Intel 7820X & Reason?

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Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

02 Jan 2018

Hey guys, I'm currently looking to upgrade my current 6700k system to a newer generation and a chip with more cores. The 6700k has been great but struggles under some more complex projects often.

I had a look at this thread and it looks like the 8700k is actually a decent choice, beign that its a 6 core instead of intels usual 4 core offering. But i am also looking at potentially upgrading to X299 too, namely the 7820X.
This chip is an octocore and is also quad channel RAM, which is why I'm making this thread to hopefully fish for some help/advice.

Does anyone know currently if Reason makes good use of the extra RAM bandwidth of a quad channel mem system when using VSTs such as kontakt/addictivedrums etc?

Also, is there anyone on the forum that currently is running a 7820X system or has access to one for potential benchmarking with the file from that thread I mentioned at the start?

I'm also planning on upgrading my old focusrite audio interface to a nicer Antelope one, so that should help in future too.

Cheers!

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Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

02 Jan 2018

RAM won't be a bottleneck nor a significant consideration unless you're running major sample-based instruments.

I'm in a holding pattern with the Discreet 4 unit at the moment, they haven't released any of the items I specifically bought it for yet (mic modeling, afx2daw, thunderbolt drivers for PC).
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

02 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
RAM won't be a bottleneck nor a significant consideration unless you're running major sample-based instruments.

I'm in a holding pattern with the Discreet 4 unit at the moment, they haven't released any of the items I specifically bought it for yet (mic modeling, afx2daw, thunderbolt drivers for PC).
Yeah i saw that about the Discreet 4 too, that they havent released windows drivers for thunderbolt yet. I emailed them asking if theres an EST on it before i buy one but no reply just yet.

What system did you upgrade from before you went to 8700k? And did you notice a huge jump?
Did you run the benchmark before and after upgrading or only after?

Edit: Checked my junk mail and got this response from Antelope audio:

"Hello Sir,

Thank you for contacting Antelope Audio Technical Support.

The Thunderbolt driver for Windows is still under development and I do not have any official information when the driver will be released.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need any further assistance or information.

Regards.

Technical Support Specialist

Antelope Audio "

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

02 Jan 2018

Protostar wrote:
02 Jan 2018
Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
RAM won't be a bottleneck nor a significant consideration unless you're running major sample-based instruments.

I'm in a holding pattern with the Discreet 4 unit at the moment, they haven't released any of the items I specifically bought it for yet (mic modeling, afx2daw, thunderbolt drivers for PC).
Yeah i saw that about the Discreet 4 too, that they havent released windows drivers for thunderbolt yet. I emailed them asking if theres an EST on it before i buy one but no reply just yet.

What system did you upgrade from before you went to 8700k? And did you notice a huge jump?
Did you run the benchmark before and after upgrading or only after?

Edit: Checked my junk mail and got this response from Antelope audio:

"Hello Sir,

Thank you for contacting Antelope Audio Technical Support.

The Thunderbolt driver for Windows is still under development and I do not have any official information when the driver will be released.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need any further assistance or information.

Regards.

Technical Support Specialist

Antelope Audio "
They told me sometime in the summer, which could mean never. I'm likely returning the unit but giving them a bit of time since Sweetwater specifically told me I could wait beyond the 30 days since they haven't released the mics or anything.

As for systems, I have 4 fairly beefy systems here, I tend to build one every couple of years with minor upgrades as we go. I never benchmark anything, I've been building them for 20 years so I tend to be more mundane about it and know what to expect. Unless you're talking pure CPU power which I did in that benchmark thread just for kicks.

I built my newest system as an offline DAW with specific requirements like 4k, silent, cool, thunderbolt, couple others (which is why I chose some "incompatible components' most builders would be afraid to attempt). At its price point in its sliver of time, its unbeatable.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

02 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
They told me sometime in the summer, which could mean never. I'm likely returning the unit but giving them a bit of time since Sweetwater specifically told me I could wait beyond the 30 days since they haven't released the mics or anything.

As for systems, I have 4 fairly beefy systems here, I tend to build one every couple of years with minor upgrades as we go. I never benchmark anything, I've been building them for 20 years so I tend to be more mundane about it and know what to expect. Unless you're talking pure CPU power which I did in that benchmark thread just for kicks.

