R10 Beginner Questions

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graeme75
Posts: 290
Joined: 19 May 2015

11 Jan 2018

Hi

I’m getting back into Reason with Reason 10 and one of my NY resolutions was to try and finish more tracks. To help me do this I have been following tutorials where they complete a track from start to finish (unfortunately most of these are in other DAWs and with many common VSTs that I don’t have). I set myself the goal of trying in the main of using Reasons native devices to follow along. I have hit a few hurdles/queries along the way of anyone can enlighten me. (There’s quite a few questions, highlighted)

SUB-BASS & SIDECHAINING
At one part of the tutorial they create a sub-bass (standard sine wave – with notes F#1, C#1, F#0). I did this in Europa.
This Sub-bass tended to have ‘clicks’ in it. They mentioned if this happens to raise the attack of the amp level slightly and/or set it to Mono. Raising the attack of the amp level seemed to help, but how do you set Europa to Mono?, normally I have seen in most synths a toggle, but Europa just seems to have Poly/Retrig/Legato
This sub-bass was then to be side chained. I set up a ghost kick on a redrum .
Is it best to use the SSL compressor settings, or the MClass Compressor on the element to be SC? Is the only main difference more control on the MClass?
However the sidechain caused a clicking as if some of the signal was coming through, I tried raising the attack ,which helped a bit but there are still clicks there. How do I remove clicking from the sidechain compressor?

DRUM EDIT
I like to try and keep all my drums within the 1 device (Redrum or Kong). My understanding is that when editing drum hits in the drum mode, that the MIDI note length is ignored and basically just acts as a trigger. What I would like to know is if you had a snare sample that lasts for 1/8, how can I input MIDI in such a way that the note length is adhered to in Kong or Redrum?. So if I put a 1/16 note then an 1/8 note that’s what Kong/Redrum would playback?

REGROOVE
Does Regroove only alter the even 1/16 notes? (2,4,6 etc).
How can you tell regroove to only affect the 1/8 or 1/4notes?
Can regroove only be applied to MIDI lanes?
If I wanted to add regroove to an audio clip, would I have to bounce it down to a rex loop, or insert into a sampler first?



and finally, how do you EQ the master channel? Do you have to create a bus channel of all elements and EQ this?

Many thanks for taking the time to read and any feedback greatly appreciated

Cheers
Graeme

antic604

11 Jan 2018

graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018
how do you set Europa to Mono?[/color], normally I have seen in most synths a toggle, but Europa just seems to have Poly/Retrig/Legato
Set number of voices (right below Europa's master volume) to 1, which will give you a monosynth, not necessarily mono sound (I think that's what you're asking for).

If you want the *sound* to be mono, then put a M-Class Stereo Imager behind Europa and set its Lo & Hi Bands to 'Mono'
graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018
This sub-bass was then to be side chained. I set up a ghost kick on a redrum .
Is it best to use the SSL compressor settings, or the MClass Compressor on the element to be SC? Is the only main difference more control on the MClass?
However the sidechain caused a clicking as if some of the signal was coming through, I tried raising the attack ,which helped a bit but there are still clicks there. How do I remove clicking from the sidechain compressor?
Same as with sub-bass, usually tweaking attack AND release help. Also, instead of using M-Class you could try using the SSL mixer's compressor, by sending the parallel signal of the kick (or in this case - mix channel's output, since it's a "ghost kick" anyway) to the sidechain input of the bass.


BTW, please don't use that blue colour - with a forum's dark theme it's almost invisible & makes the eyes hurt :)
Last edited by antic604 on 11 Jan 2018, edited 2 times in total.

antic604

11 Jan 2018

graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018
and finally, how do you EQ the master channel? Do you have to create a bus channel of all elements and EQ this?
Put an EQ in Master Channel's inserts slot - that's where you put (typically, not always) your mastering devices.

antic604

11 Jan 2018

graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018
DRUM EDIT
I like to try and keep all my drums within the 1 device (Redrum or Kong). My understanding is that when editing drum hits in the drum mode, that the MIDI note length is ignored and basically just acts as a trigger. What I would like to know is if you had a snare sample that lasts for 1/8, how can I input MIDI in such a way that the note length is adhered to in Kong or Redrum?. So if I put a 1/16 note then an 1/8 note that’s what Kong/Redrum would playback?
Those I'm not sure (haven't used them extensively yet) but try:
- in Kong, reducting Decay - per each / relevant pad - to zero,
- in Redrum, changing Length to zero and switching envelope to gate (square) mode

WongoTheSane
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Location: Paris, France

11 Jan 2018

graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018
how do you set Europa to Mono?, normally I have seen in most synths a toggle, but Europa just seems to have Poly/Retrig/Legato
I think they meant Mono as opposed to Stereo, not Mono as opposed to Poly (it makes sense to center a very low frequency in the stereo field). To do this, simply unplug the Right audio connector between Europa and the Mix Channel.

