Quantizing CV To Range Of Notes

[Goodbye]

Untitled-2-01.jpg (216.61 KiB) Viewed 4912 times

I've spent a good while trying to hack something like this together and today I admit defeat. It feels like this should be doable, but I've not had any success. I'm looking to take a variable CV signal and map it across a set of notes. There are a number of REs that do offer some form of quantizing, but in all cases it is a very limited kind.

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/psq-1684/
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/kron/
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... -recorder/
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/cv-tuner/

They all take the same rudimentary approach - they allow you to pick a scale and then quantize all notes to that scale. The problem there is that using a scale means there is no variation between octaves. If we take C minor for example:

- C
- D
- E♭
- F
- G
- A
- B♭

All the devices listed will map note values (or CV signals) to these notes across all octaves. What I am looking for is the ability to select a range of notes across a range of octaves and have the CV signal mapped across those notes, for example:

Octave 1
- C
- E♭
- G
Octave 2
- C
- F
- G
- B♭
Octave 3
- D
- E♭

The reason I want this is because it overs much more flexibility when making generative music, allowing a much finer-grained control over melody.

Can anyone think of a way of doing this using what is currently available?

[Ahornberg]

I recommend these REs:

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... th-module/
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... generator/
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... omparator/

[electrofux]

You can work on the cv signal and limit its values (scale it down in Thor eg) before sending it to the Quantizer. PSQ can actually set ranges afaik.

[dancing fool]

You can work on the cv signal and limit its values (scale it down in Thor eg) before sending it to the Quantizer. PSQ can actually set ranges afaik.

If you modulate the rate and offset of the quantizer with an lfo or envelope you can get pretty nice octave switches

[Goodbye]

You can work on the cv signal and limit its values (scale it down in Thor eg) before sending it to the Quantizer. PSQ can actually set ranges afaik.

@electrofux This is exactly the approach I was trying - I was trying to split a Sine wave into muliple parts and pass each part to a separate instance of a quantizer. Although I managed to split the signal, I couldn't automate the switching between the individual parts. However seems like there might be a viable approach or two outlined here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7503954

I have actually got this working with CV Mutant, but it is unbelievably fiddly, and CV mutant doesn't output a very stable signal - there are slight fluctuations which cause extra notes

@Ahornberg Thanks. These look very interesting.

@dancing fool Thanks. I will try that.

[starship]

@Goodbye: The KRON can do more than one octave or any interval really. E.g. you could set up a 3 octave scale, restrict the level of the LFO to just be in that range so it only goes 3 octaves, and voila. (Or just use the LFO as a CV input shaper if you want via the mod section).

I saw your splitting CV post.... the KRON can do some of that, but now I'm wondering if maybe just having a larger range for the scale might solve your problem. Here's a shot using 3 octaves and (hopefully) what you listed as an example. It's honestly a little bit small with 3 octaves, so that is a drawback... the bigger the scale, the smaller these little notes are. LFO1 is just going through the range of that scale.

Edit: Oh.. I didn't notice the grid overlay graphics aren't lined up with the scale... I actually can't get it to line up for 3 octaves...

3 octaves KRON.png (561.5 KiB) Viewed 4846 times

[Goriila Texas]

@Goodbye: The KRON can do more than one octave or any interval really. E.g. you could set up a 3 octave scale, restrict the level of the LFO to just be in that range so it only goes 3 octaves, and voila. (Or just use the LFO as a CV input shaper if you want via the mod section).

I saw your splitting CV post.... the KRON can do some of that, but now I'm wondering if maybe just having a larger range for the scale might solve your problem. Here's a shot using 3 octaves and (hopefully) what you listed as an example. It's honestly a little bit small with 3 octaves, so that is a drawback... the bigger the scale, the smaller these little notes are. LFO1 is just going through the range of that scale.

Edit: Oh.. I didn't notice the grid overlay graphics aren't lined up with the scale... I actually can't get it to line up for 3 octaves...

3 octaves KRON.png

Bro,I'm not going to lie that interface is complete confusion to me.

