How do you guys feel about Reason getting rewritten on 11?

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normen
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11 Dec 2017

pjeudy wrote:
11 Dec 2017
No. A complete rewrite not add features to Reason as it is today. Not asking to keep as is and simply add multi window interaction...doing it that will make Reason even clunkier.

Rewrite the whole thing make it's existing features better or change them all together.
You do realize that supporting hires GUIs would not require a rewrite of Reason right? I don't know what you mean by "multi window interaction" but if you want a completely different DAW maybe you should use a completely different DAW?

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EnochLight
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11 Dec 2017

normen wrote:
11 Dec 2017
You do realize that supporting hires GUIs would not require a rewrite of Reason right? I don't know what you mean by "multi window interaction" but if you want a completely different DAW maybe you should use a completely different DAW?
Perhaps not a complete rewrite, but why are you assuming the native devices - from all the way back in 1.0 - are poised to support high resolution graphics without some considerable effort? Asking for a friend.
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stephensmattlee
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11 Dec 2017

In the Propellerheads defence, even Apple with Logic Pro still haven’t done anything with the very dated visuals of certain devices such as the EXS24, Ultrabeat, and the old synth instruments from a long long long time ago. They’re still very clunky and haven’t had any feature refinements to make them better. That said, Apple have been slowly upgrading the GUI of of the audio plugins in “point” updates.

Personally I don’t think Reason needs a complete rewrite, but I do think there’s still a lot of simple features that should have been added a long time ago (eg group editing of audio clips, curved fades/automation).

I know the Props are a small company and don’t have the money and resources as someone like Apple, but I do think there needs to be a bit more in the way of refinements put into Reasons “core”.
Where Reason now has a lot in the way of content, plus VST support added recently I think it would be a good time to take a step back from adding new content but making those much needed updates to Reasons foundations, eg the visuals, performance/optimisation and updates to the sequencer and devices Reason already has.


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normen
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11 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Perhaps not a complete rewrite, but why are you assuming the native devices - from all the way back in 1.0 - are poised to support high resolution graphics without some considerable effort? Asking for a friend.
Tell your friend if you write software you separate GUI and the rest of the code as much as you can so you don't have to rewrite the whole application in case you want to change the GUI :)

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pjeudy
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11 Dec 2017

normen wrote:
11 Dec 2017
pjeudy wrote:
11 Dec 2017
No. A complete rewrite not add features to Reason as it is today. Not asking to keep as is and simply add multi window interaction...doing it that will make Reason even clunkier.

Rewrite the whole thing make it's existing features better or change them all together.
You do realize that supporting hires GUIs would not require a rewrite of Reason right? I don't know what you mean by "multi window interaction" but if you want a completely different DAW maybe you should use a completely different DAW?
Hires GUIs ?? U responded to the wrong post. I don't know what you are referring to.

Multi window interaction... Meaning being able to drag and drop from anywhere in the DAW. Try dropping a Midi file from the timeline into the browser.
Try dragging an effect device from one channel to the other without first blocking half of your screen with the Rack.
MIDI import/export in Reason is shameful 10 years later.

Reason needs a Full rewrite! Reason. Is not a single DAW, but 3 different software hacked to work together...
My opinion is that Propellerhead REASON needs a complete rewrite!
P.S: people should stop saying "No it won't happen" when referring to a complete rewrite of REASON. I have 3 letters for ya....VST
Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:53 pm

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EnochLight
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11 Dec 2017

normen wrote:
11 Dec 2017
EnochLight wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Perhaps not a complete rewrite, but why are you assuming the native devices - from all the way back in 1.0 - are poised to support high resolution graphics without some considerable effort? Asking for a friend.
Tell your friend if you write software you separate GUI and the rest of the code as much as you can so you don't have to rewrite the whole application in case you want to change the GUI :)
OK, thanks. It sounds so easy! I wonder why it hasn't happened yet... ;)
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Tryggvasson
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Joined: 11 Dec 2017

11 Dec 2017

I've compared an IK Multimedia SSL bus compressor to the PH, and, in my view, it sounds better in terms of transients and depth. The PH sounds a bit clearer, but more digital, to my ears - for the same settings, obviously.

I don't know whether the IKM's is more faithfully reproduced (probably, since it's newere, and these guys are fantastic at emulations, but I couldn't swear it), or just better sounding, period.

So I've started to wonder about the quality of the console, platform. Another huge factor of doubt is that I've NEVER, in any medium, or any platform, heard a professional grade/sounding mix made in Reason. PH tutorials and product announcements included. So maybe a recheck is in order.

