ReasonTalk Winter Competition!

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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selig
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03 Dec 2017

joeyluck wrote:
03 Dec 2017
For those participating... If the thought of winter inspires you to write about a holiday... and if that holiday happens to be xmas, here is a video I came across that talks about the magic chords used in a lot of xmas music. It also touches on the the fact that it's been quite some time since the last big xmas hits have been written. So, if you are looking to write the next xmas hit for the competition, you might find this video helpful or inspiring.

BUT, but the problem with that concept is that he gets BOTH chords wrong! Neither song uses the chord he says, and they both use different chords from each other! The chord in question in White Christmas is a 4min, not a 2 dim whatever, and with the Mariah song it's a b6 augmented. In the key of C, for White Christmas it's based on an Fmin, and with All I Want for Christmas is You it would be an Ab/Fmin. While they are similar, the bass note gives away the difference.

Not only that, but it's a very inconsequential chord in the overall arrangement, not the foundation of the song by any means. But don't let that stop anyone, knock yourselves out and have a very merry Christmas anyway!
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joeyluck
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03 Dec 2017

selig wrote:
03 Dec 2017
joeyluck wrote:
03 Dec 2017
For those participating... If the thought of winter inspires you to write about a holiday... and if that holiday happens to be xmas, here is a video I came across that talks about the magic chords used in a lot of xmas music. It also touches on the the fact that it's been quite some time since the last big xmas hits have been written. So, if you are looking to write the next xmas hit for the competition, you might find this video helpful or inspiring.

BUT, but the problem with that concept is that he gets BOTH chords wrong! Neither song uses the chord he says, and they both use different chords from each other! The chord in question in White Christmas is a 4min, not a 2 dim whatever, and with the Mariah song it's a b6 augmented. In the key of C, for White Christmas it's based on an Fmin, and with All I Want for Christmas is You it would be an Ab/Fmin. While they are similar, the bass note gives away the difference.

Not only that, but it's a very inconsequential chord in the overall arrangement, not the foundation of the song by any means. But don't let that stop anyone, knock yourselves out and have a very merry Christmas anyway!
I figured it's importance was up for interpretation and that he was just simplifying it for the average listener. In the article he said this: "The same chord is found, in a different key and inversion, in Irving Berlin’s White Christmas.”

But whatever, a greater takeaway and challenge might be how long it's been for a xmas song to be as big of a hit.

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pushedbutton
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03 Dec 2017

Selig you've saved my sanity again. I found that video a while ago and just thought I was not getting it.
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Puniho
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04 Dec 2017

A question regarding the no covers rule. How strict is this? I have quite an ambitious piece ive been working on that is loosly based on the traditional Holy Night. Its not a remix and the instrumentation and arrangement is entirely original.

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selig
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04 Dec 2017

joeyluck wrote:
03 Dec 2017

I figured it's importance was up for interpretation and that he was just simplifying it for the average listener. In the article he said this: "The same chord is found, in a different key and inversion, in Irving Berlin’s White Christmas.”

But whatever, a greater takeaway and challenge might be how long it's been for a xmas song to be as big of a hit.
But it's not the same chord, inversion or no inversion (and of course it's not the same key) - that's one of my points! But the other more important point IMO is that the chord in both songs plays a very small part of the song's appeal and "Christmas" feeling IMO.

Another example; in the Phil Spector album he references as being another "Christmas standard" (or words to that effect), this so-called "magic" chord never appears!

Fwiw, in White Christmas it's the classic IV iv I progression used by everyone from doo wop to Pink Floyd, from Radiohead to Beatles, Cole Porter to 10cc, and on and on.
Paul McCartney: going from C & F to Fm “the normal thing [to do]”
(Many Years From Now p122).
http://beatlessongwriting.blogspot.com/ ... chord.html

There's lots written about it online, so I won't reproduce it here!
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Puniho
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06 Dec 2017

Puniho wrote:
04 Dec 2017
A question regarding the no covers rule. How strict is this? I have quite an ambitious piece ive been working on that is loosly based on the traditional Holy Night. Its not a remix and the instrumentation and arrangement is entirely original.
Helloooooo......? Anybody there?

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Kenni
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06 Dec 2017

I would say "Strict".

If it's a different melody, different arrangement, different chords, but the lyrics are the same, it would be regarded as a remix rather than a cover. We want original content :)
Puniho wrote:
06 Dec 2017
Puniho wrote:
04 Dec 2017
A question regarding the no covers rule. How strict is this? I have quite an ambitious piece ive been working on that is loosly based on the traditional Holy Night. Its not a remix and the instrumentation and arrangement is entirely original.
Helloooooo......? Anybody there?
Kenni Andruszkow
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Zac
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06 Dec 2017

I haven't managed to do this before, ive always got caught up on something and refining and harmonising it or putting beats to it. I'm spewing creativity with no regard recently.

Just hope i can edit the highlights together. Never worked this way before.
https://circlingtheinevitable.bandcamp.com
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avasopht
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06 Dec 2017

If you bounce to track, you must leave the original note lane/device intact. This goes for VSTs as well
And what about if you get into some serious creative mangling, does every single step need to remain in the project?

