Reason 1.0 vs 10.0 - visual comparison

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madmacman
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Post 04 Dec 2017

esselfortium wrote:
04 Dec 2017
madmacman wrote:
04 Dec 2017


Got it! It only works if you are in single-window mode. But I usually work with separate windows for Rack/Mixer/Seq distributed over multiple desktops. And then the click doesn't work. :(
That's what I had thought as well, but I just tested it with the sequencer, rack, and mixer all split off to separate windows and it still worked. I'm running Reason 10 on Mac OS Sierra, fwiw.
Thanks for helping out to investigate! :thumbs_up: :)

I think we come closer: It works the same way if in single mode or detached windows. BUT not as I expected. When clicking the seq. track it highlights the related rows in the other windows, but it doesn't switch to them (which seems logical, since Reason can't decide if Rack or Mixer is wanted). If I place all detached windows into a single desktop and click I can watch the other windows highlighting.

But I think I'd prefer (and I suppose antic604 means the same) the button behavior in the mixer, where I can push a button to jump to either Rack, or Sequencer.

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esselfortium
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Post 04 Dec 2017

madmacman wrote:
04 Dec 2017
esselfortium wrote:
04 Dec 2017


That's what I had thought as well, but I just tested it with the sequencer, rack, and mixer all split off to separate windows and it still worked. I'm running Reason 10 on Mac OS Sierra, fwiw.
Thanks for helping out to investigate! :thumbs_up: :)

I think we come closer: It works the same way if in single mode or detached windows. BUT not as I expected. When clicking the seq. track it highlights the related rows in the other windows, but it doesn't switch to them (which seems logical, since Reason can't decide if Rack or Mixer is wanted). If I place all detached windows into a single desktop and click I can watch the other windows highlighting.

But I think I'd prefer (and I suppose antic604 means the same) the button behavior in the mixer, where I can push a button to jump to either Rack, or Sequencer.
I'm glad the behavior is the way it is now, I think if Reason automatically switched to another window every time I tried clicking near a sequencer track I would throw my computer through a window :lol:

antic604

Post 04 Dec 2017

madmacman wrote:
04 Dec 2017
But I think I'd prefer (and I suppose antic604 means the same) the button behavior in the mixer, where I can push a button to jump to either Rack, or Sequencer.
Yes, it should just behave logically - if you double click the device icon, it should go to the Rack; you you double click on somewhere else on the channel header, you go to the mixer.

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EnochLight
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Post 04 Dec 2017

esselfortium wrote:
04 Dec 2017
I'm glad the behavior is the way it is now, I think if Reason automatically switched to another window every time I tried clicking near a sequencer track I would throw my computer through a window :lol:
Agreed. How it currently works is the most logical behavior as far as I can tell.
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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Psuper
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Post 04 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
04 Dec 2017
esselfortium wrote:
04 Dec 2017
I'm glad the behavior is the way it is now, I think if Reason automatically switched to another window every time I tried clicking near a sequencer track I would throw my computer through a window :lol:
Agreed. How it currently works is the most logical behavior as far as I can tell.
It works, and logical but not efficient. Efficient would be when you Alt/Ctr/Shift + the sequencer device it performs that action of focusing on the Rack window and highlighting. Otherwise the same.

At one time I was trying to get VirtualWin and the G13 to do a similar function but didn't feel like putting the time in I already had a workflow - crippled as Reason is for 1080p and below, but a workflow nonetheless.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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EnochLight
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Post 04 Dec 2017

Psuper wrote:
04 Dec 2017
It works, and logical but not efficient. Efficient would be when you Alt/Ctr/Shift + the sequencer device it performs that action of focusing on the Rack window and highlighting. Otherwise the same.

At one time I was trying to get VirtualWin and the G13 to do a similar function but didn't feel like putting the time in I already had a workflow - crippled as Reason is for 1080p and below, but a workflow nonetheless.
I can't stand 3+click key combos, but indeed this would be cool. Crippled for 1080p? You're hilarious! :lol:
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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Psuper
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Post 04 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
04 Dec 2017
Psuper wrote:
04 Dec 2017
It works, and logical but not efficient. Efficient would be when you Alt/Ctr/Shift + the sequencer device it performs that action of focusing on the Rack window and highlighting. Otherwise the same.

