Automation lanes for effects right under the instruments - how?

[househoppin09]

I think the solution to this that would work best for the maximum number of Reason users is pretty clear: folder tracks, as has often been pointed out, including in this thread. Reason desperately needs grouping capabilities for all three areas (rack, sequencer, mixer). It should be possible in all three cases to ctrl/cmd+click a bunch of things and then select a "combine tracks/devices as group" menu item, then perform various manipulations that affect every track or device in the group. For the sequencer, it should be possible to designate any one track in the group as the one to display, with the rest implied by a narrow indicator strip. That should take care of OP's needs just fine, without having to cobble together some unwieldy new system of embedding automation lanes into other devices' tracks.

[antic604]

I think the solution to this that would work best for the maximum number of Reason users is pretty clear: folder tracks, as has often been pointed out, including in this thread. Reason desperately needs grouping capabilities for all three areas (rack, sequencer, mixer). It should be possible in all three cases to ctrl/cmd+click a bunch of things and then select a "combine tracks/devices as group" menu item, then perform various manipulations that affect every track or device in the group. For the sequencer, it should be possible to designate any one track in the group as the one to display, with the rest implied by a narrow indicator strip. That should take care of OP's needs just fine, without having to cobble together some unwieldy new system of embedding automation lanes into other devices' tracks.

Yeah, I could live with that!

[RandyEspoda]

That's exactly what I do too. This becomes second nature after a while.
If you get used to color coding all mix channels per instrument/effects group and place them all together,
then I don't see any downside, other than the little bit of extra work needed to do the above.
Also you can minimize all the effect channels, so you'll still have a very decent oversight.

It's all about being used to it.
For those used to a workflow as in most other DAW's, they'll have trouble in the beginning, adjusting to reason's 'different' approach.
Once used to the ins and outs though, you are presented with a sh*tload of flexibility, unlike any other DAW (imvho), regardless of its flaws.

I agree with flexibility, but it doesn't have to come at the cost of Sequencer clarity or ease of use, does it? For Reason to be as flexible as it is, we could still have effects' automation lanes under the main instrument and it wouldn't suffer a bit.

I know Propellerheads are in Sweden, so Reason's user develop a 'Stockhom syndrome' but come on... You can love a product and still see & criticise its shortcomings

That's the thing, as many have said, if you order the mix channels color coded per instrument group/effects, it doesn't come at the cost of sequencer clarity at all, they'll still be nicely grouped together. Off course you'd have to do something 'yourself''

And I think someone pointed out already that it is because of Reason's flexibility in connections that the effects automations aren't locked under the main instrument..

[antic604]

I agree with flexibility, but it doesn't have to come at the cost of Sequencer clarity or ease of use, does it? For Reason to be as flexible as it is, we could still have effects' automation lanes under the main instrument and it wouldn't suffer a bit.

I know Propellerheads are in Sweden, so Reason's user develop a 'Stockhom syndrome' but come on... You can love a product and still see & criticise its shortcomings

That's the thing, as many have said, if you order the mix channels color coded per instrument group/effects, it doesn't come at the cost of sequencer clarity at all, they'll still be nicely grouped together. Off course you'd have to do something 'yourself''

And I think someone pointed out already that it is because of Reason's flexibility in connections that the effects automations aren't locked under the main instrument..

We're going in circles, I'm afraid... If you color-code and put effects right under the instrument they're not any more "grouped together" than separate instances of Thor and Europa are. I really don't understand why people fight this idea, especially if that could be optional, via some toggle whether you want to see the effects' automation in instrument's track or not. Just like it's optional to have instrument automation in MIDI clip or in separate automation lanes and automation clips. Being able to collapse all instrument & effect tracks into folder would be even less invasive. None of those solutions threatens the flexibility of Reason...

But I understand we're talking about very hypothetical things anyway, as Props don't seem to be keen on updating the sequencer anyway, right? Furthermore, I'd prefer alias clips and multi-clip editing added first, before this is even considered.

[selig]

That's the thing, as many have said, if you order the mix channels color coded per instrument group/effects, it doesn't come at the cost of sequencer clarity at all, they'll still be nicely grouped together. Off course you'd have to do something 'yourself''

And I think someone pointed out already that it is because of Reason's flexibility in connections that the effects automations aren't locked under the main instrument..

