Making Music

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

31 Dec 2017

Just a thread to comment on the fact I seem to spend more time twiddling knobs than getting any music made.
Not blaming Reason (or any other DAW) just seems to me that I start out working out some fundamentals for a song and before long, I'm elbow deep in trying different reverb variations, or compressor settings.
One of the reasons (no pun intended) that I stayed with Reason as my primary DAW was the simplicity, for a long time I saw it as the note pad of DAWs because it was so very quick to get started and easy enough to understand.
These days transferring a song over to different software is difficult if it works at all, because so many of my tunes have become dependent on certain effects/sounds that really can't be duplicated in another DAW.
Anyone else find this is the case?

Life was simpler with just an acoustic guitar =/

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MannequinRaces
Posts: 1543
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

31 Dec 2017

Agree wholeheartedly that life was much simpler with an acoustic guitar. When I was younger I wrote everything on guitar. That is why in 2018 I'll be turning to that again to actually complete some songs!! :) The One EP Synth thread has been inspirational though and I'm also working on a Legend centric EP. With that in mind consider implementing some limitations in your workflow to help curb the 'too many choices' problem. And consider it a very good thing that you can't reproduce sounds you make in Reason in other DAWs, that's the beauty of Reason!

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ravisoni
Posts: 419
Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Las Vegas

31 Dec 2017

I am not much of a knob person, but with EQ and other FX, I find myself in the same place as you. My new approach is to leave the FX solely for the mixing stage, no matter how raw the sound sounds during composing. It's helped me stay more focused, and I'm actually finishing songs now.
:reason: Reason 12 | :re: Preset Browser | :refill: Refill Hoarder

wils
Posts: 44
Joined: 04 Dec 2017

01 Jan 2018

I'm the same. I find the texture of sounds to be as important as the melody, so I start off with one idea, fiddle with an effect, and it goes off in another direction. Seems a lot of what I do is dependent on the effects.

That's one of the reasons I use Reason. I had a PC crash, hard drives crash, and each time I've had to reinstall VSTs, DAWs, instruments. It's massively frustrating opening an eight year old song to be hit with multiple "VST xxx cannot be found" popups, knowing you're going to get that *every* time you open a song until you've reinstalled all the plugins again).

I don't get that with Reason (I don't own any RE's or refills, so everything I do in Reason will work straight out of the box, first time every time even if my entire PC dies and I have to buy a new one and reinstall Reason again).

In fact I intend to never buy a single add on, and see if I cant do everything with just what comes in the box. Let's see how that challenge goes.

PS is there a term for someone who just uses "vanilla" Reason? Don't say "idiots"

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motuscott
Posts: 3420
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Location: Contest Weiner

01 Jan 2018

wils wrote:
01 Jan 2018
PS is there a term for someone who just uses "vanilla" Reason? Don't say "idiots"
Genius, I believe is the word you're searching for.
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

01 Jan 2018

wils wrote:
01 Jan 2018
I'm the same. I find the texture of sounds to be as important as the melody, so I start off with one idea, fiddle with an effect, and it goes off in another direction. Seems a lot of what I do is dependent on the effects.

That's one of the reasons I use Reason. I had a PC crash, hard drives crash, and each time I've had to reinstall VSTs, DAWs, instruments. It's massively frustrating opening an eight year old song to be hit with multiple "VST xxx cannot be found" popups, knowing you're going to get that *every* time you open a song until you've reinstalled all the plugins again).

I don't get that with Reason (I don't own any RE's or refills, so everything I do in Reason will work straight out of the box, first time every time even if my entire PC dies and I have to buy a new one and reinstall Reason again).

In fact I intend to never buy a single add on, and see if I cant do everything with just what comes in the box. Let's see how that challenge goes.

PS is there a term for someone who just uses "vanilla" Reason? Don't say "idiots"
Yep I know what you mean about having to reinstall everything, and even if you own refills Reason lets you save everything you used in a song in a compact file.

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QVprod
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01 Jan 2018

The problem is experimentation/finalizing and songwriting need to be treated as 2 separate things. When you're writing a song, write the song. You can tweak later. Play with reverb and compression when you're done writing it. It's more important to get the notes/performance recorded when you want to get music done.

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Data_Shrine
Posts: 517
Joined: 23 Jan 2015

01 Jan 2018

To be able to write music to completion, we need some sort of discipline. We need to stop merging writing & mixing.
First write the song, OCD tweaks comes later only when the whole track is finished (in terms of beginning to end). When the basics are done, we can do some layering.. well anyway that's what I do. And then at some point, after reaching a peak, we have to let the song rest for a day or two before mixing.

There is a diminished-return point that will be reached, and you need to recognize it. I think after that we can't make the song any better anymore... we just lose time tweaking and sometimes just making it worse. If we want it to be better, we need to make a new track ! And that's a good way to keep moving forward, and ultimately finish an EP or album.

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CaliforniaBurrito
Posts: 574
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Location: San Diego, CA
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01 Jan 2018

33db wrote:
31 Dec 2017
Anyone else find this is the case?
Like having a whole rack for a kick drum? :lol: Yes I know what you mean.



