Mastering devices connected to mastering insert fx or master out ?

[Voyager]

I use -12 dBFS peaks for individual tracks, and -6 dBFS for a mix, and -1 dBFS for masters.

ok, since i make only singles i usually brick wall most of my tracks and get the ceiling at 0.2db. Do you see anything wrong with it ? I'm asking because if you set -1dbfs for master i guess you may have a good reason to

Not sure I understand the question 100%, but I feel I get better results by using a little dynamic reduction in multiple stages rather than all at once at the end.

I mean in the mastering stage the more you're limiting ( brick wall ) the lower the crest factor you get and i though we may compensate this way too.

[selig]

I use -12 dBFS peaks for individual tracks, and -6 dBFS for a mix, and -1 dBFS for masters.

ok, since i make only singles i usually brick wall most of my tracks and get the ceiling at 0.2db. Do you see anything wrong with it ? I'm asking because if you set -1dbfs for master i guess you may have a good reason to

Not sure I understand the question 100%, but I feel I get better results by using a little dynamic reduction in multiple stages rather than all at once at the end.

I mean in the mastering stage the more you're limiting ( brick wall ) the lower the crest factor you get and i though we may compensate this way too.

I don't think anyone would notice the 0.8 dB difference, and it offers a little protection from different D/As and inter-sample peaks (though some would say you need as much as 3 dB or so to cover every possible case). If clipping didn't matter, I'd leave it at 0 dB (for industrial tracks and noise projects, for example), and for acoustic music I've done 1.5 to 2 dB headroom.

Sometimes I go with 0.5 dB headroom on louder projects. I'm not being overly scientific with these numbers, just making a choice and sticking with it - again a dB isn't going to make or break a project, so I err on the side of caution!

As for your second question, the harder you drive any single compressor, the more it will color the sound. Each device is different, some can take a lot of reduction before you hear it. But I can hear degradation starting between 3-6 dB gain reduction on many devices. But because I'm doing a little bit at many different stages (individual, bus, mix, master) I don't end up needing more than 2-4 dB GR on the master for 90% of my work, and I'm typically shooting for a crest factor of around 12 dB.

Another factor is I don't want to change the mix with my mastering, I just want to "tame" it a bit. Sometimes I hardly need any limiting at all, which is fine with me - the goal is a target loudness, and I use crest factor to judge this. That means if I'm already at the target with the mix, there's no need to push it further with mastering.

I'm not saying anyone should do what I do, I'm just offering my way of working as a choice - I always suggest folks try different techniques and choose the one you like best!

[Voyager]

I always appreciate the time you take to clarify and explain all those things, thank you.

Last note, what do GR means ?

[selig]

I always appreciate the time you take to clarify and explain all those things, thank you.

Last note, what do GR means ?

GR is short for Gain Reduction, but it’s also my initials (but I meant gain reduction…).


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[Reasonable man]

Very educational thread. Thanks to Selig and all the experienced guys here for sharing this knowledge . Minnions like me appreciate it!

[househoppin09]

Yeah, absolutely. This is one of the better threads on this subject I've seen anywhere, thanks!

[Voyager]

GR is short for Gain Reduction, but it’s also my initials (but I meant gain reduction…).

Nice ! thanks again for such valuable informations.

[Voyager]

Now that i'm thinking of and aside the different decreasing crest factor techniques that may somehow color the sound in a way or another, does Selig Leveller is the perfect tool for decreasing crest factor when we want to keep the sound as transparent as possible ?

[selig]

Now that i'm thinking of and aside the different decreasing crest factor techniques that may somehow color the sound in a way or another, does Selig Leveller is the perfect tool for decreasing crest factor when we want to keep the sound as transparent as possible ?

In some cases, yes, but there is no “silver bullet” with this sort of thing.

In some cases it’s better to reduce the transients via saturation or similar, in some cases lifting the mid levels ala Leveler gives better results.

Remember that very short term saturation, such as on extreme transients, is not perceived as “distortion”. If the effect lasts less than a few milliseconds, we don’t actually hear it as saturation or distortion. So you can get away with a little bit of peak saturation and still sound “transparent”.

For really tough jobs a combination of different processes often works best, where no one tool is doing much work on it’s own.

As as always, there’s only so far your can go before you hear the “process” over the original sound. Just like there’s no “silver bullet”, there is also no “free lunch”!



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[Voyager]

I don't own Leveller yet but i may pull the trigger very soon, i can see good use of it. As you said some things may work better than others in some scenario and it's always good to have various tools to try and see what work best in a specific case.

You said you go for a crest factor of ~12db for the entire mix but do you apply the same (~12db) rule for each individual track as well ?

I use -12 dBFS peaks for individual tracks, and -6 dBFS for a mix, and -1 dBFS for masters.

Now that i'm reading this again, you keep -12dbfs peaks for individual tracks, but do you keep a certain crest factor "rule" range as you do for your global mix or you have a different crest factor approach/setting for individual tracks ?

[selig]

I don't own Leveller yet but i may pull the trigger very soon, i can see good use of it. As you said some things may work better than others in some scenario and it's always good to have various tools to try and see what work best in a specific case.

You said you go for a crest factor of ~12db for the entire mix but do you apply the same (~12db) rule for each individual track as well ?

I use -12 dBFS peaks for individual tracks, and -6 dBFS for a mix, and -1 dBFS for masters.

Now that i'm reading this again, you keep -12dbfs peaks for individual tracks, but do you keep a certain crest factor "rule" range as you do for your global mix or you have a different crest factor approach/setting for individual tracks ?

I don’t have a crest factor for tracks, but if I’m mixing and not hearing a track in a dense mix, there’s either EQ to find the range with the most energy that cuts through in the mix, or decreasing crest factor (or often a little of both).

In general, I start with less, and only add more if needed, meaning if always get the very best mix I can get by adjusting faders first. Then I “fix” things like low rumble, or noise. Then I might turn to gentle EQ or compression or FX. Finally when all else fails I turn to more brute force techniques. All in the name of trying to use as little as possible of any process to achieve the end result because in my experience it always sounds better that way (and it’s less work in many respects, though some may say it’s a lot of work getting a mix to sound good with no EQ/FX/Dynamics!).


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[Voyager]

Totally agree, i recently thought a lot about my music and how i get things from a point to another and as deduction i came across this : Less is more !