antic604

11 Jan 2018

WongoTheSane wrote:
11 Jan 2018
graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018
how do you set Europa to Mono?, normally I have seen in most synths a toggle, but Europa just seems to have Poly/Retrig/Legato
I think they meant Mono as opposed to Stereo, not Mono as opposed to Poly (it makes sense to center a very low frequency in the stereo field). To do this, simply unplug the Right audio connector between Europa and the Mix Channel.
You're right, since even polyphonic synth can generate mono sound. Hence I mentioned both. Although your 'trick' with plugging just one cable is brilliant, typically Reason-y :D

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selig
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11 Jan 2018

For the ducking trick, try using an LFO or RE like SideChain ReAction instead, or there are plenty of VSTs that do similar things - you'll typically get 'tighter' results that way in my experience

Otherwise, one solution to get rid of clicking would be to create a lookahead delay of a few ms - a little confusing to setup but totally doable in Reason.
Selig Audio, LLC

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aeox
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11 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
11 Jan 2018
Otherwise, one solution to get rid of clicking would be to create a lookahead delay of a few ms - a little confusing to setup but totally doable in Reason.
Enlighten me!

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selig
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11 Jan 2018

aeox wrote:
11 Jan 2018
selig wrote:
11 Jan 2018
Otherwise, one solution to get rid of clicking would be to create a lookahead delay of a few ms - a little confusing to setup but totally doable in Reason.
Enlighten me!
You would need to run the audio being ducked through a delay (stereo delay if using stereo source), such as The Echo. You'll only need a few ms of delay for this to work but it adds latency. Reason should accommodate this with Delay Comp turned on. If not you'll have to enter the delay manually.

This essentially places the trigger ahead of the ducker, allowing it to "open" ever so slightly ahead of the audio being ducked. It's all relative - obviously the audio being ducked is "behind" the trigger. ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

antic604

11 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
11 Jan 2018
aeox wrote:
11 Jan 2018


Enlighten me!
You would need to run the audio being ducked through a delay (stereo delay if using stereo source), such as The Echo. You'll only need a few ms of delay for this to work but it adds latency. Reason should accommodate this with Delay Comp turned on. If not you'll have to enter the delay manually.

This essentially places the trigger ahead of the ducker, allowing it to "open" ever so slightly ahead of the audio being ducked. It's all relative - obviously the audio being ducked is "behind" the trigger. ;)
Great tip (as always!), but wouldn't it be easier to do it putting a device like this (FREE) on the sidechain signal?
https://dmgaudio.com/products_trackcontrol.php

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selig
RE Developer
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11 Jan 2018

antic604 wrote:
selig wrote:
11 Jan 2018
You would need to run the audio being ducked through a delay (stereo delay if using stereo source), such as The Echo. You'll only need a few ms of delay for this to work but it adds latency. Reason should accommodate this with Delay Comp turned on. If not you'll have to enter the delay manually.

This essentially places the trigger ahead of the ducker, allowing it to "open" ever so slightly ahead of the audio being ducked. It's all relative - obviously the audio being ducked is "behind" the trigger. ;)
Great tip (as always!), but wouldn't it be easier to do it putting a device like this (FREE) on the sidechain signal?
https://dmgaudio.com/products_trackcontrol.php
All that for a delay?


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC

antic604

11 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
11 Jan 2018
antic604 wrote:
Great tip (as always!), but wouldn't it be easier to do it putting a device like this (FREE) on the sidechain signal?
https://dmgaudio.com/products_trackcontrol.php
All that for a delay?


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Yes. How is that any more than attaching a full delay unit? It's simple track utility plugin.

househoppin09
Posts: 536
Joined: 03 Aug 2016

12 Jan 2018

It's a bit of a pain to resort to a whole separate VST with the pop-out window and all when a super-simple unobtrusive native rack device will do the job just as well, though. (Thanks for the tip on that VST though, I didn't know about that and it looks great!)

graeme75
Posts: 290
Joined: 19 May 2015

14 Jan 2018

Cheers for all the info, many thanks

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selig
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14 Jan 2018

antic604 wrote:
selig wrote:
11 Jan 2018


All that for a delay?


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Yes. How is that any more than attaching a full delay unit? It's simple track utility plugin.
Wait - are you asking how a device billing itself as “Everything, in one place” is “any more” than just a simple delay? [emoji6]

It is, by definition, everything more than just a delay.


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC

antic604

14 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
14 Jan 2018
antic604 wrote:
Yes. How is that any more than attaching a full delay unit? It's simple track utility plugin.
Wait - are you asking how a device billing itself as “Everything, in one place” is “any more” than just a simple delay? [emoji6]

It is, by definition, everything more than just a delay.


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
You're really trying to win this, don't you? :D Yes, it's billing itself as "everything, in one place", but meant as everything that you'd need from a channel utility device, similar to Live's Tool or Bitwig's Utility or Studio One's Mix Tool...

