How do you guys feel about Reason getting rewritten on 11?

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Marco Raaphorst
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15 Dec 2017

Psuper wrote:
15 Dec 2017
EnochLight wrote:
15 Dec 2017


I take it you've never used an iPad with Cubasis running, then? If you have, I'd love to hear why you think it sucks. Because I have, and all I can say is that it is a perfectly workable environment as a mobile solution - and that's coming from someone who doesn't even use Cubase.

It far from sucks, man. Could it be better? Of course it could! But sucks? That's just silly talk.
No, it sucks. I mean we're comparing an Apple or Android tablet performance vs desktop or even laptop? It's not even remotely close.

Now is it fun? Sure I already said it is for just messing around on the couch or something, adding it to your desktop arsenal if you wanted to of which I've done yet retired as the noveltoy wore off.

And your right, Sucks is relative. However application is not, and anyone who thinks Audio Production will ever be preferred on the current crop of "Mobile" tablets or phones or whatever, compared to a controlled desktop environment - well that's the silly talk.
People are using laptops while they can use more powerful dekstops. But performance is not the main thing. Let's face it, Reason is posibly the worst performance DAW at the moment. Doesn't stop us from using it either.

Some of the iOS programs are totally unique. Allihoopa is a company who RUNS fully on that stuff. People are making music with these tools. Including Kanye etc.
Marco Raaphorst

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Psuper
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15 Dec 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
15 Dec 2017
Psuper wrote:
15 Dec 2017


No, it sucks. I mean we're comparing an Apple or Android tablet performance vs desktop or even laptop? It's not even remotely close.

Now is it fun? Sure I already said it is for just messing around on the couch or something, adding it to your desktop arsenal if you wanted to of which I've done yet retired as the noveltoy wore off.

And your right, Sucks is relative. However application is not, and anyone who thinks Audio Production will ever be preferred on the current crop of "Mobile" tablets or phones or whatever, compared to a controlled desktop environment - well that's the silly talk.
People are using laptops while they can use more powerful dekstops. But performance is not the main thing. Let's face it, Reason is posibly the worst performance DAW at the moment. Doesn't stop us from using it either.

Some of the iOS programs are totally unique. Allihoopa is a company who RUNS fully on that stuff. People are making music with these tools. Including Kanye etc.
Sure all valid points, except I'd say performance (raw power, streamlined efficiency) is the main thing, however not always the most important to the artist. Hence a portion of our disagreements.

I see focused Mobile development as a nail in the coffin for Propellerhead and many of it's users. Is there good money to be made in Mobile? In light of R10s development I'd say likely. Is it good for Propellerhead? Good for users? Guess we'll find out soon.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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EnochLight
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15 Dec 2017

Psuper wrote:
15 Dec 2017
No, it sucks. I mean we're comparing an Apple or Android tablet performance vs desktop or even laptop? It's not even remotely close.

Now is it fun? Sure I already said it is for just messing around on the couch or something, adding it to your desktop arsenal if you wanted to of which I've done yet retired as the noveltoy wore off.

And your right, 'Sucks' is relative. However application is not, and if someone thinks Audio Production will ever be preferred on the current crop of "Mobile" tablets or phones or whatever, compared to a controlled desktop environment - well that's the silly talk.
I didn't say it was relative - that was Marco. I just flat out disagree that it sucks. It sounds like you've never used it, so I'd wager your opinion is biased, perhaps even baseless. If you have the opportunity, try it out (Cubasis + a recent iPad). Audio recording works fine, you can run a lot of effects, it's compatible with AU to an extent, and the projects can be exported to the desktop version of Cubase. I even got good results from the time-stretching, though I prefer Reason's time stretching algo's over Cubase's "zplane’s élastique". Used with the right audio interface (I tried it with my RME Babyface Pro), the iPad uses audio interfaces with Core Audio and latency is rockstar. We even hooked up my Panorama as a MIDI controller, and had a full fledged portable recording station. Not too shabby.

Would I use it as my primary workstation? Of course not - but as a mobile solution - it's hard not to like. I mean, unless you've never used it... ;)

There's no reason why Reason couldn't take a similar approach to mobile. Make it a companion app. Done.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Marco Raaphorst
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15 Dec 2017

Psuper wrote:
15 Dec 2017
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
15 Dec 2017


People are using laptops while they can use more powerful dekstops. But performance is not the main thing. Let's face it, Reason is posibly the worst performance DAW at the moment. Doesn't stop us from using it either.

Some of the iOS programs are totally unique. Allihoopa is a company who RUNS fully on that stuff. People are making music with these tools. Including Kanye etc.
Sure all valid points, except I'd say performance (raw power, streamlined efficiency) is the main thing, however not always the most important to the artist. Hence a portion of our disagreements.

