New stock devices using repatch extensions and icons.

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Namyo85
Posts: 168
Joined: 11 Mar 2017

16 Dec 2017

It makes no sense that the latest stock devices in Reason: Europa, Grain, Klang, Humana etc have .repatch extensions and icons. This does not help organisation of patches and makes them look like 3rd party rack extensions. How about .eur for Europa, .grn for Grain, I'm hoping this changes in the future. Look at the files for Subtractor, Thor, Kong, The Echo for example, and all the earlier devices before Reason 8/9, they all have their own file extensions and icons. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

EdGrip
Posts: 1250
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

16 Dec 2017

My experience of using Reason's browser is that if you're not saving patches in logical folders in logical locations, you're asking for trouble. The browser seems to have a way of not encouraging good housekeeping.

Folder structure like
D:\ > My Reason Patches > Synth Patches > Grain Patches > Pads
will help hugely in the long run.

You can also note the device and type in the patch name, like GRpadLonelyVessels or EUbassGwaarrr, just in case it crops up in a "recent files" list or something out of context like that.

Try to avoid having a big folder called "Messing About Within Reason" that's full of song files and patches and samples and other mixed floor sweepings. Take it from one who knows.

househoppin09
Posts: 533
Joined: 03 Aug 2016

17 Dec 2017

Seconding all of that. A little basic organization goes a long way and pays back the time and effort investment many times over.

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Namyo85
Posts: 168
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18 Dec 2017

I have folders with the names of the devices for patches, i.e. Thor patches patches go in a folder called Thor. Also songs go in Songs folder etc... I've always been organised, however, as for new synths / effects etc getting the .repatch extension which should be reserved for non-stock devices, I think is lazy and not professional. Why break convention? All Reason stock devices prior to 10 have their own file extension and icon. Why stop doing this now? I've also found out the Softube devices are also repatch.
Last edited by Namyo85 on 19 Dec 2017, edited 1 time in total.

househoppin09
Posts: 533
Joined: 03 Aug 2016

18 Dec 2017

Well the Softube devices were originally sold as REs, so that makes good sense. The Propellerhead devices that use repatch extensions and icons do so because, under the hood, they actually are REs. There's no technical difference between them and a Propellerhead RE that you'd buy in the shop, they just happen to be bundled with Reason. The Props have been developing their devices that way pretty much ever since the RE format came out.

WongoTheSane
Posts: 1459
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Location: Paris, France

18 Dec 2017

Namyo85 wrote:
18 Dec 2017
I have folders with the names of the devices for patches, i.e. Thor patches patches go in a folder called Thor. Also songs go in Songs folder etc... I've always been organised, however, as for new synths / effects etc getting the .repatch extension which should be reserved for non-stock devices, I think is stupid, lazy and not professional. Why break convention? All Reason stock devices prior to 10 have their own file extension and icon. Why stop doing this now? I've also found out the Softube devices are also repatch.
Actually, it's quite smart, but you have to think backwards to understand.

All devices post 6.5 have the .repatch extension, it's not a R10 thing.

Currently, if Reason isn't open and you double-click a .repatch file, it will launch Reason (and load the corresponding RE or show the placeholder cardboard). If Reason is already open, it will add the device to the rack.

Imagine each RE had a different extension. If you double-clicked a file with a ".sftub" extension for instance, and you didn't have that extension, Reason wouldn't launch, and you wouldn't know what program it was intended for. So, when they introduced REs, they had to create an universal extension so that Reason would launch/load the device no matter what. It's the only way for the "You don't have this RE, click to see it the shop" mechanism to work.

In case you're wondering why they don't simply register all possible extensions, like they did for .thor and the rest: because if they did, and a new extension was published, you would have to wait for the next Reason update to have it register that new extension with your OS, and the launching wouldn't work until then. That was possible when the number of extensions was limited and the names were known, but that's not the case anymore, so they can't do it that way anymore (there are new RE developers quite often).

