PC that can run reason 10 without limitations

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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EnochLight
Posts: 4971
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 24 May 2018

Raveshaper wrote:
23 May 2018
buddard wrote:
23 May 2018
To me, this sounds like an awful lot of speculation (and I know some of the above statements to be untrue for sure) that is stated as if it were fact. In my humble opinion this is a sure way to start rumors that most probably are inaccurate. I'm not sure if this is really what you want to achieve by posting this?
You trimmed off the part where i say "if I'm wrong then [why do updates feel like fragile patches]".

I stand corrected if this isn't true. But then, riddle me this: why do updates to the app and the seeming core architecture of the code in Reason itself feel like it was written by people who don't know computer science?

Basic things are done in very old and very remedial ways that contemporary computing has long since grown out of for the most part.

In short:
If the code can be improved and freely evolve over time to get better, why isn't.

EDIT: By contrast, Image Line makes release candidates available to established customers specifically for testing to make sure they get it right before releasing it as retail, and they put in lots of new features and improvements, not a couple things that shouldn't have taken a couple of years to build.

If one or two people are working on this on the few months they aren't on perpetual vacation, what did Verdane buy, exactly?

There needs to be some good faith transparency here. Something smells.
He left off that part because this:
Raveshaper wrote:
23 May 2018
And the elephant in the room is that technically the code can't be updated.

Each new stock device since version 3 is the property of the dev contracted out to build it. You can't improve Malstrom for example because that belongs to Magnus Lindstrom. There's so much legacy code that native Reason is basically a curated time capsule of other people's work. It can't change internally the way you say it must.
...is taking a lot of liberties with reality.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

Rawbie
Posts: 1
Joined: 01 Dec 2018

Post 01 Dec 2018

Hey. I wanna kick this discussion back up a bit.
Any one know if Ryzen is now better with the latency?
Standing in the middle between getting the i7 9700k or a Ryzen 7 1700x.

So any updates how things are going ?

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EnochLight
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Post 02 Dec 2018

Rawbie wrote:
01 Dec 2018
Hey. I wanna kick this discussion back up a bit.
Any one know if Ryzen is now better with the latency?
Standing in the middle between getting the i7 9700k or a Ryzen 7 1700x.

So any updates how things are going ?
If you mean the latest Ryzen refresh, its architecture has only exasperated the issue with low latency. That said, plenty of people get on just fine using it (and Threadripper). Just because the latest i7/i9 line can get more instances of a given plugin at low latencies doesn’t mean Ryzen/TR aren’t great alternatives, especially if you’re trying to save money. That said, have you read the ScanPro Audio results?

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2017/08/14 ... 20x-1950x/

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/08/24 ... repeating/

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/05/02 ... testbench/
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Heigen5
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Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 02 Dec 2018

When will there be i9 Intels running @3,4Ghz, because there's no sense to buy before they don't?

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EnochLight
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Post 02 Dec 2018

Heigen5 wrote:
02 Dec 2018
When will there be i9 Intels running @3,4Ghz, because there's no sense to buy before they don't?
Why? Both the 9700k and 9900k can easily be overclocked - on all cores - to at least 4.5 Ghz on air cooling, with core temps kept well below T-Junction.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/in ... -review/22
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Heigen5
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Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 02 Dec 2018

EnochLight wrote:
02 Dec 2018
Heigen5 wrote:
02 Dec 2018
When will there be i9 Intels running @3,4Ghz, because there's no sense to buy before they don't?
Why? Both the 9700k and 9900k can easily be overclocked - on all cores - to at least 4.5 Ghz on air cooling, with core temps kept well below T-Junction.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/in ... -review/22
Ah, Ok, cool. I think I need to start saving money then. :puf_smile: :thumbs_up:

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Heigen5
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Post 02 Dec 2018

@EnochLight , is it easy to overclock em, is there some software that can do it easylie?

