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Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 15 Dec 2017
by DoctoralHermit
Today I was trying out Rob Papen's Quad for the first time on Reason 10, and unfortunately found that I am unable to play a single, unfiltered instance of the synthesizer. If I play some chords with four notes, I very quickly get the "computer too slow" message. When this happens, the Windows 10 system monitor shows my CPU usage as above 80%.
I'm surprised, since this is an RE rather than a VST. Is it possible that I've just dialed in particular settings on the synth that are creating wonky CPU effects? Is this a normal experience?
Here are my specs:
AMD A10-8700P Processor
12 GB of DDR3L 1600 MHz SDRAM
5400 RPM Hard Drive
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 15 Dec 2017
by Hazel
I have Ver.10 and I also have Quad and it seems to run fine on my machine, although a bit cpu heavy, but not too much an issue. That being said I have a quarter of the RAM that you do in a much older computer I'm sure. I would think it should be running perfect for you. Perhaps there is another reason for your problems with it.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 15 Dec 2017
by Hazel
I am using Win7 though...if there is a difference there somehow.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 15 Dec 2017
by DoctoralHermit
Hmmm interesting, that really makes me wonder if there's a problem with my system. Are you able to run it fine even if you're using all four modulators and the additional FM oscillator mod?
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 15 Dec 2017
by Hazel
Seems to be working fine in a fairly elaborate combinator playing chords, so it could just be something else...strange only that RE would have difficulty if it was something with your computer though.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 15 Dec 2017
by WongoTheSane
Here are ten instances of Quad, each playing a triad chord, with the first ten patches in the "Pads" folder. The CPU is barely brushing two bars, so I'm pretty sure there's something else at play on your system...
Is it the only RE that does this for you? Does it do it with every patch?
- quad.gif (721.66 KiB) Viewed 3376 times
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 15 Dec 2017
by DoctoralHermit
Thank you for your test! I ran the same test, and got to four instances playing a triad of the first four patches in "Pads," before Reason was using about 75% of my CPU and I was getting between 3 and 4 bars of DSP. So it does seem that the patch I had made earlier is particularly CPU intensive, but I'm wondering if there is some problem with my system.
As far as my performance with other REs, I have not yet found any instance where I have difficulties playing a single instrument with no outboard filter. However, I have noticed I cannot use more than, say, six instruments or so before I have to start bouncing audio.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by QVprod
Your cpu isn't very powerful I'm afraid. Seems to be on par with an intel i3. The 5400 rpm hard drive doesn't help either. That's very slow. It's best to have at least 7200 rpm drive. Nowadays with SSDs being so cheap, It's best to just go SSD. If you're able to upgrade your hard drive in your computer I would recommend it.
Here's a benchmark I saw when I looked up your cpu
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Carrizo-i ... 654.0.html
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by DoctoralHermit
I think you're right, it's just not a powerful CPU. I ran the CPUMark benchmarking software and scored 3680 on the CPU side, which is apparently above average for my CPU.
I've heard that an SSD really helps, but I'm still not clear in what way. Would having an SSD help prevent the "computer too slow" error when using the Quad like this?
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by avasopht
An SSD isn't going to help here.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by QVprod
avasopht wrote: ↑16 Dec 2017
An SSD isn't going to help here.
I can't speak specifically for Reason, but in my experience My 2010 Macbook Pro with a intel core 2 duo processor runs Mainstage significantly better after installing an SSD than it did with a 7200 rpm drive. Granted samples are included in my Mainstage setups (kontakt disk streaming). My computer geekage only goes but so far but I figured the OP's Reason performance may benefit from an significant increase in drive speed since the cpu is dealing with data from the hard drive no?
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by QVprod
DoctoralHermit wrote: ↑16 Dec 2017
I think you're right, it's just not a powerful CPU. I ran the CPUMark benchmarking software and scored 3680 on the CPU side, which is apparently above average for my CPU.
I've heard that an SSD really helps, but I'm still not clear in what way. Would having an SSD help prevent the "computer too slow" error when using the Quad like this?
From what I understand, the faster the hard drive the faster it sends/receives data. An SSD won't make your cpu faster or powerful, but upgrading to one may prevent your hard drive from being a bottleneck that further affects performance. A faster hard drive (particularly in the case of a 5400 one) should help prevent "computer too slow" messages as the program (Reason and REs) are being run from the hard drive.
That what I gather both from my experience and google research at least.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by DoctoralHermit
Thank you so much for your help! I'm totally fine with working with CPU limitations, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some sort of preventable issue with my computer.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by WongoTheSane
DoctoralHermit wrote: ↑16 Dec 2017
Thank you so much for your help! I'm totally fine with working with CPU limitations, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some sort of preventable issue with my computer.