Another advantage is that the .repatch files are xml files, and having a single extension enables easy batch processing. Granted, batch processing isn't an everyday task for most users, but it's an advantage nonetheless :)

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Namyo85
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19 Dec 2017

WongoTheSane wrote:
18 Dec 2017
Imagine each RE had a different extension. If you double-clicked a file with a ".sftub" extension for instance, and you didn't have that extension, Reason wouldn't launch, and you wouldn't know what program it was intended for. So, when they introduced REs, they had to create an universal extension so that Reason would launch/load the device no matter what. It's the only way for the "You don't have this RE, click to see it the shop" mechanism to work.
With all due respect that's a poor argument. Don't forget the files also have icons as well as extensions which gives an additional clue as to what the device is, also some devices are named after the device, .'thor' for example, isn't difficult to work out what that is. Some of the devices have an extension that isn't the letters of the device for example Malstrom .xwv, however, the big 'm' and green backround on the icon kind of tells you what that belongs to! ) Subtractor with .zyp is a little less obvious and it doesn't have an 's' on the icon but the colour and picture does help. It wouldn't take long to learn what devices these icons belonged to either, especially the ones that say what it is is in the extension. :cool:

Also consider this: If you had a folder full of repatch files and you didn't know what device they were for, which you wouldn't, (unless one included the name of the device in the saved file - which isn't an ideal solution) you would have to go through all of them one at a time! Reason would have to open in order to find out what device it belongs to.
If you had a folder full of files with different extensions and icons eg. .cmb .rv7. thor .kong, you would only need to click on one out of the groups of these files, and as you say, Reason wouldn't open therefore making it a lot quicker to work out if you have the device or not. Much more efficient than a folder full of .repatch files!

Where you say about introducing re's, that's rack extensions by 3rd parties, I'm not expecting them to have their own extension, that would be asking a lot and would be complicated. I'm talking about the Reason stock devices.

I don't think there is any excuse for Reasons own devices not to have their own file extension and icon. It's beneficial, not at all detrimental.

How about .eur .grn .rad .sync .klg .hum .png .soft - guess the devices these could be used for.

WongoTheSane
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19 Dec 2017

Namyo85 wrote:
19 Dec 2017
WongoTheSane wrote:
18 Dec 2017
Imagine each RE had a different extension. If you double-clicked a file with a ".sftub" extension for instance, and you didn't have that extension, Reason wouldn't launch, and you wouldn't know what program it was intended for. So, when they introduced REs, they had to create an universal extension so that Reason would launch/load the device no matter what. It's the only way for the "You don't have this RE, click to see it the shop" mechanism to work.
With all due respect that's a poor argument. Don't forget the files also have icons as well as extensions which gives an additional clue as to what the device is, also some devices are named after the device, .'thor' for example, isn't difficult to work out what that is. Some of the devices have an extension that isn't the letters of the device for example Malstrom .xwv, however, the big 'm' and green backround on the icon kind of tells you what that belongs to! ) Subtractor with .zyp is a little less obvious and it doesn't have an 's' on the icon but the colour and picture does help. It wouldn't take long to learn what devices these icons belonged to either, especially the ones that say what it is is in the extension. :cool:
You're forgetting one small detail: in order to register for an extension and the associated icon, there has to be an installer (at least on Windows). REs aren't installed by the OS, so it's a no-go (unless they decided to register them on the fly, which I think will never happen, because there are about 8192 items above that one on their to-do list).
Namyo85 wrote:
19 Dec 2017
Also consider this: If you had a folder full of repatch files and you didn't know what device they were for, which you wouldn't, (unless one included the name of the device in the saved file - which isn't an ideal solution) you would have to go through all of them one at a time! Reason would have to open in order to find out what device it belongs to.
I forgot one point earlier: I completely support this model because it makes Reason device-agnostic. If I want a bass, I don't care whether it's made with VK-2, Quad or Subtractor, I just want a bass (indeed, my favorites are sorted by instrument genres, not devices). So, in my workflow at least, I don't need to sort anything per device. Several people here are asking for tag-based sorting, IMHO that would be orders of magnitude more convenient than device extensions. Again, not trying to shoot down your idea, just saying that it doesn't make sense with the way I work (or store my patches).