I sometimes do this with two projects, especially when warping audio.
---

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Zac
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06 Dec 2017

I say save each major change as an iteration. But be free to bounce to audio with each iteration.

We need cpu.

Zac says logical progression.
https://circlingtheinevitable.bandcamp.com
'They said the cylinder looked bound for London'
'Hmm, Carrie...' /
'Finn, let me learn you something big, it's all a machine partner. Live free, don't join.'

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Puniho
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06 Dec 2017

Kenni wrote:
06 Dec 2017
I would say "Strict".

If it's a different melody, different arrangement, different chords, but the lyrics are the same, it would be regarded as a remix rather than a cover. We want original content :)
Puniho wrote:
06 Dec 2017


Helloooooo......? Anybody there?
Well, mt arrangement uses the basic chord structure - a major section followed by minor. But has no lyrics as such.

It will be interesting to hear the entries , with no reference to Chritmas. Lol

I would love to find the time to make something especially. Ive got the working title:

Dont Mention Christmas

;)

WongoTheSane
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06 Dec 2017

Puniho wrote:
06 Dec 2017
Kenni wrote:
06 Dec 2017
I would say "Strict".

If it's a different melody, different arrangement, different chords, but the lyrics are the same, it would be regarded as a remix rather than a cover. We want original content :)

Well, mt arrangement uses the basic chord structure - a major section followed by minor. But has no lyrics as such.

It will be interesting to hear the entries , with no reference to Chritmas. Lol

I would love to find the time to make something especially. Ive got the working title:

Dont Mention Christmas

;)
To be clear, it can't be a basic re-harmonization of a previous work, but using a principle or a structure (like for instance doing a common 12 bar blues, or alternate major and minor) is fair game. And you ARE allowed to reference Christmas, as it's a significant part of winter for a large part of the world! You're even allowed to not just reference, but go full Christmas as well!

I would love a Christmas song called "Don't mention Christmas"! If you could throw in John Cleese's voice (or Manuel's) in there as well... :lol:

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Puniho
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07 Dec 2017

WongoTheSane wrote:
06 Dec 2017
Puniho wrote:
06 Dec 2017


Well, mt arrangement uses the basic chord structure - a major section followed by minor. But has no lyrics as such.

It will be interesting to hear the entries , with no reference to Chritmas. Lol

I would love to find the time to make something especially. Ive got the working title:

Dont Mention Christmas

;)
To be clear, it can't be a basic re-harmonization of a previous work, but using a principle or a structure (like for instance doing a common 12 bar blues, or alternate major and minor) is fair game. And you ARE allowed to reference Christmas, as it's a significant part of winter for a large part of the world! You're even allowed to not just reference, but go full Christmas as well!

I would love a Christmas song called "Don't mention Christmas"! If you could throw in John Cleese's voice (or Manuel's) in there as well... :lol:
.

To add insult to injury, its not even winter here in the Antipodes! So its kind of difficult to get into the spirit of the thing! I sometimes marvel that in this era of globalisation, one particular side of the world seems to continue being blissfully unaware that the earth is in fact round! Lol! :D

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QVprod
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07 Dec 2017

Puniho wrote:
07 Dec 2017

To add insult to injury, its not even winter here in the Antipodes! So its kind of difficult to get into the spirit of the thing! I sometimes marvel that in this era of globalisation, one particular side of the world seems to continue being blissfully unaware that the earth is in fact round! Lol! :D
Actually... fun fact; None of the mods here are flat earthers. All things were considered that some places like Australia are not cold right now. , but for a large portion of the world it is indeed winter. However, many times songs written for seasons are written long before that season. If you were to write a Christmas song for say a television show, you would more than likely write it long before December.

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joeyluck
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07 Dec 2017

Puniho wrote:
07 Dec 2017
WongoTheSane wrote:
06 Dec 2017


To be clear, it can't be a basic re-harmonization of a previous work, but using a principle or a structure (like for instance doing a common 12 bar blues, or alternate major and minor) is fair game. And you ARE allowed to reference Christmas, as it's a significant part of winter for a large part of the world! You're even allowed to not just reference, but go full Christmas as well!

I would love a Christmas song called "Don't mention Christmas"! If you could throw in John Cleese's voice (or Manuel's) in there as well... :lol:
.

To add insult to injury, its not even winter here in the Antipodes! So its kind of difficult to get into the spirit of the thing! I sometimes marvel that in this era of globalisation, one particular side of the world seems to continue being blissfully unaware that the earth is in fact round! Lol! :D
Well while none of us are flat earthers, we did give it thought that not everybody celebrates xmas. But people can certainly still write a xmas song if that's what they associate with winter.

