Do you need more DSP

[Carly(Poohbear)]

This is one of my Food for Thought videos.

My thought is using distributed computing to help with DSP....

PoohBear

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Recent Music made with Reason
(Electronic) Poly Madness
(Electronic) Solar Dance
(Electronic) Into The Night
(Upbeat) The Players Took Me There Made in Reason 9 with heavy use of the players
(Electronic) 5 Steps (Video added) Updated
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My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
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[avasopht]

Sounds a lot like ProTools HD, ...

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Sounds a lot like ProTools HD, ...

TBH I don't have a clue what other DAW's are up to, Reason only user.

What would be really nice if PH implemented a 2 way link over ethernet.

[QVprod]

Sounds a lot like ProTools HD, ...

TBH I don't have a clue what other DAW's are up to, Reason only user.

What would be really nice if PH implemented a 2 way link over ethernet.

Similar to Pro Tools HD, but different. Pro Tools HD is simply a separate processor that runs fx plugins instead of the host processor. This setup is master-slave which is basically what a lot of film composers do for large sample libraries using Vienna Ensemble Pro. Of course the benefit for them using this kind of configuration is that one, they're often using a pretty set template and two, VEP takes care of the audio and midi routing over ethernet controlled by a simple plugin interface on the host computer.

Too much work for me personally for use in Reason as I don't have set instruments that I use in every song and all of the EMIs and separate audio tracks needed would be a headache, but you can actually set up a 2 way link over ethernet. Midi can indeed be sent over ethernet natively on via audio/midi setup on macs and with a separate driver on Windows. Audio over ethernet can be done with a free plugin Wormhole2 (with quite a bit of setup). That would eliminate the need for you to bounce audio from one computer to the other, as well as avoid the need to use 2 separate audio interfaces over an adat connection.

[EdGrip]

I don't understand why track freezing isn't implemented.
Here's my dead simple implementation: Next to the Solo and Mute buttons, wherever they occur, there's also a Freeze button.
You just nip across the mixer or the rack or the sequencer, hitting Freeze on every track that you don't need to interact with in real time. Those tracks get rendered in the background as soon as you press the Freeze button, not rendered in real-time when you hit play.

This would put the user in very dynamic control of the DSP resources available to them.

I wonder if it would even be possible to basically *always* be rendering in the background, and keep things supple enough that if the user changes a note or twists a knob during playback, that particular device and anything downstream of it dynamically switches to real-time rendering without interrupting playback.

It all makes "always render everything in real time, that is the only option" seem archaic. We have loads of DSP. It's just managed terribly.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

TBH I don't have a clue what other DAW's are up to, Reason only user.

What would be really nice if PH implemented a 2 way link over ethernet.

Similar to Pro Tools HD, but different. Pro Tools HD is simply a separate processor that runs fx plugins instead of the host processor. This setup is master-slave which is basically what a lot of film composers do for large sample libraries using Vienna Ensemble Pro. Of course the benefit for them using this kind of configuration is that one, they're often using a pretty set template and two, VEP takes care of the audio and midi routing over ethernet controlled by a simple plugin interface on the host computer.

Too much work for me personally for use in Reason as I don't have set instruments that I use in every song and all of the EMIs and separate audio tracks needed would be a headache, but you can actually set up a 2 way link over ethernet. Midi can indeed be sent over ethernet natively on via audio/midi setup on macs and with a separate driver on Windows. Audio over ethernet can be done with a free plugin Wormhole2 (with quite a bit of setup). That would eliminate the need for you to bounce audio from one computer to the other, as well as avoid the need to use 2 separate audio interfaces over an adat connection.

interesting stuff...

Understand about it seams like a lot of fuss but maybe I should add that my workflow is I always create a combinator with the instrument in question and do as much as I can on my master, then copy and paste that instrument over to my slave, then I can just drop the EMI in on the combinator set the channel and off I go, but as I said it does become a little more of a mess with a lot of automation

Will look into that windows midi driver over ethernet and Wormhole, very interesting indeed, thanks for that insight.

[Loque]

Using LAN for audio render is a nice idea, but actually i am not willing to have multiple computers in my studio. DSP cards are a nice addition, but very expensive.

After downloading NI free phaser which had a size of >90MB i scratched my head and thought...guys....really...there is potential for optimization... Guess ppl are used to buy a new computer every 3-5 years, where they still run the same OS and the same apps and everything is getting slower and slower and requires terra bytes of disc space. Considering my first PC which was probably 5000 times slower than my actual PC it doesnt feel much faster now... So pls developers, sit back, relax, and OPTIMIZE YOUR F*CKING CODE!

[antic604]

So pls developers, sit back, relax, and OPTIMIZE YOUR F*CKING CODE!

Very much this

[madmacman]

Just because someone asked: Apple Logic does distributed processing via ethernet for a long time. When Apple was still in the market for servers, I remember they presented an impressive "rack" of several blades @ Frankfurt Music Fair.