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QVprod
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19 Dec 2017

Despite the common repatch extension, every device has its own patch folder. So there's no real reason to confused as to what device a patch belongs to when browsing through the factory banks. If you're saving patches to a folder of your choosing, that's up to the individual on how they want to organize it. That aside, when browsing from the Reason browser It also tells you what device it is.
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Namyo85
Posts: 168
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19 Dec 2017

WongoTheSane wrote:
19 Dec 2017
You're forgetting one small detail: in order to register for an extension and the associated icon, there has to be an installer (at least on Windows). REs aren't installed by the OS, so it's a no-go (unless they decided to register them on the fly, which I think will never happen, because there are about 8192 items above that one on their to-do list).
I assume that may not be the case as if it was wouldn't Subtractor, Malstrom, Kong, Thor, The Echo, NNXT, NN19, Pulveriser, Alligator... amongst many other devices need their own installer also? They are all part of the program. In recent versions new devices were added to Reason, at one time the Alligator was added as a new device, it had it's own icon and extension which is .gator. When the Pulverisor was added as a new device it had it's own icon and extension .pulver. Amongst the more recent stock devices are the Players, Europa and Grain, ... with a sudden break in convention these new devices have repatch icons and extensions, I believe this happened around the time RE's were a new concept.
Don't forget I'm talking about core parts of the program, not 3rd party RE's.

I'm aware that some of Reasons stock devices were RE's at one point, two of them I believe were Radical Piano and Synchronous, maybe that's why those particular devices didn't have their own extension, however, they are now core parts of Reason, so perhaps maybe they should. That's debatable for now. I maintain however, that new Reason stock devices should follow existing convention and have their own icon and extension.

QVProd: I know what you're saying but they are for presets, not for ones own creations and there's no way to find / open these folders in Windows explorer (correct me if I'm wrong here). I currently create my own folders for specific RE's whenever I do make patches for them. For example I own FM4 so I have an FM4 folder which I save any new patches for that device in.

In conclusion. Reasons inbuilt core devices - that have load / save functionality - should have their own file extensions and icons. :cool:

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Namyo85
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19 Jan 2018

Name that file :cool:
reason-extensions.jpg
reason-extensions.jpg (185.5 KiB) Viewed 2787 times
I'm sure you'll agree it's so much nicer when devices have their own icon and extension, they even go to the trouble of saying exactly what the device is in the status bar. Now that's what I call attention to detail. )

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 894
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19 Jan 2018

Namyo85 wrote:
19 Jan 2018
Name that file :cool:

reason-extensions.jpg

I'm sure you'll agree it's so much nicer when devices have their own icon and extension, they even go to the trouble of saying exactly what the device is in the status bar. Now that's what I call attention to detail. )
I agree, if it is a stock Reason device it should have the usual Reason aspects like their own little icons, sure some don’t care if a bass is made with a particular device or not. But that’s not how everyone works. Everyone has their own way and uniqueness:D but in the case of file icons it throws me off. I don’t really preset browse because I only make combinator patches. But basically the point I’m trying to get across is that it makes it seemed rushed or something. I love the devices but there definitely are some aspects that make them seem like a rushed release :p btw I don’t mean any of this to sound negative
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

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Namyo85
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19 Jan 2018

You don't sound negative at all, quite the opposite. All we are doing is pushing for a more refined and improved Reason. All good.

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EnochLight
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19 Jan 2018

Namyo85 wrote:
19 Jan 2018
Name that file :cool:

reason-extensions.jpg

I'm sure you'll agree it's so much nicer when devices have their own icon and extension, they even go to the trouble of saying exactly what the device is in the status bar. Now that's what I call attention to detail. )
Sure, it looks nice and all, but - I don't really care. What I DO care about is that Reason's browser is device agnostic, and like it was mentioned earlier - I don't care what device is loaded if I'm looking for an awesome bass patch, or arp, or whatever. And if I'm browsing via a particular device with it in focus, I can only see/open patches that are compatible with it. So, at the end of the day - I don't really care.

Honestly, the way an icon looks or what a patch's extension is hasn't even occurred to me in almost 4 major versions of Reason. In fact, you're the first person to bring this up, that I can remember, in a very long time. If ever. I'm not saying what you want isn't valid - clearly it's affecting how you want to work. But at the end of the day, I seriously doubt this is something that Props would ever consider, taking into consideration how many other things need fixing and core features that are needed.

That said, I feel you're pain!
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househoppin09
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19 Jan 2018

EnochLight wrote:
19 Jan 2018
What I DO care about is that Reason's browser is device agnostic, and like it was mentioned earlier - I don't care what device is loaded if I'm looking for an awesome bass patch, or arp, or whatever. And if I'm browsing via a particular device with it in focus, I can only see/open patches that are compatible with it.
Wait, are you sure? I'm constantly annoyed by the way the browser shows me patches for all instruments or all effects, not just the device that has browse focus. I even made a post here a while back about how frustrating it is to have, for example, Combinator patches showing up when I only want to browse NN-XT patches. Did you find some way to change that behavior? Or is what you're saying only applicable to .repatch files?

househoppin09
Posts: 533
Joined: 03 Aug 2016

19 Jan 2018

Actually, it's even worse than I thought--put a bunch of .repatch files in a folder and there's STILL no way to restrict Reason's browser to show only the ones for the particular RE that has browse focus! Ugh, what a mess. Would love to know how you got the behavior you're describing, EnochLight.