We're going in circles, I'm afraid... If you color-code and put effects right under the instrument they're not any more "grouped together" than separate instances of Thor and Europa are. I really don't understand why people fight this idea, especially if that could be optional, via some toggle whether you want to see the effects' automation in instrument's track or not. Just like it's optional to have instrument automation in MIDI clip or in separate automation lanes and automation clips. Being able to collapse all instrument & effect tracks into folder would be even less invasive. None of those solutions threatens the flexibility of Reason...

But I understand we're talking about very hypothetical things anyway, as Props don't seem to be keen on updating the sequencer anyway, right? Furthermore, I'd prefer alias clips and multi-clip editing added first, before this is even considered.

Reason REALLY needs organization features such as track folding, track hiding, and track grouping. This should also be available for channels in the mixer as well IMO. This is such a basic functionality I can’t believe they have not seen fit to implement this (or at least some of this) at some point over 10 major versions over almost 20 years of development.


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[RandyEspoda]

We're going in circles, I'm afraid... If you color-code and put effects right under the instrument they're not any more "grouped together" than separate instances of Thor and Europa are. I really don't understand why people fight this idea, especially if that could be optional, via some toggle whether you want to see the effects' automation in instrument's track or not. Just like it's optional to have instrument automation in MIDI clip or in separate automation lanes and automation clips. Being able to collapse all instrument & effect tracks into folder would be even less invasive. None of those solutions threatens the flexibility of Reason...

But I understand we're talking about very hypothetical things anyway, as Props don't seem to be keen on updating the sequencer anyway, right? Furthermore, I'd prefer alias clips and multi-clip editing added first, before this is even considered.

Of all the features lacking in Reason, this is still (imho) some ways down on my list aswell.
I understand for people who are used to say Ableton or Logic, they'll have issues with Reason's mix channels,
but if you're like me and used to dragging mix channels around to keep them together,
it really isn't that detrimental. And I'm not fighting it at all, just saying there are some out there not giving a f that automations are not bound together with the instrument, rather the effects in reason having their own automation channels.
I'd rather see other things implemented first, just like you. There's enough of those.

[antic604]

We're going in circles, I'm afraid... If you color-code and put effects right under the instrument they're not any more "grouped together" than separate instances of Thor and Europa are. I really don't understand why people fight this idea, especially if that could be optional, via some toggle whether you want to see the effects' automation in instrument's track or not. Just like it's optional to have instrument automation in MIDI clip or in separate automation lanes and automation clips. Being able to collapse all instrument & effect tracks into folder would be even less invasive. None of those solutions threatens the flexibility of Reason...

But I understand we're talking about very hypothetical things anyway, as Props don't seem to be keen on updating the sequencer anyway, right? Furthermore, I'd prefer alias clips and multi-clip editing added first, before this is even considered.

Of all the features lacking in Reason, this is still (imho) some ways down on my list aswell.
I understand for people who are used to say Ableton or Logic, they'll have issues with Reason's mix channels,
but if you're like me and used to dragging mix channels around to keep them together,
it really isn't that detrimental. And I'm not fighting it at all, just saying there are some out there not giving a f that automations are not bound together with the instrument, rather the effects in reason having their own automation channels.
I'd rather see other things implemented first, just like you. There's enough of those.

Let's agree to ....erm, agree

[RandyEspoda]

Of all the features lacking in Reason, this is still (imho) some ways down on my list aswell.
I understand for people who are used to say Ableton or Logic, they'll have issues with Reason's mix channels,
but if you're like me and used to dragging mix channels around to keep them together,
it really isn't that detrimental. And I'm not fighting it at all, just saying there are some out there not giving a f that automations are not bound together with the instrument, rather the effects in reason having their own automation channels.
I'd rather see other things implemented first, just like you. There's enough of those.

Let's agree to ....erm, agree

On certain things at least.
I'm keeping in mind also that one's perspective and opinion on such things is mostly linked to one's own first hand experience with it, and therefor naturally varies.

F.e. one that upgrades to Reason after a long time in another DAW, and is tied to certain deadlines, personal or otherwise, therefor very time-aware and then encountering this 'looseness' in Reason's sequencer, will probably spur some frustration that will keep on lingering and surfacing everytime one works in Reason's sequencer. I get that. Other hand for one that started out with Reason long ago and never intensively used other DAW's and is long used to the Reason sequencer and it's 'spread it out' mentality, it wouldn't be frustrating at all. I get that too.

But granted, it could never be bad to improve these kinds of things. On the contrary.