From Wikipedia:

Distributed processing
The application features distributed processing abilities (in 32-bit mode), which can function across an Ethernet LAN. One machine runs the Logic Pro app, while the other machines on the network run the Logic node app. Logic will then offload the effects and synth processing to the other machines on the network. If the network is fast enough (i.e. gigabit Ethernet) this can work in near real-time, depending on buffer settings and CPU loads. This allows users to combine the power of several Macintosh computers to process Logic Pro’s built-in software instruments and plug-ins, and 3rd party processing plug-ins. As of version 10.0.7, Logic can access 24 processing threads, which is inline with Apple's flagship 12-core Mac Pro.

[submonsterz]

Reaper also can use other computers linked via rearoute. But all these linking methods come with need for extra licences for most pluggings etc it's all a mine field and stumbling blocks are mostly that, licenses for the software and pluggins having to buy multiples of them and dongles etc etc . I gave up multi computing with daws long ago it's way too expensive and way to drawn out to bother with.

[EdGrip]

Whenever there's something like a phaser that's 90MB rather than 5MB, I just cancel the download.

As the man once said to Kevin the goat, "There's no need for it, mate."

[DonnieAlan]

This is an issue we're all running into as music software gets more complex and sophisticated, with more bells and whistles, more CPU power is required. I'm constantly finding myself up against the limits of CPU these days, depending on what VI's I'm using and so forth. As you all know, some plugins are resource hogs. Others light on resources.

It would be nice to get track freeze on Reason. As a Pro Tools user myself (I use Reason mainly as an instrument rack), I was delighted when PT introduced track freeze. That helped a LOT with CPU issues. Still, I'm at the point, as I'm sure many of you are as well, where its time to just build a newer system with more powerful CPU.

I compose and arrange for film/video/games and its now becoming a necessity for me to have more power. I'm not doing any post-work, or I might be looking at going the Pro Tools HD route.

In any case, there's no easy fix for this issue as every system is different. We just need more POWER!

[demt]

Mind over matter take s sum skill to defeat the current computer zietgise df unconscioudly maxing out your own kit
Proofs of beating. this observation available if asked for

[esselfortium]

I don't understand why track freezing isn't implemented.
Here's my dead simple implementation: Next to the Solo and Mute buttons, wherever they occur, there's also a Freeze button.
You just nip across the mixer or the rack or the sequencer, hitting Freeze on every track that you don't need to interact with in real time. Those tracks get rendered in the background as soon as you press the Freeze button, not rendered in real-time when you hit play.

This would put the user in very dynamic control of the DSP resources available to them.

I wonder if it would even be possible to basically *always* be rendering in the background, and keep things supple enough that if the user changes a note or twists a knob during playback, that particular device and anything downstream of it dynamically switches to real-time rendering without interrupting playback.

It all makes "always render everything in real time, that is the only option" seem archaic. We have loads of DSP. It's just managed terribly.

Agreed! A simple toggleable track freeze in Reason would be a game changer. Bounce-in-place is too unwieldy for this usage, because of all the extra and completely separate tracks and devices created for each track bounced.

[normen]

So pls developers, sit back, relax, and OPTIMIZE YOUR F*CKING CODE!

It's a bit like the vacuum cleaners that can't get any more silent because people start to think they don't suck the dirt away properly. loud = good. Same with audio algorithms. Developers use loads CPU cycles to emulate nuances of analog parts because the users THINK they hear the "digital sound" and "no analog warmth". By now it got so far that these are mandatory and suddenly people like the Props who develop very sane algos that don't over-do it on the "more accuracy" and "more emulated" part have synths that use fractions of the other synths CPU load. And there we are, the vacuum cleaner isn't as loud any more and people start to think it sucks badly

[Loque]

So pls developers, sit back, relax, and OPTIMIZE YOUR F*CKING CODE!

It's a bit like the vacuum cleaners that can't get any more silent because people start to think they don't suck the dirt away properly. loud = good. Same with audio algorithms. Developers use loads CPU cycles to emulate nuances of analog parts because the users THINK they hear the "digital sound" and "no analog warmth". By now it got so far that these are mandatory and suddenly people like the Props who develop very sane algos that don't over-do it on the "more accuracy" and "more emulated" part have synths that use fractions of the other synths CPU load. And there we are, the vacuum cleaner isn't as loud any more and people start to think it sucks badly

Yea, right. It's like only a loud car is a good car... But maybe it's just broken and damaged.

[demt]

the only broken bit is our minds

[EdGrip]

the only broken bit is our minds

What if we're all just software emulations, man
What if we're actually really crude software emulations.
What if we're, like, Subtractor?

[Loque]

the only broken bit is our minds

What if we're all just software emulations, man
What if we're actually really crude software emulations.
What if we're, like, Subtractor?

If that would be true, it would explain why some ppl in this world have the CPU power of a gameboy.

[Heater]

Props. If you have proper track freeze in your next update I'll buy it I swear.

[EdGrip]

Props. If you have proper track freeze in your next update I'll buy it I swear.

Same.