[Bes]

ok heres something

Aftermath Audio CV8X4 CV Generator
Select CV Switch

set the desired notes across the octaves on the cv generator
connect each to a corresponding cv switch input (not the gate input though)

now another cv signal from wherever you like goes into the CV Select input to control which of the 8 values is being outputted to the pitch value of your instrument

[Catblack]

My experience with CV Tuner was that it can handle very, very fast gates. So it's fun for that. You could add/subtract from it's output using the CV8X4 or something else using a Spider merge and get different root notes that way.

I've been dropping everything but Kron lately though.

But there's an interesting combi I made here and a discussion in this thread about how to autogenerate a custom scale in a player . viewtopic.php?p=354992#p354992

[electrofux]

Not sure i am getting 100% what you want. But if you want to have a lfo based note generator quantized to scales (or better notes of your liking) you might try out step note recorder.
You can plug your LFO into the position In and add a clock source/or press play. The lFO then decides what notes to trigger. The notes then can be chosen by name and the quantizer also has influence on them if you choose a note that doesnt belong to the desired scale. That way you have 32 notes to chose from for your LFO to select. Plug another lfo into gate width and velocity and you get endless generated loops of your chosen scale be it 1 2 or 3 octaves. You can tie notes, add ratcheting or skip notes to make things more interesting. Tie and mute of notes can also be lfoed. If you take the ammo lfo the variations are endless.

[Goodbye]

@Bes That was a great shout - just use a series of constants and module between them. I had tried something similar with a Matrix - trying to one-note patterns as the constants, but this works really well. And with a stack of CV Analysers it's really easy to select the right notes. Only limitation is the number of notes (8), but that should be fairly easy to work around. Thanks very much. If anyone is interested, here is a bare-bones combi patch. Obviously it needs some rhythmic gating, but this effectively what I was after. (Everything used in the Combi is free in case you are missing anything).

[Bes]

hey cool glad that is working for you, don't give up on your ideas!

[Goodbye]

@starship Thanks. Kron looks like that is capable of a lot of great stuff, but the density of information interface is just too overwhelming. Have you considered breaking it down into separate pieces? Maybe my eyes are going, but I can barely read the labels on my 4K screen. Unless Propellerhead decide to sort out Reason's graphics (maybe in Reason 14) this interface is just not usable. I'm sorry to be so frank - I can see there is so much good stuff here, but I can't see myself using it in its current form.

[Goodbye]

@electrofux This looks perfect, but apparently I've already tried your RE so I can't try it again. I hate the way trials work at the moment. I probably downloaded it when it first came out then forgot and never actually fired it up. The trials should be based on days used or similar.

[theshoemaker]

All the devices listed will map note values (or CV signals) to these notes across all octaves. What I am looking for is the ability to select a range of notes across a range of octaves and have the CV signal mapped across those notes, for example:

Octave 1
- C
- E♭
- G
Octave 2
- C
- F
- G
- B♭
Octave 3
- D
- E♭

The reason I want this is because it overs much more flexibility when making generative music, allowing a much finer-grained control over melody.

Can anyone think of a way of doing this using what is currently available?

If you already run the PSQ just fire up as many Sequencers with Quantizers and different range/offset settings and merge them with "MoPol Pholiphonic CV Merger," if you need to run the different octaves from the Quantizers on the same device. I'm pretty much doing that a lot with a CV merger Several setups for different approaches.

One is to use one device per Sequencer/Quantizer another is to use MoPol to get the input to the same device. I use this for generating random chords.

But to come back to your topic... I've attached a stripped down combinator with PSQ/MoPol/Nostromo. If you don't own Nostromo just replace it with Thor.

The attached patch uses 3 Sequencers with a separate Quantizer each and different input sources for triggering. Each quantizers selects notes from a different range (you just have to adjust the range and offset properly for your needs).

Another approach I have been using, which I also put into the patch is by routing and External LFO or Randomize function from another device into CV1 which then adjusts the Offset of Qunatizer 1.