At one time I was trying to get VirtualWin and the G13 to do a similar function but didn't feel like putting the time in I already had a workflow - crippled as Reason is for 1080p and below, but a workflow nonetheless.
I can't stand 3+click key combos, but indeed this would be cool. Crippled for 1080p? You're hilarious! :lol:
I was only using the / as a divider example, which ever made the most sense (and should be bindable). Alt + Click is all it needs, I too hate 3 click combos.

I urge you to spend just one week in a single 1080p monitor and report back. :)
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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esselfortium
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Post 04 Dec 2017

Psuper wrote:
04 Dec 2017
I urge you to spend just one week in a single 1080p monitor and report back. :)
*waves* I do all my work on a single 1080p monitor.

It took me some getting used to after it became a three-view setup with the SSL mixer added, because it was so different from my old setup, but it's perfectly functional. I keep everything in a single window, which made a surprisingly big difference for usability.

Double-clicking on the mixer/rack/sequencer headers to maximize them is a good shortcut for navigating around, and I also make a lot of use of the keyboard shortcuts to pop open the browser (F3), EQ (F2), and tool window (F8). There are probably ways it could still be optimized further but it doesn't feel constraining to me at all.

EdGrip
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Post 04 Dec 2017

Again, I have a gaming mouse (I'm not a gamer, but there's no law against it) with a button each for rack, mixer and sequencer under my thumb. It basically makes switching to the relevant window as simple as thinking it. It's a ridiculously simple boost to efficiency.
There are other buttons with other common functions too.
If I just use the laptop track pad, it's like walking in treacle.

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Psuper
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Post 04 Dec 2017

Oh I do the same, but with a G13 and a couple other goodies on occasion (glovepie, ahk, couple others depending on what I'm working with) to accomplish things as efficiently as possible in Reason. I use the G13 almost exclusively during the mixing/mastering process and spent enough time there through the years. It's not about familiarity Ive had Reason since version 3 and never felt the room to work efficiently was 'enough', far from it.

Hey if you single monitor 1080p and lower guys love or at least accept it, more power to you ( I remember the 1024x768 guys saying the same, just nuts. 1080p is genuinely fine for some depending on their needs, 1024 was hell). I've said my peace over the years to move Reason out of the stone age and get packing some features and make a limited workspace efficient. It hasn't *really* affected me since 1440p, still would like more room with that setup though.

Since I'm onto 4k and not going back (for DAWs), it won't affect me at all in the working room compartment. Brings new challenges, but the open wide benefits outweigh the cramp...

...just for me of course, I'm the only CR :crazy: ZY guy who ever needed more space to compose apparently!
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

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EnochLight
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Post 04 Dec 2017

Psuper wrote:
04 Dec 2017
...just for me of course, I'm the only CR :crazy: ZY guy who ever needed more space to compose apparently!
Well, we all like to think we're special. ;) :lol: :lol:

Doing dual 1080p panels (technically, they're 1920 x 1200) like I've been on for the better part of a decade is pretty much like having one large wide-aspect 3840 x 2400 panel - separated by bezels. In a way, I've been on a 4K-ish panel for over a decade. :D It really is super awesome, BTW.

While messing around with the 40" 4K panel from the den, I found that I still wanted to put my windows side-by-side on screen, essentially mimicking the setup I have already. It was a little weird. I think if I do this, I might go with dual 4K panels that are a bit smaller than 40"...

...or maybe I should just go with one big ass 75" 4K panel instead? :lol: :thumbs_up: :?
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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Psuper
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Post 04 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
04 Dec 2017
Psuper wrote:
04 Dec 2017
...just for me of course, I'm the only CR :crazy: ZY guy who ever needed more space to compose apparently!
Well, we all like to think we're special. ;) :lol: :lol:

Doing dual 1080p panels (technically, they're 1920 x 1200) like I've been on for the better part of a decade is pretty much like having one large wide-aspect 3840 x 2400 panel - separated by bezels. In a way, I've been on a 4K-ish panel for over a decade. :D It really is super awesome, BTW.

While messing around with the 40" 4K panel from the den, I found that I still wanted to put my windows side-by-side on screen, essentially mimicking the setup I have already. It was a little weird. I think if I do this, I might go with dual 4K panels that are a bit smaller than 40"...

...or maybe I should just go with one big ass 75" 4K panel instead? :lol: :thumbs_up: :?
I love 2 monitors and find them immensely useful for most things related to work, but hate them for anything to do with play (music, gaming, anything 'fun' to me). I had a dual setup with the portrait mode rack and it looks pretty epic, but useless as hell for me to actually get shit done. Dont get me wrong - Reason is extremely photogenic, always looks good. But putting that badboy to some serious streamlined work - painful.

