strange behavior sustain on some synths

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Mich01
Posts: 130
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

18 Feb 2018

Hello everyone,

When messing around with Europa, I had some strange behaviour when using a sustainpedal. With my sustainpedal pressed (active), I play some keys which I do not release (let say the bass-notes). Then playing some other keys (let say chord) which I do release and repeat playing. In that case at some point, the synth will 'steal' the notes from the actual unreleased keys (bassnotes).
Increasing the polyphony of the synth will 'delay' the moment of 'stealing notes', but it is strange that it steals from actual pressed keys.
On Grain, I had the same result. And so it was on Thor!
On Subtractor and Malstrom it behaved as I aspected (= it did NOT steal notes from unreleased keys), so did it on NNXT and Radical piano .

Anyway never noticed this behaviour before (neither in previous versions).
Am I overlooking something or is it part of the synth's achitecture?

Regards Michel

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Carly(Poohbear)
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18 Feb 2018

I would always expect notes to be steeled, last note on and all that.

I just check with Subtractor and Malstrom and it did steal the notes, I take it in your case new notes were not heard?


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Mich01
Posts: 130
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

18 Feb 2018

I hear the new notes, but the are 'stolen' from keys that are being played (in other words I didn't send a note off for those keys).
I just checked again, but subtractor and malstrom are behaving different. The pressed keys sound as long as they are pressed, no matter if sustainpedal is on or off.

regards Michel

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

18 Feb 2018

Mich01 wrote:I hear the new notes, but the are 'stolen' from keys that are being played (in other words I didn't send a note off for those keys).
I just checked again, but subtractor and malstrom are behaving different. The pressed keys sound as long as they are pressed, no matter if sustainpedal is on or off.

regards Michel
Not here - what is your polyphony setting with Subtractor? Example: If I set it to 3 voices, and play a bass note then add a three note chord with my right hand, the bass note IS stolen.


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Mich01
Posts: 130
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

19 Feb 2018

Hello Selig,

The subtractor (and malstrom) behave like I expected. The pressed keys sound untill I release them, no matter if the sustain pedal is pressed or not.
On Thor, Grain and Europa, with 'sustainpedal on' the notes are stolen from all keys no matter if I they still pressed or not. So that's another behaviour.
I varied with the polyphonysetting. That only delays the moment on which the notes are being stolen, but the behaviour is the same:
With 'sustainpedal on' , the sounding notes end at the moment I reach the maximum of polyphony, regardless if the keys are pressed or not.

Regards Michel

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

20 Feb 2018

Mich01 wrote:Hello Selig,

The subtractor (and malstrom) behave like I expected. The pressed keys sound untill I release them, no matter if the sustain pedal is pressed or not.
On Thor, Grain and Europa, with 'sustainpedal on' the notes are stolen from all keys no matter if I they still pressed or not. So that's another behaviour.
I varied with the polyphonysetting. That only delays the moment on which the notes are being stolen, but the behaviour is the same:
With 'sustainpedal on' , the sounding notes end at the moment I reach the maximum of polyphony, regardless if the keys are pressed or not.

Regards Michel
Not sure what to say, especially if no one else can replicate what you’re experiencing!


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Carly(Poohbear)
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20 Feb 2018

selig wrote:
20 Feb 2018
Mich01 wrote:Hello Selig,

The subtractor (and malstrom) behave like I expected. The pressed keys sound untill I release them, no matter if the sustain pedal is pressed or not.
On Thor, Grain and Europa, with 'sustainpedal on' the notes are stolen from all keys no matter if I they still pressed or not. So that's another behaviour.
I varied with the polyphonysetting. That only delays the moment on which the notes are being stolen, but the behaviour is the same:
With 'sustainpedal on' , the sounding notes end at the moment I reach the maximum of polyphony, regardless if the keys are pressed or not.

Regards Michel
Not sure what to say, especially if no one else can replicate what you’re experiencing!


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I just tried this again with a sustain pedal and there is a difference but not quite what you are explaining unless I misread what you meant but it is the same for Subtractor, Thor and Europa.

I set Subtractor, Thor and Europa to 3 note polyphonic.
Played 3 notes (one after the other) holding the keys down, then repeated to play one of the notes that I had already played, no notes were stolen.

2nd test (setup the same)
Held down the sustain pedal, played and released 3 different notes (sustain held), then repeated to play one of the notes that I had already played, the notes were stolen (one at a time of each press of the same key).

Note the sustain pedal I used was a simple on\off type.

Mich01
Posts: 130
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

21 Feb 2018

Hi all,

I see that I can't explain it well. I've made a reasonfile, with a subtractor and a thor. I plays the same clip on both synths, with 'sustain on'. This same clip behave different on
the thor then it does on the subtractor. The polyphonysetting is 4 on both synths.
For the case it has something to do with my setup, I also share the audio-output as a separate file. The first part of the sequence is the subtractor (with sustain on). The second part is the thor (with sustain on). I hope that this makes my question a bit clearer ;) .


Greetz Michel

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wKnEU ... TfpefGkmqu

Peter Jubel
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 May 2016

21 Feb 2018

You are right, I will fix it in next update.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Location: UK

21 Feb 2018

I was going to confirm your findings, but you can't get a better answer than what Peter has given you :)

Mich01
Posts: 130
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

22 Feb 2018

Hi Folks

Thanks for your replies.
@ Peter, that 'll be fine.
Now I' m gonna make some music again :D

Regards Michel

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