MClass Compressor vs Rack Extension Compressors

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mark999
Posts: 67
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

20 Nov 2017

Hi everyone,

Lately I’ve been trialing a lot of compressors in the propellerhead shop, many have pretty graphics, but one thing that bothers me is that none of them seem to make ANY real difference compared to the MClass compressor.

For example, I’ve just spend several hours comparing the Cakewalk CA-2A compressor to the MClass, and when I dial in similar settings, they sound identical. The cakewalk one costs €79 and looks pretty, so my mind wants to think it sounds better, but the rational side of me knows that it’s just sounds the same. I’ve had the same experience with Softube compressors, McDSP compressors, etc... they just don’t make any difference.
I’m not using super expensive studio monitors, and neither are my listeners, so I don’t want to use that as an excuse for not hearing the difference. In the end, if something sounds good, I should be able to hear it in an A-B comparison.

In Cakewalk’s promo video, they don’t compare the CA-2A with the MClass either, and bypassing the effect doesn’t sell it for me, I want to hear how it sounds BETTER than the free Mclass.

Does anyone have any material they could show me where you can distinctly HEAR how the any of the rack extension compressors sound better than the Mclass?

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1423
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20 Nov 2017

Sounds like you need some OTT in your life lol xfer records has a free vst that does the upward/downwards compression. As far as I know the appeal to OTT is that you are able to have a 3band multiband compressor setup where you get to squeeze/boost the bajesus out of the mids and highs which makes less prominent frequencies more prominent. If you have serum, I like to use “serum FX” As my OTT source. And as far as REs splex is my favorite. It can achieve the OTT sort of sound and at $30 it’s not that expensive. Your OP makes a good point about thinking something sounds good because it looks fancy and how most don’t consume music on mid grade-high grade sound systems lol most just listen to music on their phones nowadays
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TritoneAddiction
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20 Nov 2017

If you can get the same results with MClass then good for you. No need to buy more stuff.

But personally I couldn't disagree more. I get way better or different results by using FRG-4RE, CA-2A, FET. All of them has their place depending on the material they are used on. MClass has its place in some instances too, but there's not a chance that I'm using only that one with the other compressors available in my rack.

But as always just use whatever works for you. There's been so many times I've disagreed with other people. Lots of people have praised the Mace compressor for example. I tried it and I hated it. I just couldn't get a sound I liked from it no matter how I tweaked it. Compare that to loading up FRG-4RE and I get great results within the first 10-20 seconds.

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normen
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20 Nov 2017

None of them sound "better". If you don't hear a difference then you obviously don't need any other compressors. There is no device that you turn on and it will magically sound "better".

They are all tools to achieve a certain thing, while you use a tool you realize "oh, this could be different" or "oh, for this application this specific tool isn't really suited" and then you take another tool. If you just throw the tool at the problem and watch how it bounces off you won't learn much about it.

For me, I like to have many different compressors mainly because they all work quite differently in the attack phase. Its not just "attack time", theres the curve, how many dBs per time, how it reacts to peaks vs. constant input etc. etc. Of course the release phase etc. is also very important but research found that especially the attack of a compressor is something that triggers psychoacoustic effects because the ear also has a kind of limiter built in. Meaning a compressor can fool the brain into thinking that the sound is so loud that the ear already "limits". Which might also be why different people like different kinds of compression.

mark999
Posts: 67
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

20 Nov 2017

Compressor plugin developers often use words like, "silky, smooth, authentic, legendary" etc etc, which which is why I expect to hear a difference between the Mclass and more expensive plugins. I mean, if something is SO GREAT, and so silky, and so smooth, and so legendary, it should be able to immediately hear the difference. When you touch rough concrete with your hands, then you touch pure silk, you can feel the difference. Perhaps the problem is that in the audio world, things that are barely audible are described with exaggerated claims to justify the cost. And a lot of people fall for placebo and start hearing things that are not there.