I'm gonna have plenty of real estate with the 40" and viewing distance is a huge consideration, I'm planning on it being about 3' away centered, which will give me no viewing issues. The most important thing, assuming you don't already know, is to get 4-4-4 chroma if you are going with a TV - that's the only 'stat' that really matters or your screen will suffer from nasty compression artifacts.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

EdGrip
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Post 05 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
04 Dec 2017
(technically, they're 1920 x 1200)
(16:10, the best screen ratio)

antic604

Post 05 Dec 2017

EnochLight wrote:
04 Dec 2017
esselfortium wrote:
04 Dec 2017
I'm glad the behavior is the way it is now, I think if Reason automatically switched to another window every time I tried clicking near a sequencer track I would throw my computer through a window :lol:
Agreed. How it currently works is the most logical behavior as far as I can tell.
Disagreed, because it is logical only if you have 2+ screens.

Reason should be able to detect user is on 1 screen and uses full-screen sequencer. Then double-clicking the device thumbnail should open the rack & scroll to the appropriate device, while double-clicking on empty space in channel header should open the mixer at the relevant channel. This is really basic stuff, but I'm sure devs don't see it because they all work on multi-screen setups, with several controllers, etc.

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EnochLight
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Post 05 Dec 2017

antic604 wrote:
05 Dec 2017
EnochLight wrote:
04 Dec 2017


Agreed. How it currently works is the most logical behavior as far as I can tell.
Disagreed, because it is logical only if you have 2+ screens.
I have 2 screens, so yeah - it's pretty logical from where I sit. :D
antic604 wrote:
05 Dec 2017
Reason should be able to detect user is on 1 screen and uses full-screen sequencer.
You mean like this?



That's on a 1920 x 1080 panel (currently in my office). I can honestly say, if I didn't have dual-screens at my home workstation, working like the above video doesn't seem terrible, IMHO. I can go fullscreen with each view if needed, or split screen as needed.
antic604 wrote:
05 Dec 2017
Then double-clicking the device thumbnail should open the rack & scroll to the appropriate device, while double-clicking on empty space in channel header should open the mixer at the relevant channel. This is really basic stuff, but I'm sure devs don't see it because they all work on multi-screen setups, with several controllers, etc.
Right now, if you are full-screen in the sequencer, if you click a device thumbnail, it gets MIDI focus so you can work on it. If you need it to show the device in the rack or mixer - you're not full screen. You need to see the place it's going to, which it does just that if you pull down whatever window you want focus on. How should Reason know if you want the rack device to show or the mixer channel to show when you're full screen in the sequencer? I like how it is now, in which I can pull whatever screen I want in focus instead. My choice.

Like so:

Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

antic604

Post 05 Dec 2017

@EnochLight

I don't think you read my post - I was talking about DOUBLE-clicking and on very specific areas, to get specific results.

Sure, it's possible ("not terrible") to work like you show on a small, high-res single screen (Surface Pro 4), but:

- it's not feasible to work with 2+ areas on screen at the same time, when you consider it's a 12'' screen; as I proposed in the middle of 3rd page, I'd love to be able to combine Rack & Mixer side-by-side on one screen, since both are vertical anyway,

- flicking between the 3 areas with F5-7 (your 1st video) is fine and that's my current workflow, but it's not context sensitive - you have to double-click in Sequencer, for the Rack and Mixer to move (behind the scenes) to relevant device & track, then you have to hit F5 or F6 to get there; so why not cut the middleman and do as I proposed: double-clicking on device icon takes you to the device, double-clicking the track header takes you to relevant channel in the mixer - it's pretty logical (device -> rack, channel -> mixer)

- even if say Sequencer is maximised, there's still a lot of wasted space: huge transport bar at the bottom, 3 quite thick dividers/bars for Sequencer / Rack / Mixer, the header at the top of Sequencer (where tool icons, beat grid, blocks' headers are) is twice the size it needs to be, unhideable Windows bar at the top - all this eats into the very valuable vertical space on small screen;

scratchnsnifff
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Post 05 Dec 2017