Also, it's not necessarily referring to "winter now" just "winter." In which case, it's not winter here yet. Winter where I am begins December 21. So even if I were to write about winter today, I would have to draw on inspiration from memory :)

It's like telling people to write a song about love, knowing that many of them aren't in love at the moment, but might have been at one point...or at least seen it in the movies. We also know that not everybody has a snowy winter, but maybe they've seen Game of Thrones. There's also the "winter olympics" where the world participates in games involving the same snow and ice climates and they attend and compete all at the same time regardless of when their winter is :)

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Noplan
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07 Dec 2017



To add insult to injury, its not even winter here in the Antipodes! So its kind of difficult to get into the spirit of the thing! I sometimes marvel that in this era of globalisation, one particular side of the world seems to continue being blissfully unaware that the earth is in fact round! Lol! :D
then put your nose in your freezer for some inspiration.

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selig
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07 Dec 2017

Puniho wrote:
WongoTheSane wrote:
06 Dec 2017
To be clear, it can't be a basic re-harmonization of a previous work, but using a principle or a structure (like for instance doing a common 12 bar blues, or alternate major and minor) is fair game. And you ARE allowed to reference Christmas, as it's a significant part of winter for a large part of the world! You're even allowed to not just reference, but go full Christmas as well!

I would love a Christmas song called "Don't mention Christmas"! If you could throw in John Cleese's voice (or Manuel's) in there as well... :lol:
.

To add insult to injury, its not even winter here in the Antipodes! So its kind of difficult to get into the spirit of the thing! I sometimes marvel that in this era of globalisation, one particular side of the world seems to continue being blissfully unaware that the earth is in fact round! Lol! :D
Every Christmas record I’ve worked on was recorded in the heat of summer. The solution? Decorate the studio and crank up the air conditioner! ;)



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Selig Audio, LLC

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Puniho
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07 Dec 2017

Thanks for the good natured replies! Its all good - i just have a warped sense of humour! :)

TritoneAddiction
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09 Dec 2017

Would be interesting to know how many are working on a winter track.

It feels a little weird since we usually are able to see submissions along the way till the deadline.
I'm just very curious of what music is being made right now :)

I'm about halfway through with mine.

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Zac
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09 Dec 2017

TritoneAddiction wrote:
09 Dec 2017
Would be interesting to know how many are working on a winter track.

It feels a little weird since we usually are able to see submissions along the way till the deadline.
I'm just very curious of what music is being made right now :)

I'm about halfway through with mine.
I know we've been given a lot of license but i am trying to bring out themes of what winter means to me. I'm just over a quarter of the way through with an ocean of possibilities from just jamming out.
https://circlingtheinevitable.bandcamp.com
'They said the cylinder looked bound for London'
'Hmm, Carrie...' /
'Finn, let me learn you something big, it's all a machine partner. Live free, don't join.'

strangers
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09 Dec 2017

Nearly done writing and arranging mine. It's snowing here so I'm taking full advantage of the weather to help stick within the theme. It's going to be tough to avoid posting the song and hearing what others came up with.

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Kenni
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09 Dec 2017

Great to see some feedback! I kind of figured people were checking the thread for submissions but that it was generally silent because people were busy writing! At least I hoped so, so that's good to see :)

I promise you the "secrecy" is all in favor for the voting system and the general mood we want to set for it!
Kenni Andruszkow
SoundCloud

strangers
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11 Dec 2017

Just to be clear...

What is the process/guidelines to be able to post our track on soundcloud or even on the forum (obviously not within this thread) or is that something we should hold off on until the contest is over? I read the original post but still not fully sure and don't want to knock myself out for a misunderstanding. Really looking to spread the winter themed cheer without causing issues.

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Zac
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11 Dec 2017

strangers wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Just to be clear...

What is the process/guidelines to be able to post our track on soundcloud or even on the forum (obviously not within this thread) or is that something we should hold off on until the contest is over? I read the original post but still not fully sure and don't want to knock myself out for a misunderstanding. Really looking to spread the winter themed cheer without causing issues.
Sorry i can't answer your question but happy to hear you are ready to post it. I reworked my whole thing today and I'm much happier with it, even if it's only 2+ mins worth.
https://circlingtheinevitable.bandcamp.com
'They said the cylinder looked bound for London'
'Hmm, Carrie...' /
'Finn, let me learn you something big, it's all a machine partner. Live free, don't join.'

strangers
Posts: 280
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11 Dec 2017

Zac wrote:
11 Dec 2017
strangers wrote:
11 Dec 2017
Just to be clear...

What is the process/guidelines to be able to post our track on soundcloud or even on the forum (obviously not within this thread) or is that something we should hold off on until the contest is over? I read the original post but still not fully sure and don't want to knock myself out for a misunderstanding. Really looking to spread the winter themed cheer without causing issues.
Sorry i can't answer your question but happy to hear you are ready to post it. I reworked my whole thing today and I'm much happier with it, even if it's only 2+ mins worth.
I still have to finalize the mix and master it, so it's not quite ready for posting just yet. Got a little ahead of myself. I wanted to cover any ground so when it's ready I'm not stumbling around trying to figure out where I can and can't post the track. Interested to hear what you've come up with. This whole silent treatment of not knowing what anyone else has in store is a really interesting way of working.

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