with things I find.)

I really have a sense of how this software has evolved and I really love it. To me it's the superior metaphor. And seeing what people have done with Reason 4 and 5, it's incredible. And since it was pre-RE, all those old patches just work, still.

Anyhow, finding the later 2.0+ version of Squeezeman's Custom Shop refill has been my white whale for 2 weeks now. I keep sifting through his Japanese website on the wayback machine hoping to find a clue as to his twitter handle or email. If anyone has the later version, or knows how to get in touch with him, let me know.
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