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EnochLight
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Post 02 Dec 2018

Heigen5 wrote:
02 Dec 2018
@EnochLight , is it easy to overclock em, is there some software that can do it easylie?
It is easy. It can be done from your UEFI using 2 or 3 settings (at minimal), or you can use the software that comes with your motherboard (assuming you buy a quality motherboard that supports overclocking). Plenty of online resources these days.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Heigen5
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Location: Lõvi-isa

Post 02 Dec 2018

EnochLight wrote:
02 Dec 2018
Heigen5 wrote:
02 Dec 2018
@EnochLight , is it easy to overclock em, is there some software that can do it easylie?
It is easy. It can be done from your UEFI using 2 or 3 settings (at minimal), or you can use the software that comes with your motherboard (assuming you buy a quality motherboard that supports overclocking). Plenty of online resources these days.
There's no hurry yet, because it may take few years before I've saved enough for it. But I'll make sure I ask people before I'll buy anything. :thumbs_up:
Thanks!

two shoes
Posts: 50
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

Post 04 Dec 2018

I didn't read the other replies, but as one point of reference I have an i7 7700k (delidded, conductive ti, water cooled, stable oc at 5.2ghz) machine that I built for gaming and audio. My projects aren't as large and complex as some folks, but I have yet to run into any real limitations. Projects with a couple dozen tracks and maybe a half dozen big instruments plus lots of effects and so forth seem to top out at two bars on the dsp meter.

Round trip audio latency is very low via an ancient but still very serviceable EMU 1616m pci-e audio card - I haven't measured it but based on experience it's probably <15ms - you can monitor a guitar signal running through one of the Kuassa amps and a few effects without feeling out of sync.

From what I understand Reason 10 is CPU bound and memory/gpu aren't big factors in it's performance at the moment, but my system has 16gb memory and a 1080ti. Whatefer else you do, I'd spend the money for a good Samsung 970 or WD Black m.2 nvme ssd - esp if you work with samples a lot. Considering Reason's lack of multi-core optimization I suspect the current sweetspot for cost / performance is about an i7 9700k. If I were you though I'd hold out a few more weeks to see what they manage with the eagerly anticipated "performance update" (Lord help us if it sucks) - if they knock it of of the park and Reason is suddenly the most multi-core efficient DAW around then Ryzen might be a much better value proposition than Intel who have some serious catching up to do when it comes to 7nm lithography (get some AMD stock before errybody know this).

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Oquasec
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Post 04 Dec 2018

Need nothing below an i3 for regular usage.
Producer/Sound Designer.
Anything works.

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miscend
Posts: 1086
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Post 05 Dec 2018

Raveshaper wrote:
18 Apr 2018

Each new stock device since version 3 is the property of the dev contracted out to build it. You can't improve Malstrom for example because that belongs to Magnus Lindstrom. There's so much legacy code that native Reason is basically a curated time capsule of other people's work. It can't change internally the way you say it must.

And if I'm wrong, why is everything done in such a fragile and messy way with no updates or when something is updated it breaks.

I'm not paying any more money for twenty years of beta release packaged as final version.
AFAIK most of the devices were developed internally. The guys that made Thor, Substractor and Parsec all work at Props. The stuff made by external contractors are the exception rather than the norm. And besides Props have the source code to all devices and can update any of them whenever they decide to. RV7000 for example was updated with an IR ability and the samplers were all given a sampling input. There's not as much legacy code as you think, right now they're doing a rewrite of parts of it to improve performance particularly for VSTs. And before that when they added audio for Record that was all brand new code as the old engine was not built for audio recording. They've been a lot of changes over the years.

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miscend
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Post 05 Dec 2018

Raveshaper wrote:
23 May 2018
buddard wrote:
23 May 2018
To me, this sounds like an awful lot of speculation (and I know some of the above statements to be untrue for sure) that is stated as if it were fact. In my humble opinion this is a sure way to start rumors that most probably are inaccurate. I'm not sure if this is really what you want to achieve by posting this?
You trimmed off the part where i say "if I'm wrong then [why do updates feel like fragile patches]".

I stand corrected if this isn't true. But then, riddle me this: why do updates to the app and the seeming core architecture of the code in Reason itself feel like it was written by people who don't know computer science?

Basic things are done in very old and very remedial ways that contemporary computing has long since grown out of for the most part.

In short:
If the code can be improved and freely evolve over time to get better, why isn't.

EDIT: By contrast, Image Line makes release candidates available to established customers specifically for testing to make sure they get it right before releasing it as retail, and they put in lots of new features and improvements, not a couple things that shouldn't have taken a couple of years to build.

If one or two people are working on this on the few months they aren't on perpetual vacation, what did Verdane buy, exactly?

There needs to be some good faith transparency here. Something smells.
Who told you Props don't make release candidate versions and don't do any testing with users before release? Anyway Propellerheads and Imageline are different developers with different ways of working.

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EnochLight
Posts: 4971
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 05 Dec 2018

two shoes wrote:
04 Dec 2018
Considering Reason's lack of multi-core optimization
I don't know why people keep saying this when it is simply not true. Reason works great on multi-core (and will use as many as you throw at it). What it is NOT optimized for is Hyperthreading, which is hit or miss (usually miss :lol: ).