I built my newest system as an offline DAW with specific requirements like 4k, silent, cool, thunderbolt, couple others (which is why I chose some "incompatible components' most builders would be afraid to attempt). At its price point in its sliver of time, its unbeatable.
Fair enough. Are there any other audio interfaces around the same pricepoint that you much prefer? Ive been lookign to get into thunderbolt (getting a pcie card), and the Apollo twin looked nice, but doesnt quite have the i/o that i need/want.

Might end up still going with the Discreete 4 and wait for the thunderbolt drivers.

But still hopefully there will be someone in this forum that might have a 8720X in their system who can help out with a benchmark potentially!

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

02 Jan 2018

Protostar wrote:
02 Jan 2018
Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
They told me sometime in the summer, which could mean never. I'm likely returning the unit but giving them a bit of time since Sweetwater specifically told me I could wait beyond the 30 days since they haven't released the mics or anything.

As for systems, I have 4 fairly beefy systems here, I tend to build one every couple of years with minor upgrades as we go. I never benchmark anything, I've been building them for 20 years so I tend to be more mundane about it and know what to expect. Unless you're talking pure CPU power which I did in that benchmark thread just for kicks.

I built my newest system as an offline DAW with specific requirements like 4k, silent, cool, thunderbolt, couple others (which is why I chose some "incompatible components' most builders would be afraid to attempt). At its price point in its sliver of time, its unbeatable.
Fair enough. Are there any other audio interfaces around the same pricepoint that you much prefer? Ive been lookign to get into thunderbolt (getting a pcie card), and the Apollo twin looked nice, but doesnt quite have the i/o that i need/want.

Might end up still going with the Discreete 4 and wait for the thunderbolt drivers.

But still hopefully there will be someone in this forum that might have a 8720X in their system who can help out with a benchmark potentially!
The Audio Interface was one of the other requirements -- build a DAW without specifically needing a PCIe slot for the 1616m. Man nothing beat the 1616m for the 10+ years I've had them, still one of the best interfaces out there today, I have 3 of them! I used it specifically for the RTL and pres, and up until the Discreet, nothing else got me excited in the <$1500 range.

Regardless, I do like the Discreet, but can't shake the feeling it's going to be a bust. Hope I'm wrong, one of the few times I've early adopted - the only interface I felt might fit the bill in the last 10 years of looking.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

02 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
The Audio Interface was one of the other requirements -- build a DAW without specifically needing a PCIe slot for the 1616m. Man nothing beat the 1616m for the 10+ years I've had them, still one of the best interfaces out there today, I have 3 of them! I used it specifically for the RTL and pres, and up until the Discreet, nothing else got me excited in the <$1500 range.

Regardless, I do like the Discreet, but shake the feeling it's going to be a bust. Hope I'm wrong, one of the few times I've early adopted - the only interface I felt might fit the bill in the last 10 years of looking.
Oh man ive actually used one of those way back when i did Music Tech in school for A-levels haha!
Do they really add much in the way of performance? I know it would be hard to compare that to the 4 in its current state (only USB on windows), but im curious as your benchmark result with that test file was pretty insane haha. My friend has a 8700k too and its overclocked and can only get about 32 seconds into the file.

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

02 Jan 2018

Protostar wrote:
02 Jan 2018
Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
The Audio Interface was one of the other requirements -- build a DAW without specifically needing a PCIe slot for the 1616m. Man nothing beat the 1616m for the 10+ years I've had them, still one of the best interfaces out there today, I have 3 of them! I used it specifically for the RTL and pres, and up until the Discreet, nothing else got me excited in the <$1500 range.

Regardless, I do like the Discreet, but shake the feeling it's going to be a bust. Hope I'm wrong, one of the few times I've early adopted - the only interface I felt might fit the bill in the last 10 years of looking.
Oh man ive actually used one of those way back when i did Music Tech in school for A-levels haha!
Do they really add much in the way of performance? I know it would be hard to compare that to the 4 in its current state (only USB on windows), but im curious as your benchmark result with that test file was pretty insane haha. My friend has a 8700k too and its overclocked and can only get about 32 seconds into the file.
British! Spent 4 years there in the AirForce, wife is from there little town outside Bicester.