Could you post the specific patch by any chance? I'd be willing to test it. A certain combination of settings might trigger an obscure bug somewhere, you never know.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by DoctoralHermit
Yes! I would love for you to take a look and see if you can determine why it seems to be CPU intensive. Here's the link:
https://ufile.io/a4u7s
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 16 Dec 2017
by WongoTheSane
Same setup as before, i.e. 10 tracks of your patch, each playing a chord: I have two bars consistently, so these are a little more CPU hungry than the ones I tried before. As QVprod said, it looks like your CPU isn't quite strong enough to deal with this. In this particular instance, reducing the number of voices (on the back of the device) might help? Set it to 8 instead of Auto, for instance, or 4 if it's still struggling?
- quad2.gif (869.2 KiB) Viewed 3268 times
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by DoctoralHermit
I'm not noticing any difference when I switch it from Auto to 4 Voices. What I've done is remove the CPU limit on the software, and it seems to not cause any problems... I wonder if the 80% limit was too low?
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by WongoTheSane
Yes, setting it to 95%/100% definitely gives you more headroom. Don't forget you can also Bounce in Place when you start piling up the instruments.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by Gorgon
DoctoralHermit wrote: ↑16 Dec 2017
I think you're right, it's just not a powerful CPU. I ran the CPUMark benchmarking software and scored 3680 on the CPU side, which is apparently above average for my CPU.
I've heard that an SSD really helps, but I'm still not clear in what way. Would having an SSD help prevent the "computer too slow" error when using the Quad like this?
Bit of an understatement. It's a pretty worthless CPU, pardon my french. Next time, spend more on the CPU and less on the RAM. 12Gb with such a slow CPU is baffling to me. And no, a faster harddisk will not fix this.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by ejanuska
Give yourself a Xmas present.
A new computer.
Have your credit card ready.
Operators are standing by.
BTW steer clear of AMD processors next time.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by Gorgon
ejanuska wrote: ↑17 Dec 2017
BTW steer clear of AMD processors next time.
Agreed.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by mcatalao
QVprod wrote: ↑16 Dec 2017
From what I understand, the faster the hard drive the faster it sends/receives data. An SSD won't make your cpu faster or powerful, but upgrading to one may prevent your hard drive from being a bottleneck that further affects performance. A faster hard drive (particularly in the case of a 5400 one) should help prevent "computer too slow" messages as the program (Reason and REs) are being run from the hard drive.
That what I gather both from my experience and google research at least.
QVprod,
The SSD will only help loading stuff faster into ram. Even Streamed audio goes into Ram. So if you're working with a sample based project or a sequenced full audio project, the data is still streammed from the HDD to the Ram, and processed by the CPU.
I'm pretty sure a Synth based project loaded from an SSD or from a 5400 rpm mechanical HDD will have the same performance. The latter will load slowly but there will not be a single difference on performance between the 2 projects. The same happens with Reason being installed on a HDD or a SSD. The SSD will allow reason to load faster, but since most if not all the instances of the program are loaded into ram, it's the same story again.
IMHO a SSD here is throwing money into the gutter.
Cheers,
MC
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by Breach The Sky
Have you tried turning the "Use hyperthreading" option under preference off? It makes a big difference having it off on my mobile CPU.
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by Gorgon
Breach The Sky wrote: ↑17 Dec 2017
Have you tried turning the "Use hyperthreading" option under preference off? It makes a big difference having it off on my mobile CPU.
You can't polish a turd
Re: Rob Papen's Quad doesn't work with my CPU
Posted: 17 Dec 2017
by QVprod
mcatalao wrote: ↑17 Dec 2017
QVprod wrote: ↑16 Dec 2017
From what I understand, the faster the hard drive the faster it sends/receives data. An SSD won't make your cpu faster or powerful, but upgrading to one may prevent your hard drive from being a bottleneck that further affects performance. A faster hard drive (particularly in the case of a 5400 one) should help prevent "computer too slow" messages as the program (Reason and REs) are being run from the hard drive.
That what I gather both from my experience and google research at least.
QVprod,
The SSD will only help loading stuff faster into ram. Even Streamed audio goes into Ram. So if you're working with a sample based project or a sequenced full audio project, the data is still streammed from the HDD to the Ram, and processed by the CPU.
I'm pretty sure a Synth based project loaded from an SSD or from a 5400 rpm mechanical HDD will have the same performance. The latter will load slowly but there will not be a single difference on performance between the 2 projects. The same happens with Reason being installed on a HDD or a SSD. The SSD will allow reason to load faster, but since most if not all the instances of the program are loaded into ram, it's the same story again.
IMHO a SSD here is throwing money into the gutter.
Cheers,
MC
Fair point. As I mentioned my computer geekage only goes but so far, so thanks for the clarification.