But I see this is a theme with Reason: use Pulveriser for envelope follower, use Vocoder for EQ, use MClass Stereo Imager for mono, etc. :)

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raveled
Competition Winner
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14 Jan 2018

Regarding the ducking trick mentioned by Selig, I just wanted to add that you can also use Synchronous for this (now included with Reason 10)!

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
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14 Jan 2018

antic604 wrote:
selig wrote:
14 Jan 2018
Wait - are you asking how a device billing itself as “Everything, in one place” is “any more” than just a simple delay? [emoji6]

It is, by definition, everything more than just a delay.


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
You're really trying to win this, don't you? :D Yes, it's billing itself as "everything, in one place", but meant as everything that you'd need from a channel utility device, similar to Live's Tool or Bitwig's Utility or Studio One's Mix Tool...

But I see this is a theme with Reason: use Pulveriser for envelope follower, use Vocoder for EQ, use MClass Stereo Imager for mono, etc. :)
I’m actually trying to loose this - winning is so last year.
Not sure how answering your question became a zero sum endeavor!

Use whatever you want.

Personally speaking, I’m typically pushing my system’s resources, so I try to use the least feature-rich tool for the job whenever possible. That’s all that’s behind my comments, fwiw.


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Selig Audio, LLC

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Voyager
Posts: 535
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14 Jan 2018

WongoTheSane wrote:
11 Jan 2018

graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018

how do you set Europa to Mono?, normally I have seen in most synths a toggle, but Europa just seems to have Poly/Retrig/Legato


I think they meant Mono as opposed to Stereo, not Mono as opposed to Poly (it makes sense to center a very low frequency in the stereo field). To do this, simply unplug the Right audio connector between Europa and the Mix Channel.


To make a track mono is there technically a difference from unplug the right channel and reducing the ssl mixer width to zero ? And why would you choose one way or another ?

WongoTheSane
Moderator
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14 Jan 2018

Voyager wrote:
14 Jan 2018
WongoTheSane wrote:
11 Jan 2018



I think they meant Mono as opposed to Stereo, not Mono as opposed to Poly (it makes sense to center a very low frequency in the stereo field). To do this, simply unplug the Right audio connector between Europa and the Mix Channel.


To make a track mono is there technically a difference from unplug the right channel and reducing the ssl mixer width to zero ? And why would you choose one way or another ?
Yes, there is when the synth is stereo (which isn't the case for Subtractor for instance): unplugging the right channel will only output the left channel, while setting the SSL to 0 width will sum both left and right into a single, centered output. You can check the difference by trying this: pick a stereo synth (Europa for instance) and set a LFO to control panning of an oscillator. Unplug the right channel and bounce in place; then replug the right channel, set the SSL width to 0 and bounce again. In the first case, the sound will be increasing and decreasing at a certain speed (the LFO speed); in the second case, it will increase and decrease twice as fast, but you'll barely be able to hear it (as one channel decreasing compensates the other channel increasing).

In the case of Graeme's question, I suggested unplugging the right channel for two reasons: 1) seeing that he wanted to sidechain, I assumed the source would be a kick, which is generally centered, so choosing either solution would be equivalent, and 2) not knowing how he would do the sidechaining itself (whether he would take the output of the device, or the parallel output of the SSL channel), I figured picking the left channel would cover more cases.

But choosing one over the other depends on what the source is and what you're trying to achieve, so there's no "one size fits all" answer.

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selig
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14 Jan 2018

WongoTheSane wrote:
graeme75 wrote:
11 Jan 2018
how do you set Europa to Mono?, normally I have seen in most synths a toggle, but Europa just seems to have Poly/Retrig/Legato
I think they meant Mono as opposed to Stereo, not Mono as opposed to Poly (it makes sense to center a very low frequency in the stereo field). To do this, simply unplug the Right audio connector between Europa and the Mix Channel.
Wongo, to be clear, and as you’ve already stated else where, removing one channel from Europa doesn’t make it mono as originally stated in the quote above.

I actually was going to agree with your first post until I tried it and realized this is not the case.

But since you’ve posted two different explanations of what happens when removing one cable from Europa, I just wanted to state for the record that your most recent post is the correct one!

(I realize that you are talking about a kick above, but your original post stated this would work with Europa.)


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WongoTheSane
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Location: Paris, France

14 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
14 Jan 2018
WongoTheSane wrote:
I think they meant Mono as opposed to Stereo, not Mono as opposed to Poly (it makes sense to center a very low frequency in the stereo field). To do this, simply unplug the Right audio connector between Europa and the Mix Channel.
Wongo, to be clear, and as you’ve already stated else where, removing one channel from Europa doesn’t make it mono as originally stated in the quote above.

I actually was going to agree with your first post until I tried it and realized this is not the case.

But since you’ve posted two different explanations of what happens when removing one cable from Europa, I just wanted to state for the record that your most recent post is the correct one!

(I realize that you are talking about a kick above, but your original post stated this would work with Europa.)


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Indeed, I assumed OP's sub bass would be centered anyway, and forgot to specify that both methods are only equivalent when the sound itself is centered. Hope my last post clarifies this.

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