Finished track 8 hours later. :D

Last edited by CaliforniaBurrito on 02 Jan 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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aeox
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Location: Oregon

01 Jan 2018

CaliforniaBurrito wrote:
01 Jan 2018
Image

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raymondh
Posts: 1776
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

01 Jan 2018

If you are having fun just playing around with sound design, mixing etc, there is nothing wrong with that. It's all about the enjoyment right?

But if you want to finish tracks, then I think you have to treat your music as if it is a business. A finished track is the "product".
When you take that mental attitude, then Reason and all the plug-ins etc quickly fall into their place as tools. Creative tools, but they're still tools.
Set yourself a deadline for finishing a track and work backwards from there. Have some sort of reward for yourself if you achieve that deadline.

I think the other attitude thing is to understand that a track is never finished, it is abandoned :) "Good enough" isn't a cop-out, it is a subjective assessment. No different from anything else really.

Then if you finish a track, then post it online, and someone says something nasty about your work, just ask them how many tracks they've finished and posted online? :)

All the best for a musically productive 2018!

strangers
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Posts: 793
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Location: NJ

01 Jan 2018

raymondh wrote:
01 Jan 2018
...Set yourself a deadline for finishing a track and work backwards from there. Have some sort of reward for yourself if you achieve that deadline.
This is what I recently began doing to counter the endless knob fiddling. I've participated in a few song challenges and deadlines for other things. Those deadlines made me realize I'm much more productive and decisive under the gun. It's funny it took me so long to realize that since I was the same way in school when it came to freedom vs deadlines.

The only part I can't shake is the endless ideas flowing through my head. Nothing worse than working on a song and you end up scrapping a section that you begin to turn into its own song. A few years ago I tried to stop saving song ideas to a flash drive since I titled them with the date I wrote the idea. It was a nightmare to filter through. Fast forward to current day and I've been cheating by recording song ideas on my phone and keep a separate song idea folder on my laptop. 131 phone demos and 78 laptop demos later... Anyone have time to spare? :lol:

keysperson
Posts: 13
Joined: 04 Dec 2017

01 Jan 2018

I think its how you allocate your time. I love tinkering but I'm only willing to give it say 1/2 an hour. Next Say I have imported a midi drum file and now I want to write another instrument to go with it so I copy the same midifile, with the intention of erasing enough to where I only have one part I will keep and that will become the monosynth part or bass part. If I want to put on some effects I might have to altrack it again raising some portions of the musical line up to make space where I want my effects to be. What I would like is instead of just finding resources that are say an entire verse. I would like to be able to bind or join together only the parts based on the notes I selected and save that as a scratch pad. Can I do that in reason. I tried joining the parts but I don't think that is what I am saying. Anyways I hope I'm understandable. Thanks in advance.

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aeox
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Posts: 3222
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

01 Jan 2018

Twist those knobs until your fingers bleed (virtual fingers) :twisted:

Sometimes I'll start a project up just to try different ways of processing a synth. Other times I'll open a project and write chord progressions with raw sawtooth waves or maybe piano just to have them for later. Who knows? It's all going to either be used at a later time, or would be a learning experience regardless.

I don't think any time is wasted by twiddling knobs. You're experimenting and without that in our nature, we wouldn't be where we are as species. :puf_smile:

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NekujaK
Posts: 631
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02 Jan 2018

Goofing around with knobs and devices is perfectly fine, as long as your expectations are set accordingly. I have folders full of Reason song files that are just 4 or 8 bars long, or others that are simply melody ideas or chord progressions. I'll probably never revisit them again, and that's fine. Just the process of creating those files often opens my mind to new techniques or possiblities that I can apply to future compositions.

Sometimes goofing around will lead to a finished song, but it's a hit and miss proposition. Usually miss. Composing a finished piece typically involves dedicated focused effort, and depending on how inspired you are, can flow easily or require a fair amount of hard work.

Everybody's process is different, but for me, if I'm serious about writing a song, I'll go pick up my guitar or compose in Reason using just a piano patch. Only after the idea is fully realized from start to finish, will I start arrangng parts and assigning sounds and FX.

The easiest and quickest way for me to get to a finished song is by trying to mimmick another track, loosely emulating the instrumentation, arrangement, and chords. So when a client needs an original piece of music, I always ask them to provide a reference track that approximates what they want. After that, the rest is relatively easy.
wreaking havoc with :reason: since 2.5
:arrow: https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets

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TritoneAddiction
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Posts: 4219
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

02 Jan 2018

I actually do everything simultaneously when I work on my music, song writing, arranging, mixing, tweak knobs, pick the right sounds. It all becomes a blur but somehow it seems to work for me. It's whatever gives me a vibe or something I find interesting. That could be the note choices/melody, a reverb wash, a compressor setting, a cool distortion sound, the order the different parts come in. It doesn't matter.

Many times picking the right sounds is just as important as the melody itself imo. I think it's totally fine to nerd around with compressor settings on a drum beat or screw around with EQ settings if that's what gives the song a nice vibe in the first place.