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Loque
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20 Nov 2017

You may need some experience with hearing and dialing in compressors, than you may get some differences. The best "Aha!" effect i ever had was on FET with full dial in settings. Since than i first give a compressor the maximum settings to get the sound he is producing. Than i try softer settings. Some compressors are very clean, some other are faster in response, some color the sound, some have aggressive attacks and releases and so on. If you dont hear any difference, you dont need a new compressor.
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normen
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20 Nov 2017

mark999 wrote:
20 Nov 2017
Compressor plugin developers often use words like, "silky, smooth, authentic, legendary" etc etc, which which is why I expect to hear a difference between the Mclass and more expensive plugins. I mean, if something is SO GREAT, and so silky, and so smooth, and so legendary, it should be able to immediately hear the difference. When you touch rough concrete with your hands, then you touch pure silk, you can feel the difference. Perhaps the problem is that in the audio world, things that are barely audible are described with exaggerated claims to justify the cost. And a lot of people fall for placebo and start hearing things that are not there.
Definitely. Theres whole companies that are based on audio lies :) Thing is if you spend 3000€ on a device then even if it just sounds DIFFERENT you will say that it sounds BETTER.

Reason standalone with a Behringer audio interface is _objectively_ (noise, accuracy, everything) better than everything all audio engineers in history had until even the 90s.

sdst
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20 Nov 2017

I notice a big difference

the counterparts REs of the MClass are better, with more cpu yes

the MClass is a gem from the past

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selig
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20 Nov 2017

Besides the excellent comments above, I'll add this:
Looking at your example specifically, the original LA-2a was known for bass and vocals mainly. It's also known for being able to apply more gain reduction before sounding "compressed", and for adding a likable "color" when pushed. Besides that, I've not heard many rave about this compressor.

So I would say to compare any LA-2a clone based on how it works for bass/vocals, how far it can be pushed, and how you like any added 'color' when compared to other compressors.

Also note that compressors are not known for having the same setting ranges - to actually get them set the same is sometimes difficult if not impossible due to different attack/release curves (ms per dB rates) and often due to lack of matching parameters on both. For example, how do you match the attack/release on compressors that don't have attack/release settings like the LA-2a style compressors, or match threshold on an 1176 style compressor, or the soft knee setting of a DBX style compressor.

Like many things, the best way to hear differences (if there are any) is to exaggerate the effect so it's easier to hear. And one way to compare compressors after setting all parameters as close as possible, is to be sure you're getting similar amounts of gain reduction on both devices, and to match the output gain by peak/VU meters to make sure the levels AND crest factor are as close as possible (for a fair comparison).

In the end I agree with the above - if you can't hear a difference, then stick with what you know (and what is free!).
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Marco Raaphorst
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20 Nov 2017

mark999 wrote:
20 Nov 2017
Hi everyone,

Lately I’ve been trialing a lot of compressors in the propellerhead shop, many have pretty graphics, but one thing that bothers me is that none of them seem to make ANY real difference compared to the MClass compressor.

For example, I’ve just spend several hours comparing the Cakewalk CA-2A compressor to the MClass, and when I dial in similar settings, they sound identical. The cakewalk one costs €79 and looks pretty, so my mind wants to think it sounds better, but the rational side of me knows that it’s just sounds the same. I’ve had the same experience with Softube compressors, McDSP compressors, etc... they just don’t make any difference.
I’m not using super expensive studio monitors, and neither are my listeners, so I don’t want to use that as an excuse for not hearing the difference. In the end, if something sounds good, I should be able to hear it in an A-B comparison.

In Cakewalk’s promo video, they don’t compare the CA-2A with the MClass either, and bypassing the effect doesn’t sell it for me, I want to hear how it sounds BETTER than the free Mclass.

Does anyone have any material they could show me where you can distinctly HEAR how the any of the rack extension compressors sound better than the Mclass?
You mean the RE-2A? That has a sound which is really something you can't find in another compressor.

McDSP Moo can do super slow attack and release. Like a Fader. MClass is not able to do that.

MClass is cool too. But totally different.

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syncanonymous
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20 Nov 2017

For me, it really depends upon context. If you are tracking or comparing single tracks you aren't going to be blown away by subtle differences unless you have good monitoring and audio interface. Even so, you will need some experience understanding what you are listening for when auditioning single sounds. Use different compressors in a mix and differences will jump out at you. Mono sources like bass and single mic'd instruments like separate drums and vocals get immediate help ime.

That LA-2a RE is really subtle IMO. Try the Fxpansion DCAM or the Softube FET, these are my current faves.