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EnochLight
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19 Jan 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
19 Jan 2018
Wait, are you sure? I'm constantly annoyed by the way the browser shows me patches for all instruments or all effects, not just the device that has browse focus. I even made a post here a while back about how frustrating it is to have, for example, Combinator patches showing up when I only want to browse NN-XT patches. Did you find some way to change that behavior? Or is what you're saying only applicable to .repatch files?
No you're right - that's the behavior I get as well. But that's the "device agnostic" behavior that I actually prefer. This is similar to how Reason used to operate in the pre-8.0 days before the browser was re-designed: no matter what patch you choose, the device that it's from will be created (fun fact: you can select the "Revert" button at the bottom of the browser to go back to your original patch, similar to hitting "cancel" back when Reason's pre-8.0 browser was a window module).

Anyway, for me the way it is now is a productivity booster, because if it refused to open any patch I stumbled upon, I'd be left to hunt for a particular folder or location for the device in focus every time. Now THAT would irritate the hell out of me - LOL! :lol:
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househoppin09
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Joined: 03 Aug 2016

19 Jan 2018

Ah, I see. So what did you mean by "compatible" then? ("I can only see/open patches that are compatible with it")

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EnochLight
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19 Jan 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
19 Jan 2018
Ah, I see. So what did you mean by "compatible" then? ("I can only see/open patches that are compatible with it")
False alarm! Was composing that original post on the go. :D
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EnochLight
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19 Jan 2018

I think something akin to what was in the pre-8.0 browser might solve your issue. Maybe start pressuring Props to put it back in the browser?


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househoppin09
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Joined: 03 Aug 2016

19 Jan 2018

Yep, I'd really love to see something like that brought into the new browser. Seriously, I get the appeal of being able to seamlessly browse and load any instrument or effect patch, and I'm certainly not suggesting that that functionality should be removed, but there really are times when it's necessary to restrict browsing to a single device. I can't be the only one.

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EnochLight
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20 Jan 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
19 Jan 2018
there really are times when it's necessary to restrict browsing to a single device. I can't be the only one.
You're not. Namyo85 feels the same way, I think!
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Namyo85
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20 Jan 2018

EnochLight wrote:
19 Jan 2018

Honestly, the way an icon looks or what a patch's extension is hasn't even occurred to me in almost 4 major versions of Reason. In fact, you're the first person to bring this up, that I can remember, in a very long time. If ever. I'm not saying what you want isn't valid - clearly it's affecting how you want to work. But at the end of the day, I seriously doubt this is something that Props would ever consider, taking into consideration how many other things need fixing and core features that are needed.

That said, I feel you're pain!
Might be the first to raise the issue, don't know, I'm certainly not the only one that wants it. In my opinion this is a core feature and needs fixing. You say if you're looking for an awesome bass patch you don't care what device it's from... You can still do that even if this issue is fixed, so it certainly isn't a reason not to fix it. I don't believe there are any actual valid reasons not to fix it. Giving new Reason stock devices .repatch extensions is a step backwards in my opinion. B.t.w. No I'm not. ;)

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Namyo85
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20 Jan 2018

EnochLight wrote:
19 Jan 2018

...And if I'm browsing via a particular device with it in focus, I can only see/open patches that are compatible with it.

Wait a second... this only works with presets. It won't work with saved patches. For example, if you open Europa and click on the folder icon on Europa, yes you get the patches associated with it but these aren't in a user editable folder. When you come to save your own patches, you gonna have to be particular with the file names and create your own folders for them, e.g. bass1_europa.repatch. synthpad_grain.repatch... and they're not the only ones. No matter how you look at it, giving new stock devices .repatch extensions and icons is a confusing step in the wrong direction.

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tobypearce
Posts: 336
Joined: 28 Sep 2015

20 Jan 2018

I kind of agree with this. I was recently looking for the players patches and it took me a while to figure out they were in the Rack Extension folder.

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