dustiraw wrote:
25 Nov 2017
I guess i'm one of the only users here that thinks reason is still as visually stunning as it's always been. The fact that the instruments and devices need an "overhaul" to me makes no sense since the devices themselves have not been updated in recent times. I feel like they are more concerned about upgrading the actual interface itself instead of the classic devices just for the fact that they are classic. If they were to add updates to the devices and instruments themselves an updated GUI would be great but they would also need to make other updates as well. IMO updating the GUI makes it new again, no longer being that classic piece of gear. IDK i guess im just looking at it from a hardware lovers point of view that would hate if I came back to the studio with my hardware "updated" visually with no new bells and whistles that update it to modern times.
Makes sense, and probably why they haven’t done anything to the UI. All of Reason is a path of nostalgia to the props, at least that’s why I think they haven’t tried “modernizing” the UI I would love it if the devices/graphics of Reason looked like that subtractor rendering. I don’t think the devices would have to have any additions even though they are welcome. At least Thor. I can see why they would leave malstrom and subtractor alone. But what about what FL studio did. Didn’t they get a pretty big UI update recently? And does anyone know if the devices stayed the same feature wise?
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

mark999
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Post 05 Dec 2017

Propellerheads should do the following:

1) update all of Reason to high resolution
2) make the rack and devices scalable/zoomable/vector
3) start selling device skins in the prop shop. For example, want to replace the ugly poo brown NNXT skin? Head over to the prop shop and buy a nice skin for a couple of euros... the overall layout of the devices should not change, only their color/skin.

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EnochLight
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Post 05 Dec 2017

For the devices that they have allowed skinning of in the past, it's always been free (this goes back to the old ReBirth days in which skinning/mods were not only free, but encouraged). If they did what you suggested, especially after the years it took (in your hypothetical example) to modernize Reason's GUI/UX, I can only imagine that charging for skins would enrage the customers. Make it free, though, and now we're talking!

Though I shudder to think at some of the skins that would appear. There's a blossoming 3rd party skin market for Vengeance Sound's VPS Avenger, and most of the skins that are available are... eh.. pretty bad. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

mark999
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Post 05 Dec 2017

I would only want Propellerhead made skins in the shop. Skinning should not be available to third parties because we would see a bunch of disgusting skins emerge, in the same way many ugly rack extensions have emerged.

I’m especially picky about the native device colors.
Subtractor is the wrong shade of blue. Either lighter or darker would be much nicer. NNXT is poo brown. Redrum is an ugly brown mixed with spinach. RPG8 is yet another pukey brown.

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EnochLight
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Post 05 Dec 2017

antic604 wrote:
05 Dec 2017
@EnochLight

I don't think you read my post - I was talking about DOUBLE-clicking and on very specific areas, to get specific results.
I read your post, and thought I explained my point with the help of the screen caps. I didn't know you were working with small 13" monitors - that wasn't mentioned in your original response to me. Sorry if this was lost in translation! :)

Anyway, I get what you're saying, but your suggestion still doesn't address the point I brought up: How is Reason to know which view you want pulled into focus? Mixer or rack? But yeah, if you're on a screen as small as you describe, your only real solution is going to be to stay full-screen, if working split-screen is too small anyway.

I hope people don't misunderstand - I agree the way it's handled now certainly isn't perfect. Perhaps it can be improved. But after 5 major version releases (6-10) and no change to how it's handled, I'm afraid this is how it will likely remain for the interim.
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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EnochLight
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Post 05 Dec 2017

mark999 wrote:
05 Dec 2017
I would only want Propellerhead made skins in the shop. Skinning should not be available to third parties because we would see a bunch of disgusting skins emerge, in the same way many ugly rack extensions have emerged.
And you don't feel that selling Propellerhead-designed skin options in the shop wouldn't bring down the fire and brimstone ire of the their user base who thinks skins should be free and open to all? I'm just playing devil's advocate, as skinning has always been free since Reason began limited support with the Combinator....
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

EdGrip
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Post 05 Dec 2017

Paying for device skins sounds daft. Pimp My DAW.

mark999
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Post 05 Dec 2017

If I had the option of having a typical amateur ugly third-party skin for free, or paying 2 euros for an 'official' skin that I knew was supporting Propellerheads, then I would pick the second option.

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EnochLight
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Post 05 Dec 2017

mark999 wrote:
05 Dec 2017
If I had the option of having a typical amateur ugly third-party skin for free, or paying 2 euros for an 'official' skin that I knew was supporting Propellerheads, then I would pick the second option.
Well, taking into consideration you said this:
Subtractor is the wrong shade of blue. Either lighter or darker would be much nicer. NNXT is poo brown. Redrum is an ugly brown mixed with spinach. RPG8 is yet another pukey brown.
...letting an open source community of fans design skins might not be a bad choice! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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