The reasons I love the 1616m is the genuinely clean pres, crazy low snr, and Ethernet EDI interface to the PCIe card for minimal RTL. Plus I have one on my laptop (via the EDI to PCMCIA which again is killer rtl) I use for vocal recordings, and one on my desktop - both interchangeable should something happen (which is why I bought a 3rd last year).

I can't speak for your friend, however when I built this system I did a typical month-long research of parts, to come up with the whole, and have been doing that sort of thing for a long time. I'm sure the interface makes a difference, however not much as that benchmark is testing primarily the CPU.

You're welcome to copy it, here's the link to the parts: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fbVYVY

Its unconventional, mid tower with micro mb for airflow, SFX power supply in mid tower for cooling (I replaced the short atx24 power cable with a longer one), reversed cpu fan on the heatsink, m.2 slot for apps not boot, few other things specific to how I wanted this build done. If you need any help let me know.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

02 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
British! Spent 4 years there in the AirForce, wife is from there little town outside Bicester.

The reasons I love the 1616m is the genuinely clean pres, crazy low snr, and Ethernet EDI interface to the PCIe card for minimal RTL. Plus I have one on my laptop (via the EDI to PCMCIA which again is killer rtl) I use for vocal recordings, and one on my desktop - both interchangeable should something happen (which is why I bought a 3rd last year).

I can't speak for your friend, however when I built this system I did a typical month-long research of parts, to come up with the whole, and have been doing that sort of thing for a long time. I'm sure the interface makes a difference, however not much as that benchmark is testing primarily the CPU.

You're welcome to copy it, here's the link to the parts: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fbVYVY

Its unconventional, mid tower with micro mb for airflow, SFX power supply in mid tower for cooling (I replaced the short atx24 power cable with a longer one), reversed cpu fan on the heatsink, m.2 slot for apps not boot, few other things specific to how I wanted this build done. If you need any help let me know.
My current rig is listed here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FmKVtJ
It's not a weak machine by any means, just only that its currently running 4 core. Main decision has to be wether i want to go with the 7820X over the 8700k, and im just trying to see how much of an improvement over the 8700k the X299 system would be.

Would you potentially be able to run that benchmark file again for me, but using windows DX Primary Sound Driver @ 4032 samples?
That way i could have a direct measure against your performance and be able to potentially get someone to run said benchmark on their machine using same to get a relative performance difference using that!

And fair enough, i may hold off on upgrading audio interface until i swap out my mobo + cpu first to see.

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

02 Jan 2018

Protostar wrote:
02 Jan 2018
Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
British! Spent 4 years there in the AirForce, wife is from there little town outside Bicester.

The reasons I love the 1616m is the genuinely clean pres, crazy low snr, and Ethernet EDI interface to the PCIe card for minimal RTL. Plus I have one on my laptop (via the EDI to PCMCIA which again is killer rtl) I use for vocal recordings, and one on my desktop - both interchangeable should something happen (which is why I bought a 3rd last year).

I can't speak for your friend, however when I built this system I did a typical month-long research of parts, to come up with the whole, and have been doing that sort of thing for a long time. I'm sure the interface makes a difference, however not much as that benchmark is testing primarily the CPU.

You're welcome to copy it, here's the link to the parts: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fbVYVY

Its unconventional, mid tower with micro mb for airflow, SFX power supply in mid tower for cooling (I replaced the short atx24 power cable with a longer one), reversed cpu fan on the heatsink, m.2 slot for apps not boot, few other things specific to how I wanted this build done. If you need any help let me know.
My current rig is listed here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FmKVtJ
It's not a weak machine by any means, just only that its currently running 4 core. Main decision has to be wether i want to go with the 7820X over the 8700k, and im just trying to see how much of an improvement over the 8700k the X299 system would be.

Would you potentially be able to run that benchmark file again for me, but using windows DX Primary Sound Driver @ 4032 samples?
That way i could have a direct measure against your performance and be able to potentially get someone to run said benchmark on their machine using same to get a relative performance difference using that!