I see focused Mobile development as a nail in the coffin for Propellerhead and many of it's users. Is there good money to be made in Mobile? In light of R10s development I'd say likely. Is it good for Propellerhead? Good for users? Guess we'll find out soon.
Propellerhead is already focussing on mobile. For many years. When they had their side changed many years ago a picture of a guy looking at his iPhone was the big picture on the frontpage (it felt a little strange to me). The Props focussed on Take, Figure and Reason at the time. But Take and Figure got the most attention. Then things were changed again and Reason became more prominent again on the website.

Then the apps were moved to Allihoopa.

One thing I found interesting is that Ableton has not turned Live into a iOS app. Many iOS apps offer that same clip triggering functionality. MPC like stuff.

It's is tricky, I must say. But the Props cannot ignore that mobile is the future. Any website owner can see that most of his visitors use mobile devices.
Marco Raaphorst

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EnochLight
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15 Dec 2017

I'd argue that low cost mobile is the future. The vast majority of India, China, and much of Africa have their Internet access via their cellphone. I don't know how that will play out as far as content creation is concerned, though.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Psuper
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15 Dec 2017

Enoch I was replying to Marco about that, I just didn't quote.

I don't like Cubase. I don't like Apple, why would I? Can I gauge if I'd use it? Easily, I never would.

As for who uses what, have you ever used the touchdaw to control Reason or other daws? Hell I use my G13 as a midicontroller. Setup Glovepie to live play music in my LOTRO days. All I do is look for fun ways to play music, using a tablet was for me years ago and found it fun for about a month.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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avasopht
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15 Dec 2017

Yeah, err, I'll leave planning to them. I'm sure they know how to manage their own software development and decide when a rewrite is necessary ;)

Lots of presumptions being made here.
---

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Marco Raaphorst
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15 Dec 2017

avasopht wrote:
15 Dec 2017
Yeah, err, I'll leave planning to them. I'm sure they know how to manage their own software development and decide when a rewrite is necessary ;)

Lots of presumptions being made here.
predictions ;)
Marco Raaphorst

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Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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jappe
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15 Dec 2017

Depends on the result!
Imagine the horror if the turn would come for Reason to be dumbified into a simpleton user interface showing only one device at the time. With BIG buttons 😃.

Ostermilk
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16 Dec 2017

avasopht wrote:
15 Dec 2017
Yeah, err, I'll leave planning to them. I'm sure they know how to manage their own software development and decide when a rewrite is necessary ;)

Lots of presumptions being made here.
Agreed.

It's somewhat like escaping gas claiming an influence on the digestive tract it came from.

/thread

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devilfish
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16 Dec 2017

.... 5€ upgrade price for each RE you want to use in R11 :D
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sdst
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16 Dec 2017

jappe wrote:
15 Dec 2017
Depends on the result!
Imagine the horror if the turn would come for Reason to be dumbified into a simpleton user interface showing only one device at the time. With BIG buttons 😃.

that would be Reason R.O.M.O.S, and would cost $3000

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antic604
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18 Dec 2017

At this point of my experience with Reason - I bought it to use its devices, not VSTs - the only thing I care for is uprezzed GUI. How is this still acceptable? Compare the title bar resolution to any element in Reason. It's all composed of 2x2 pixels (Win10, Surface Pro 4 but from what I saw it's the same for OSX, only blurred):

clip.png
clip.png (175.7 KiB) Viewed 998 times
(open in separate tab for crisper image)
Reason 10 // Bitwig 2 // Live 10 // Studio One 4 @ Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB
My music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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EnochLight
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18 Dec 2017

antic604 wrote:
18 Dec 2017
At this point of my experience with Reason - I bought it to use its devices, not VSTs - the only thing I care for is uprezzed GUI. How is this still acceptable? Compare the title bar resolution to any element in Reason. It's all composed of 2x2 pixels (Win10, Surface Pro 4 but from what I saw it's the same for OSX, only blurred):


clip.png

(open in separate tab for crisper image)
What's even stranger is that my screen grab, at a lower resolution, seems to look even weirder than yours. Do you have Windows doing any app scaling on your Surface? Mine is set to 100% in this screen grab (but at a 1842 x 1080 window resolution):

R10_snip.png
R10_snip.png (326.98 KiB) Viewed 985 times
You cropped yours, though.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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antic604
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18 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
18 Dec 2017
What's even stranger is that my screen grab, at a lower resolution, seems to look even weirder than yours. Do you have Windows doing any app scaling on your Surface? Mine is set to 100% in this screen grab (but at a 1842 x 1080 window resolution)

You cropped yours, though.
Reason looks fine on 1080p screens, because I think 768p were the norm when it was released? But nowadays it's simply hard to accept. Especially if you use other DAWs that take advantage of additional resolution. I indeed have my Surface Pro 4 at 200%, because the screen is only 12'' but with Bitwig 2 or Live 10 I can easily reduce it to 150% and they still look great, because of the extra sharpness afforded by high DPI. It's completely opposite with Reason, that simply gets blurrier, because at 200% I at least have 2x2 pixels so it's blocky but sharp, whereas at 150% it basically interlaces 1x1 pixels with 2x2 pixels.