Reason has been optimized for multi-core for at least the last 4 versions.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

two shoes
Posts: 50
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

Post 05 Dec 2018

EnochLight wrote:
05 Dec 2018
two shoes wrote:
04 Dec 2018
Considering Reason's lack of multi-core optimization
I don't know why people keep saying this when it is simply not true. Reason works great on multi-core (and will use as many as you throw at it). What it is NOT optimized for is Hyperthreading, which is hit or miss (usually miss :lol: ).

Reason has been optimized for multi-core for at least the last 4 versions.
Watch your CPU behavior across all cores while running a large dsp heavy Reason project and I think you'll find you're mistaken on this point. DAWs in general are not very well optimized, but the most multi-core efficient of them (e.g. Reaper) are an order of magnitude better than Reason which currently tanks near the bottom if not dead last amongst the DAWs I have experience with (Live, FL Studio, Reaper, Cubase, Logic, and Reason). Not trying to upset you, but it's very true that in is current state Reason is very poorly optimized for multi-core processors compared to other major DAWs.

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EnochLight
Posts: 4971
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 05 Dec 2018

two shoes wrote:
05 Dec 2018
EnochLight wrote:
05 Dec 2018


I don't know why people keep saying this when it is simply not true. Reason works great on multi-core (and will use as many as you throw at it). What it is NOT optimized for is Hyperthreading, which is hit or miss (usually miss :lol: ).

Reason has been optimized for multi-core for at least the last 4 versions.
Watch your CPU behavior across all cores while running a large dsp heavy Reason project and I think you'll find you're mistaken on this point. DAWs in general are not very well optimized, but the most multi-core efficient of them (e.g. Reaper) are an order of magnitude better than Reason which currently tanks near the bottom if not dead last amongst the DAWs I have experience with (Live, FL Studio, Reaper, Cubase, Logic, and Reason). Not trying to upset you, but it's very true that in is current state Reason is very poorly optimized for multi-core processors compared to other major DAWs.
Oh I'm not upset - it just seems there's a lot of misinformation going around. No one is denying Reason performs poorly compared to most other DAW (when running VST). Anyone can prove this for themself - I know I can. I can get an order of magnitude more instances of most other VST in Studio One than I can Reason.

But you're conflating two different things. Suggesting Reason isn't optimized for multi-core doesn't add up. If I load up dozens upon dozens of Thors into a project playing a MIDI clip, wired into a few effects, 3 out of 4 of my cores are utilized 100% (Reason keeps 1 core free for GUI/UX stuff). That's just how it works. That does not suggest it's not "optimized"; on the contrary, it works just as it was designed to do: 1 core is always kept free so the GUI/UX remains responsive.

Reaper's performance will never be touched by any DAW, because frankly - it's pretty basic as far as DAW's go. It doesn't come with gigabytes upon gigabytes of sounds, nor does it comes with dozens upon dozens of instruments, effects, and utilities built-in to it in a proprietary format. And virtually all VST have access to your OS's graphics. Reason does it all itself for its built-in stuff.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

mcatalao
Posts: 786
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 05 Dec 2018

SA Studio wrote:
14 Apr 2018
The fact that Reason is now 64bit, that "CPU Limit" option is not only a dinosaur and not needed at all, it completely ties people hands out of the box. But the fact there's a CPU Limit option in a 64bit only app is....well, it means they're not updating the right things for the last few versions. That's the biggest amount of programming irony you're likely to ever witness = A CPU Limit option in a 64bit app that can address over 4gb RAM.
I agree the CPU limit makes not sense at this time, as most OS's manage CPU eficiently, but your reason is imho wrong.

To my knowledge the Cpu Limit only limits CPU usage, not memory usage. These are not related issues. You can keep creating more stuff in the app loading audio and synths and memory will not be your problem, as Reason will always be able to address as many ram you have and the OS is capable of giving to the app.

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EnochLight
Posts: 4971
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Post 05 Dec 2018

mcatalao wrote:
05 Dec 2018
I agree the CPU limit makes not sense at this time, as most OS's manage CPU efficiently, but your reason is imho wrong.

To my knowledge the Cpu Limit only limits CPU usage, not memory usage. These are not related issues. You can keep creating more stuff in the app loading audio and synths and memory will not be your problem, as Reason will always be able to address as many ram you have and the OS is capable of giving to the app.
True (at the risk of inadvertently engaging with a Ras Cricket necromancy post, you're totally spot on).
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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