And fair enough, i may hold off on upgrading audio interface until i swap out my mobo + cpu first to see.
Is there a reason you don't use ASIO? With my win7 machine, I was able to use the native emu asio driver, but can always do asio4all if you can't get it to work.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

02 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
Protostar wrote:
02 Jan 2018


My current rig is listed here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FmKVtJ
It's not a weak machine by any means, just only that its currently running 4 core. Main decision has to be wether i want to go with the 7820X over the 8700k, and im just trying to see how much of an improvement over the 8700k the X299 system would be.

Would you potentially be able to run that benchmark file again for me, but using windows DX Primary Sound Driver @ 4032 samples?
That way i could have a direct measure against your performance and be able to potentially get someone to run said benchmark on their machine using same to get a relative performance difference using that!

And fair enough, i may hold off on upgrading audio interface until i swap out my mobo + cpu first to see.
Is there a reason you don't use ASIO? With my win7 machine, I was able to use the native emu asio driver, but can always do asio4all if you can't get it to work.
I do use asio of course i was just saying to use direct driver to even out the variables as to not have audio interfaces necessarily in the equation, makes it easier to see direct comparisons!

Asio4all would be good but that also utilises your audio interface, which is an element i was trying to negate as using direct driver would better show raw system performance!

Steedus
Competition Winner
Posts: 1009
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne, AU

02 Jan 2018

I tried one, but didn't find enough of an improvement to justify it so I returned it. But because it was attached to a computer with a gaming graphics card the friendly people here just told me I'm an ignorant fool who doesn't know what he's doing, so maybe you'll have better results.

User avatar
Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

02 Jan 2018

Steedus wrote:
02 Jan 2018
I tried one, but didn't find enough of an improvement to justify it so I returned it. But because it was attached to a computer with a gaming graphics card the friendly people here just told me I'm an ignorant fool who doesn't know what he's doing, so maybe you'll have better results.
Hmm, what were you upgrading from?? Also what did you switch back to after, thats interesting to hear, it might help me decide and go for the 8700k if reason doesnt see much of a diff.

User avatar
Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

02 Jan 2018

Steedus wrote:
02 Jan 2018
I tried one, but didn't find enough of an improvement to justify it so I returned it. But because it was attached to a computer with a gaming graphics card the friendly people here just told me I'm an ignorant fool who doesn't know what he's doing, so maybe you'll have better results.
The only significant negative affect a gaming graphics card will have is noise, which only matters if you live record with that PC, or very quiet monitoring. Yet you'll benefit greatly from how the system responds while producing audio, specifically when running at 120hz or 144hz with all the acceleration -night and day compared to a max of 60hz on-board. My 1 PCIe slot was specifically needed for the day 4k gets 120+hz. For now I can work with the sluggy 60hz.

What did you try btw? A new processor?
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

User avatar
Protostar
Posts: 27
Joined: 02 Apr 2017

04 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
02 Jan 2018
Steedus wrote:
02 Jan 2018
I tried one, but didn't find enough of an improvement to justify it so I returned it. But because it was attached to a computer with a gaming graphics card the friendly people here just told me I'm an ignorant fool who doesn't know what he's doing, so maybe you'll have better results.
The only significant negative affect a gaming graphics card will have is noise, which only matters if you live record with that PC, or very quiet monitoring. Yet you'll benefit greatly from how the system responds while producing audio, specifically when running at 120hz or 144hz with all the acceleration -night and day compared to a max of 60hz on-board. My 1 PCIe slot was specifically needed for the day 4k gets 120+hz. For now I can work with the sluggy 60hz.

What did you try btw? A new processor?
I think he meant he tried the 7820X.

Also, in regards to CPU, ive decided to bite the bullet and grab an i9 7900X, ill update on the benchmark thread with results once done!

Przemyslaw
Posts: 81
Joined: 05 Jan 2018

05 Jan 2018

I was in the same situation, looking for Reason performance on x299 chipset, and had a look on song stress thread 8700k too ! Now I'm building new setup and decide to use 7820x CPU, collecting parts and will make whole platform in a week I suppose. Upgrade from 4790k @4,7. Will show results in song stress benchmark thread.

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