Here's the full-res image (righ-click & open in another tab, compare Reason GUI to top bar:

Image

Mind you, it's totally usable and - despite that - Reason is the most beautiful DAW I own, but it's very clear it could use GUI uprez.
Reason 10 // Bitwig 2 // Live 10 // Studio One 4 @ Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB
My music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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EnochLight
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18 Dec 2017

antic604 wrote:
18 Dec 2017
I indeed have my Surface Pro 4 at 200%, because the screen is only 12''
That's your issue right there. Windows app scaling can mutilate apps when it upscales them. At 100% scaling, it looks fine. If I scale mine up to 200%, and crop the photo like you did, I can repeat the blurriness even on a 1080p panel. Don't get me wrong though - I also feel Reason's GUI/UX needs a proper HD (4K/8K) scaling option (see the plethora of posts I've already made on the subject). ;)
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Dante
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18 Dec 2017

Oquasec wrote:
08 Dec 2017
Hypothetically speaking...How would all of you react to Reason getting a literal rewrite in later versions.
Is this something Propellerhead should consider doing in later iterations?
Whose gonna pay for it ?

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EnochLight
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18 Dec 2017

Dante wrote:
18 Dec 2017
Whose gonna pay for it ?
As in all software development, at first the company that makes it. And then the customers who eventually buy it or pay to upgrade.
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antic604
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18 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
18 Dec 2017
antic604 wrote:
18 Dec 2017
I indeed have my Surface Pro 4 at 200%, because the screen is only 12''
That's your issue right there. Windows app scaling can mutilate apps when it upscales them. At 100% scaling, it looks fine. If I scale mine up to 200%, and crop the photo like you did, I can repeat the blurriness even on a 1080p panel. Don't get me wrong though - I also feel Reason's GUI/UX needs a proper HD (4K/8K) scaling option (see the plethora of posts I've already made on the subject). ;)
I'm sorry, but that's not "my issue", since Bitwig 2, Live 10 and Studio One 3 all look great at those same settings, without any trace of pixelation. As I said, it looks good on your monitor, because it's only 1080p. I can't use scalling less than 200% for Reason because things get too small on 12'', whereas I can easily get to 150% with other DAWs because they stay sharp. Also, it looks as blurry / blocky on retina displays under OSX.

It's definitely Reason's issue.
Reason 10 // Bitwig 2 // Live 10 // Studio One 4 @ Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB
My music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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EnochLight
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18 Dec 2017

antic604 wrote:
18 Dec 2017
EnochLight wrote:
18 Dec 2017


That's your issue right there. Windows app scaling can mutilate apps when it upscales them. At 100% scaling, it looks fine. If I scale mine up to 200%, and crop the photo like you did, I can repeat the blurriness even on a 1080p panel. Don't get me wrong though - I also feel Reason's GUI/UX needs a proper HD (4K/8K) scaling option (see the plethora of posts I've already made on the subject). ;)
I'm sorry, but that's not "my issue"
You misunderstand. I am in agreement that Reason is indeed problematic when app scaling. I'm merely pointing out that Windows app scaling - especially at 200% - makes it a lot more noticeable.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

chaosroyale
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19 Dec 2017

I still maintain that a simple hi-res re-skin of the main devices wouldn't even take very long. Kids on deviant art would probably do it for free. Stick a button in preferences for "original gui; saves performance" and "HD gui; uses more memory and needs 64 bit windows" or whatever. maybe optimise 3 or 4 skin sizes based on resizes of a very hi-res master, so it looks good on HD laptop / retina / giant 4k / whatever screen.

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EnochLight
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19 Dec 2017

chaosroyale wrote:
19 Dec 2017
Stick a button in preferences for "original gui; saves performance" and "HD gui; uses more memory and needs 64 bit windows" or whatever.
Reason only works on 64-bit OS at this point, so no need to even go that far. But I suspect that the whole process is a lot more complicated than we all realize, else it would already have been done several versions ago, IMHO.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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