I usually track with MClass if my source is weak and needs help, especially with mono sources like bass that might need that limiting effect normen is talking about. Then, when I get to mixing I try the SSL comp against the MClass and no compression. Often, I find the SSL console comp better than MClass. Then continue mixing the other instruments. Then I will try other comps for things that need to feature in the mix. Inevitably, I am going with Softube FET on main bass in the end. Sometimes, the DCAM is better for low end. Usually I use DCAM on feature sounds, though. I haven't found a reason to use the LA-2a, yet...but I seldom, if ever, have vocals. I find it not best practice to use the "higher end" comps on every channel, it is like combinations in cooking good food; it's probably not a good idea put a tablespoon of cinamon in every recipe. Choose wisely :-)
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moalla
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20 Nov 2017

My experience with compression and how it sounds, the mclass compressor is not the fastest, but itś okay for most usage. But for outstanding usage for especially needs, a C1-L1 Compressor gives you much more tonal adjustment for your sounds, also limiting options. The Softube FET iss faster and gives a little bit more punch, but to hear the difference you need better monitor speakers, cause i would say, the only big difference i could hear, that the mclass sounds thiner in the mid band . Iḿ also interested how different a c670 sounds, but at the end there is no real difference!?
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NekujaK
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20 Nov 2017

mark999 wrote:
20 Nov 2017
I want to hear how it sounds BETTER than the free Mclass.
BETTER is a subjective term. Yes, there are certain qualities and audio characteristics that people (and by "people" I mean audio geeks and producer/engineer types) like to have in a compressor, such as transparency, "glue", "silkiness", and various other vague terms that get thrown around, but ultimately, it boils down to what YOU like for YOUR music.

And more importantly, your fans and listeners aren't going to care one bit about what compressor you use, and wouldn't be able to discern the difference anyway. We producers/engineers often get so obsessed with minute little audio details that really have no significant impact on the final listening experience. Would the Beatles have been any less successful if they recorded on different gear? I think not.

Ultimately, you should use the gear that works best for you. Sometimes that means whatever's free and easily accessible, sometimes it means whatever gets results the easiest, or whatever's most familiar to you, and other times it means upgrading to something that clearly sounds better to you. I have dozens of compressors in my arsenal, and yet, when I'm in a mix, I always reach for my old standbys (Softube FET, IK Black 76, Waves API 2500). For me, the FET and 76 are just so easy to use and always sound great, while the API is very musical to my ears, and is extremely versatile and tweakable.

If you are able to achieve the sound you want with the MClass, especially after comparing it to other compressors, then there's no compelling reason to stop using it.
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jlgrimes
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

20 Nov 2017

mark999 wrote:
20 Nov 2017
Hi everyone,

Lately I’ve been trialing a lot of compressors in the propellerhead shop, many have pretty graphics, but one thing that bothers me is that none of them seem to make ANY real difference compared to the MClass compressor.

For example, I’ve just spend several hours comparing the Cakewalk CA-2A compressor to the MClass, and when I dial in similar settings, they sound identical. The cakewalk one costs €79 and looks pretty, so my mind wants to think it sounds better, but the rational side of me knows that it’s just sounds the same. I’ve had the same experience with Softube compressors, McDSP compressors, etc... they just don’t make any difference.
I’m not using super expensive studio monitors, and neither are my listeners, so I don’t want to use that as an excuse for not hearing the difference. In the end, if something sounds good, I should be able to hear it in an A-B comparison.

In Cakewalk’s promo video, they don’t compare the CA-2A with the MClass either, and bypassing the effect doesn’t sell it for me, I want to hear how it sounds BETTER than the free Mclass.

Does anyone have any material they could show me where you can distinctly HEAR how the any of the rack extension compressors sound better than the Mclass?
I would think those two compressors are pretty different.

CL2A is a tube optical (LA2a) design which is suited for smooth vocals/bass. Usually with a LA2A you can compress vocals pretty heavily without them sounding “awful”. Also it is a two knob compressor so it is about the most simple compressor to operate.


Mclass is probably most likely modeled somewhat off of a generic VCA type compressor. Designed more for handling a wide variety of sources and being able to adjust settings with minimal coloration. You can probably use the MClass to get “close” to many compressors, but coloration won’t be its strong point.

Usually as with analog synth emulations, it can be hard to tell difference at “typical” settings. Crank up gain on CL2A. Turn peak reduction all the way up. Turn limit switch on. Try to make Mclass match those settings.

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FLVZ
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20 Nov 2017

Different compressors come with different features and different artifacts at extreme settings. The primary goal when I'm choosing a compressor is how fast can I achieve what I want. This is where you see compressors like RE2A getting a lot of usage for things like bass and vocals because they dont break your creative thought by being over technical during a time when ideas are flowing.