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normen
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11 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
11 Dec 2017
OK, thanks. It sounds so easy! I wonder why it hasn't happened yet... ;)
I guess because of work on VST integration, new synths and such? It all takes time and work, thats why talking about a "rewrite" is complete crazy talk, we wouldn't hear from the Props for years. Let somebody else write that DAW they can later mess up and let the Props mess up theirs.

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normen
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11 Dec 2017

Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
I've compared an IK Multimedia SSL bus compressor to the PH, and, in my view, it sounds better in terms of transients and depth. The PH sounds a bit clearer, but more digital, to my ears - for the same settings, obviously.

I don't know whether the IKM's is more faithfully reproduced (probably, since it's newere, and these guys are fantastic at emulations, but I couldn't swear it), or just better sounding, period.

So I've started to wonder about the quality of the console, platform. Another huge factor of doubt is that I've NEVER, in any medium, or any platform, heard a professional grade/sounding mix made in Reason. PH tutorials and product announcements included. So maybe a recheck is in order.
Heh, even strapping in two different analog 1176s can yield quite different results. The art is in recognizing what is actually happening and using it accordingly, not mistaking it for some kind of "quality". Like in the 80's you had a high frequency boost on EVERYTHING to give it that "HiFi" sound or like most "magic analog" plugins have a slight volume boost even when all knobs are at zero - because louder always sounds better.

EdGrip
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11 Dec 2017

Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
So I've started to wonder about the quality of the console, platform. Another huge factor of doubt is that I've NEVER, in any medium, or any platform, heard a professional grade/sounding mix made in Reason. PH tutorials and product announcements included. So maybe a recheck is in order.
Propellerhead said they will be fixing the Reason Sound to allow Reason to sound professional in a 10.x update.

Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

11 Dec 2017

Reason has had many rewrites in the last few years. A completely re-written browser for example. Is everyone happy with that rewrite? Personally I still preferred several aspects of the old browser (certainly not the speed though), I still think there is plenty of work to be done on the browser. The Audio tracking aspect of the program originally dates from Record parts of which have seen rewrites since that recent time. Much of what Reason is now (including VST support) is pretty fresh code anyway I would think.

Underneath all the capabilities that have been added is that core of what Reason used to be, a self-contained creative unit with a strongly defined purpose. So rather than a bottom level rewrite I see more benefit in bringing all the more recent capabilities together in a more cohesive way, it needs to re-define it's core purpose, to become more 'Reason' again, rather than being Reason plus some DAW like additions.

Just my 2p

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FlowerSoldier
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

11 Dec 2017

EdGrip wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
So I've started to wonder about the quality of the console, platform. Another huge factor of doubt is that I've NEVER, in any medium, or any platform, heard a professional grade/sounding mix made in Reason. PH tutorials and product announcements included. So maybe a recheck is in order.
Propellerhead said they will be fixing the Reason Sound to allow Reason to sound professional in a 10.x update.
You got a source you can link to Ed?
I hadn't heard that. Most interesting.

Tryggvasson
Posts: 19
Joined: 11 Dec 2017

11 Dec 2017

EdGrip wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
So I've started to wonder about the quality of the console, platform. Another huge factor of doubt is that I've NEVER, in any medium, or any platform, heard a professional grade/sounding mix made in Reason. PH tutorials and product announcements included. So maybe a recheck is in order.
Propellerhead said they will be fixing the Reason Sound to allow Reason to sound professional in a 10.x update.
That would be awesome news. You know, I've just answered their survey and told them what could be improved is actually provide the tools (basicly, scrap pretty much all PH REs, except the synths, and a smapler, and also, maybe, a rechecking of the platform - it's amazing a lot of guys seeem to think the same thing) for it to be a professional grade DAW, instead of the tinkering toy for loopers and the endless "30 second track to nowhere" producing tool it is now. And allow even those to sound professional, not flat and digital, with wild transients and fizz, the way it does now.

Tryggvasson
Posts: 19
Joined: 11 Dec 2017

11 Dec 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Reason has had many rewrites in the last few years. A completely re-written browser for example. Is everyone happy with that rewrite? Personally I still preferred several aspects of the old browser (certainly not the speed though), I still think there is plenty of work to be done on the browser. The Audio tracking aspect of the program originally dates from Record parts of which have seen rewrites since that recent time. Much of what Reason is now (including VST support) is pretty fresh code anyway I would think.

Underneath all the capabilities that have been added is that core of what Reason used to be, a self-contained creative unit with a strongly defined purpose. So rather than a bottom level rewrite I see more benefit in bringing all the more recent capabilities together in a more cohesive way, it needs to re-define it's core purpose, to become more 'Reason' again, rather than being Reason plus some DAW like additions.