I find the more melodic a piece of music is the simpler the sounds usually have to be in order to work and vice versa.

I really don't believe in any "you should do this first and then that later" rules. According to many "rules" I'm doing many things wrong. Who cares? Experiment away and do whatever works for you.

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CaliforniaBurrito
Posts: 574
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Location: San Diego, CA
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02 Jan 2018

aeox wrote:
01 Jan 2018
Twist those knobs until your fingers bleed (virtual fingers) :twisted:
This is the way of enlightenment. :lightbulb: Have some fun and try to make something worthwhile.

wils
Posts: 44
Joined: 04 Dec 2017

02 Jan 2018

I think there are (at least) two different scenarios at work -

1. You're doing this for fun. You do what the hell you want (and there must be loads of us who have eight thousand 1- or 2 bar "songs"in their folders). You're doing it for yourself, so the end result is less important than the journey.
2. You do this for a job. You do what the hell you have to do to get over the deadline. The end result is all that matters to your consumer, not how long you spent twiddling the reverb or auditioning slightly different bass sounds. Discipline is probably extremely important for the vast majority of people in this boat, I'd think. If you're lucky enough to be doing this for money AND you can just twiddle AND you get a consistent end product, on time, at the end, you're a God. A God, I tell thee.

33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

02 Jan 2018

wils wrote:
02 Jan 2018
I think there are (at least) two different scenarios at work -
I get what you're saying, my point is that I have a song idea, and that the idea can become lost during the "tweaking" process.
I feel, regardless of why you're doing music, keeping it simple as you write the song is best, the curse of the digital musician is that we have so many instruments and effects at our disposal we tend to get distracted or go nuts (see kick drum rack or combinator with 30 Thors in it).

Try sitting down at an acoustic piano.... there's no buttons... literally the only thing you can do is play music, now compare that to sitting down in front of Reason.

For me, there is a shelf life to a beat or melody in my head, and the ideas usually come up when I'm taking a walk... so much so I started carrying around a portable recorder so I could try to capture melodies and beats.
Getting caught up in knob diddling can dissolve a good idea (again this is just what happens with me).

I agree with the post that experimenting and playing around are where good ideas can come from, or at least a better understanding of the gear you're using, but there's a time for that, and a time for more serious song creation.

Workflow is subjective, mine favors simplicity.

wils
Posts: 44
Joined: 04 Dec 2017

02 Jan 2018

33db wrote:
02 Jan 2018


Try sitting down at an acoustic piano.... there's no buttons... literally the only thing you can do is play music, now compare that to sitting down in front of Reason.

Oh I don't know about that - someone could spend an hour listening to various degrees of the sustain/damp pedals :P

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ejanuska
Posts: 680
Joined: 27 May 2016
Location: USA

02 Jan 2018

I catch myself all the time over tweaking on shit nobody will even notice.
I give myself a reality check and move on.

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mbfrancis
Posts: 647
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Location: Orange County, CA
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02 Jan 2018

I agree with what everyone has said. Separate writing from mixing. I'd also add "have a purpose." Don't just f^&k around...always sit down with a purpose, an objective. What are your musical goals and how does what you're doing fit. What are you working on? Easier said than done, though, ha - I have dozens of great (ok, good maybe) loops and ideas that languish on my hard drive. Last night I did two more.

I found this keynote address by Jack Conte (Pomplamoose, Patreon founder) to be inspirational..."work to publish." You will laugh recognizing yourself. FYI the title (getting fans) has nothing to do with the talk.

http://cdbabypodcast.com/2017/04/184-ja ... -get-fans/
Producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist. I make indie pop as Port Streets, 90s/shoegaze as Swooner, and Electro as Yours Mine.

33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

02 Jan 2018

wils wrote:
02 Jan 2018
Oh I don't know about that - someone could spend an hour listening to various degrees of the sustain/damp pedals :P
OK now i have to ask, are acoustic piano pedals incremental or "on and off" set ups?
I always pushed pedals all the way down when using them but then I learned what little keyboarding skills I have on a synth.

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MusicianX
Posts: 61
Joined: 15 Jul 2016

02 Jan 2018

I thought I was the only one who had this problem. Over the last few days I've dumped multiple vst synths and effects to try and limit the my amount of choices. As someone said early i think separating the creative process from mixing and sound design could be a really good way to get out of this habit.

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ejanuska
Posts: 680
Joined: 27 May 2016
Location: USA

03 Jan 2018

If I want to write a song, one with lyrics, chorus, verse and all that, the last thing I would do is fire up Reason. It's too easy to get distracted. I'll find myself thinking "I think I'll tweak that sound a little.." a half an hour later, if I still have that song idea in my head maybe I can get something done.
So for me the best option is to pick up the acoustic guitar and a notebook (think paper not laptop). Then I finish the song that way. Keep it simple because it will always get more complex later without much effort.
To record an idea I have a song template for a simple two mic setup and a ReDrum just hitting a snare and a kick. Quickly position the mics, set the tempo and hit record. The draft tracks are great since you can cut them up and re-arrange in the sequencer if needed.
Don't forget to silence your cell phone.

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