I use RE2A for Piano & Guitars as well when I want to add body (sustain) to the sound, or I want to do the opposite and make the initial transient pop out.

I use the C1L1 for drums because it is a colourful compressor, it has a character in the sound (comes with on board saturation), but also its one of the fastest RE compressors on the market. The Mclass compressor doesn't come close when it comes to speed (especially when you adjust setting on the back of the C1L1). The C1L1 also has a built in soft clipper which the mclass compressor does not, and the C1L1 soft clipper works differently to the mclass maximiser softclip setting.

The Soft TubeTech compressor handles the signal differently compared to the mclass compressor. It sounds more transparent and results in a better stereo image, the high end frequencies also seem to come through better than with the mclass compressor.

I use the mclass compressor in almost every project though, its the best all rounder for cpu usage and simple results. Compressors like the C1L1 and RE2A have to be used with caution because they colour the sound so if you were to stick these on a mix or master channel all your hardwork could be unraveled if you didn't immediately understand how the colouration occurs.

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demt
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20 Nov 2017

user compresser adjust equalizer reradjust compresser not in the main mix
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Mr. Watts
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20 Nov 2017

I agree that it can be hard at times to distinguish differences between compressors, especially since they all somewhat do the same thing. It's easiest to tell the differences when the compressor settings are pushed, but with light and more moderate corrective settings it can be almost impossible to detect. I think that any compressor on the market can be proven as more valuable to your workflow than the Mclass, if it allows you to find that "sweet spot" more quickly and effortlessly, even if you can't determine if it sounds "better". But a lot of times, I don't think you should be hearing much difference between compressors unless you are using it as a creative fx. I currently have 10 different compressors not including the Mclass, and for most occasions I tend to reach for the FRG-4RE by MCdsp. This compressor without a doubt is more useful to me than the Mclass due to its ease of use and extremely natural sound. I think that coming from strictly using the Mclass compressor, this could be a good compressor to try. All of the controls will be familiar to you and this particular compressor is one that can be called upon for many different occasions. The great thing is though, that you don't need to buy any new compressor, especially if you feel the Mclass is just as good as the others on the market. I bought the MCdsp compressor bundle for $49 last black friday and don't regret it one bit, although I do tend to use the FRG the most frequently.

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devilfish
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20 Nov 2017

RE-2A vs. MClass??? Really no difference??

You should not use compressors!! :D

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BRIGGS
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20 Nov 2017

Try Rough Rider...thickening up FSB rex loops is too much fun!
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Mr. Watts
Posts: 136
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20 Nov 2017

+1 for Rough Rider, I trialed recently to play an .rns file that used one. Ended up playing around with it and am now finding myself wishing I had it. Will keep an eye out on BF.

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Marco Raaphorst
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20 Nov 2017

Mr. Watts wrote:
20 Nov 2017
+1 for Rough Rider, I trialed recently to play an .rns file that used one. Ended up playing around with it and am now finding myself wishing I had it. Will keep an eye out on BF.
it's a free plugin: https://www.audiodamage.com/pages/free-downloads

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Aosta
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20 Nov 2017

What about the SSL compressor? I use it on every track.
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amcjen
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21 Nov 2017

moalla wrote:My experience with compression and how it sounds, the mclass compressor is not the fastest, but itś okay for most usage. But for outstanding usage for especially needs, a C1-L1 Compressor gives you much more tonal adjustment for your sounds, also limiting options. The Softube FET iss faster and gives a little bit more punch, but to hear the difference you need better monitor speakers, cause i would say, the only big difference i could hear, that the mclass sounds thiner in the mid band . Iḿ also interested how different a c670 sounds, but at the end there is no real difference!?
Just had to chime in here and comment that I absolutely love the C1-L1. It’s my fave goto, with the FET a close second. Was surprised it wasn’t mentioned earlier!

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Loque
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21 Nov 2017

Yes, the C1-L1 is one of the best. But you dont need to pay for it, because it based on the Molot compressor and this one is free:
https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/molot/
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amcjen
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21 Nov 2017

Loque wrote:Yes, the C1-L1 is one of the best. But you dont need to pay for it, because it based on the Molot compressor and this one is free:
https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/molot/
I got C1-L1 way before VST support was available but great to know there is an available free version for those on the fence about it now. [emoji106]

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