Just my 2p
The only problem I have with the browser is that it doesn't allow deletes/copy/pastes/renames, the way a regular browser does (e.g. Win Explorer). I have to open files in Explorer for that, which is the option provided, as a short, wash-my-hands way to solve the problem.

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joeyluck
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11 Dec 2017

Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
EdGrip wrote:
11 Dec 2017


Propellerhead said they will be fixing the Reason Sound to allow Reason to sound professional in a 10.x update.
That would be awesome news. You know, I've just answered their survey and told them what could be improved is actually provide the tools (basicly, scrap pretty much all PH REs, except the synths, and a smapler, and also, maybe, a rechecking of the platform - it's amazing a lot of guys seeem to think the same thing) for it to be a professional grade DAW, instead of the tinkering toy for loopers and the endless "30 second track to nowhere" producing tool it is now. And allow even those to sound professional, not flat and digital, with wild transients and fizz, the way it does now.
You mean remove future compatibility?

I think all the Reason devices are great and I still find a use for them today. But they are taking up a great deal of the Browser.
Luckily we can add devices to favorites lists now :thumbs_up: But I can see them trying to gear the Browser's home towards new users (like they have with the Reason 9 and Reason 10 Sounds ReFills). Maybe they could have a legacy devices section?

I'd still like to see a better grouping via tagging. Much of the favorites lists I've been creating, such as "Effects - EQ" are things that could be grouped that way (and edited) from the start.

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mcatalao
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11 Dec 2017

dioxide wrote:
08 Dec 2017
Perhaps a better question might be: how do you feel about getting no new features while Reason's existing features are being rewritten?
Remember how people feel when Reason 7 or 8 got out just with workflow and graphics revisions?

Remember how people felt when 10 got out with 3 new devices and no new functions?

Remember how people felt betraid when reason 6.5 got out with rack extensions?

Remember how people felt betraid when reason 9.5 got out with VST Support?´

Remember how people got MAD because Record appeared with Audio and Reason integration?

And do you remember how people felt confused when record was dismissed and Reason 6 got Audio in?

I can go on for any major and .x release. ;)

Tryggvasson
Posts: 19
Joined: 11 Dec 2017

11 Dec 2017

joeyluck wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017


That would be awesome news. You know, I've just answered their survey and told them what could be improved is actually provide the tools (basicly, scrap pretty much all PH REs, except the synths, and a smapler, and also, maybe, a rechecking of the platform - it's amazing a lot of guys seeem to think the same thing) for it to be a professional grade DAW, instead of the tinkering toy for loopers and the endless "30 second track to nowhere" producing tool it is now. And allow even those to sound professional, not flat and digital, with wild transients and fizz, the way it does now.
You mean remove future compatibility?

I think all the Reason devices are great and I still find a use for them today. But they are taking up a great deal of the Browser.
Luckily we can add devices to favorites lists now :thumbs_up: But I can see them trying to gear the Browser's home towards new users (like they have with the Reason 9 and Reason 10 Sounds ReFills). Maybe they could have a legacy devices section?

I'd still like to see a better grouping via tagging. Much of the favorites lists I've been creating, such as "Effects - EQ" are things that could be grouped that way (and edited) from the start.
Yeah, sure, I mean, if they're there, of course, why not let you choose to install them if you want to, as a legacy pack, why not? But as go to/solid rely-on tools for a professional sounding mix, I think they've long outlived their potential. I hadn't even realized it until actually starting to compare in the mix, and saw the difference just using different plug-ins makes. I realized I could have gone on for years trying to improve them, without the single change a good plugin, with a few hours' worth of getting used to.

madmacman
Posts: 786
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

11 Dec 2017

Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
That would be awesome news. You know, I've just answered their survey and told them what could be improved is actually provide the tools (basicly, scrap pretty much all PH REs, except the synths, and a smapler, and also, maybe, a rechecking of the platform - it's amazing a lot of guys seeem to think the same thing) for it to be a professional grade DAW, instead of the tinkering toy for loopers and the endless "30 second track to nowhere" producing tool it is now. And allow even those to sound professional, not flat and digital, with wild transients and fizz, the way it does now.
I'm still puzzled regarding your request. If you remove literally everything that was Reason all about in the past. Well what does remain then? I mean: what would make Reason different from any xyz DAW out there? Loading VST's and having a horizontal sequencer lane is available everywhere. Then you could choose Cubase, Logic, Ableton in the first place and declare Reason as "obsolete" for the music world.

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EnochLight
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Location: Imladris

11 Dec 2017

EdGrip wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
So I've started to wonder about the quality of the console, platform. Another huge factor of doubt is that I've NEVER, in any medium, or any platform, heard a professional grade/sounding mix made in Reason. PH tutorials and product announcements included. So maybe a recheck is in order.
Propellerhead said they will be fixing the Reason Sound to allow Reason to sound professional in a 10.x update.
FlowerSoldier wrote:
11 Dec 2017
You got a source you can link to Ed?
I hadn't heard that. Most interesting.
Hehehe, I see that sarcasm is easily lost in translation on the Internetz... :lol: :lol: :lol: He's kidding. Reason "not sounding professional" is ludicrous. It also seems that people's metric of what sounds "pro" and what doesn't is subjective. There are plenty of productions that were done in Reason that are on the radio and in ads, etc. Just because you may not approve of the mix is completely subjective.

Here's one that comes to mind (all over the radio where I'm at, and Apple featured it in an ad):

Last edited by EnochLight on 11 Dec 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

11 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
11 Dec 2017
FlowerSoldier wrote:
11 Dec 2017
You got a source you can link to Ed?
I hadn't heard that. Most interesting.
Hehehe, I see that sarcasm is easily lost in translation on the Internetz... :lol: :lol: :lol:
It is, right? ^^

Tryggvasson
Posts: 19
Joined: 11 Dec 2017

11 Dec 2017

madmacman wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
That would be awesome news. You know, I've just answered their survey and told them what could be improved is actually provide the tools (basicly, scrap pretty much all PH REs, except the synths, and a smapler, and also, maybe, a rechecking of the platform - it's amazing a lot of guys seeem to think the same thing) for it to be a professional grade DAW, instead of the tinkering toy for loopers and the endless "30 second track to nowhere" producing tool it is now. And allow even those to sound professional, not flat and digital, with wild transients and fizz, the way it does now.
I'm still puzzled regarding your request. If you remove literally everything that was Reason all about in the past. Well what does remain then? I mean: what would make Reason different from any xyz DAW out there? Loading VST's and having a horizontal sequencer lane is available everywhere. Then you could choose Cubase, Logic, Ableton in the first place and declare Reason as "obsolete" for the music world.
It's got the rack, and the built in SSL console. That's pretty much it. Should there be more? Are you more interested in Reason being "different" than in it being good?

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joeyluck
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11 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
11 Dec 2017
EdGrip wrote:
11 Dec 2017


Propellerhead said they will be fixing the Reason Sound to allow Reason to sound professional in a 10.x update.
FlowerSoldier wrote:
11 Dec 2017
You got a source you can link to Ed?
I hadn't heard that. Most interesting.
Hehehe, I see that sarcasm is easily lost in translation on the Internetz... :lol: :lol: :lol: He's kidding. Reason "not sounding professional" is ludicrous. It also seems that people's metric of what sounds "pro" and what doesn't is subjective. There are plenty of productions that were done in Reason that are on the radio and in ads, etc. Just because you may not approve of the mix is completely subjective.

Here's one that comes to mind (all over the radio where I'm at, and Apple featured it in an ad):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY0UkjcL9vA
Great song and great example :thumbs_up:

Here's another example:


avasopht
Competition Winner
Posts: 3931
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

11 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
11 Dec 2017

OK, thanks. It sounds so easy! I wonder why it hasn't happened yet... ;)
Priorities.

If they worked on that feature, they couldn't have worked on the features they did work on. So you'd have the updated GUI, but then people would be saying, "but what about themes? why doesn't the RE have sample input? Why don't we have a granular synth?" etc.

Basically, whatever feature Propellerhead develops, there will always be the feature it didn't develop.

DSP wise there is absolutely nothing to change in code. I suspect they may be intending to update native devices using the RE SDK, and we are just waiting for the SDK to support those key features. Once that's done it's not going to be rocket science to create a 3d model porting thier vector rendering to Lua (assuming that's not how they're rendered already).

avasopht
Competition Winner
Posts: 3931
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

11 Dec 2017

Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
It's got the rack, and the built in SSL console. That's pretty much it. Should there be more? Are you more interested in Reason being "different" than in it being good?
Failing to see how removing Propellerhead REs and other things makes it all of a sudden sound better.

Tryggvasson
Posts: 19
Joined: 11 Dec 2017

11 Dec 2017

avasopht wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Tryggvasson wrote:
11 Dec 2017
It's got the rack, and the built in SSL console. That's pretty much it. Should there be more? Are you more interested in Reason being "different" than in it being good?
Failing to see how removing Propellerhead REs and other things makes it all of a sudden sound better.
OBVIOUSLY REPLACING them, not merely removing them would do the trick. It kind of seemed obvious to me.

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