I'm just working on a similar setup for generative music which I want to post later in the PSQ showroom, when I'm done. It's simple but I love to use it in combination with Nostromo 2 and the Randomize feature.

As for the patch. Just simplified to show how to achive what you asked for.

[theshoemaker]

And as advice if you love athmospheric generative music with pads. Turn on the width of your Pulses to 100 (A1 for example) and turn the Phase to 0 and then modulate them from and external LFO routed to your CV INs.

[starship]

@starship Thanks. Kron looks like that is capable of a lot of great stuff, but the density of information interface is just too overwhelming. Have you considered breaking it down into separate pieces? Maybe my eyes are going, but I can barely read the labels on my 4K screen. Unless Propellerhead decide to sort out Reason's graphics (maybe in Reason 14) this interface is just not usable. I'm sorry to be so frank - I can see there is so much good stuff here, but I can't see myself using it in its current form.

Definitely considered breaking it down in the future. It'll be a bit.. lots to do before I can start on anything new...

Yeah, 4K screens... I mean from my POV, on a conventional widescreen, it's great. And I honestly don't like using REs and whatnot that have really large controls... which must appear just about right to anyone with a 4K screen. I really hope Reason implements a zoom feature asap.

I regularly work with one rack at a time, height of 1280 or something. This 4k business, even having multiple monitors, 4k or not... that's luxury, man. And I just didn't design this for that. Partially I designed it b/c I was not a fan of my REs that had giant controls and weren't efficient because I had to scroll around (and do lots of back panel wiring and such) to see what was up. I mean... honestly... like the radical piano... I wish it was half the size. it's wasted real estate the way I use Reason... it makes it harder for me to deal.

So I hope that Reason implements a zoom feature... I feel like with the really wide variety in resolutions out there... I'm not sure how to please everyone at the same time. I probably won't have a 4k monitor for another 2 decades. Maybe I'll actually hook up my 2nd monitor next year (not worth the gpu hit at the moment).

[Goodbye]

@starship That's a really good way to look at things. I like REs that do simple things - each to their own. It's just amazing you can build the tools you want. I use JavaScript for my day job and I wish I could use that to build out REs. I started looking at the SDK, but I just don't think I have the time to learn enough C++, and they'll only let you develop REs if you have a LTD company (even if they are free) which I thought was crazy. Yours certainly isn't the only RE that could do with zoom support. It's a badly needed feature and everywhere you look people are asking for it or complaining about its absence.

[starship]

also... oh well! I was thinking about it this morning... and you could do something like use one LFO, outputting to 3 different note quantizers... each has their own scale set up, however many octaves.. and then in the grid, do a crossfade between the 3 note quantizers using the original lfo to move the crossfader with the mod section. You couldn't set regions though.. well, you could with some fancy mod wiring... add some constants, scale some stuff, and basically skew the crossfade so you can better select the boundaries.

But if you can do it with something else, which it sounds like you can, and you can't see it on the KRON ... oh well. ha

...
Oh, you just replied before I could submit... Yeah, I'm seeing the advantage to that more, from the user POV, simpler devices. I think a middle ground is for my GUI skills to improve and streamline some stuff.... like the KRON and PSDN have some legacy things that complicate it. But my gut is always screaming for options. More options. And I get a lot of suggestions that really sound like a good idea, often obvious, from the user POV. hehe, things get out of hand I guess.

re: company... regardless, it is kinda fun to set up a company. I got a big thrill out of it and then sat on it for a couple years. The SDK is kinda a beast. I mean it's a little intimidating. I love it though. C++ is not that bad. Once you know a language, you can learn any other language...

Yeah, maybe I'll try to pester the devs about the zoom support too.

[starship]

also re: company, maybe it's partially meant as a prove-you're-serious barrier. and for payment purposes, that's probably necessary. I'm CEO of my own company. lol. now it actually means something i guess. shrug.

[starship]

@Goodbye:

Here... I made a video b/c I need to release this bug fix update before anyone can use this combi patch.. but this is a Europa with 2 KRONs, 1 of which is doing the gates and modding, the other is doing something very similar to what you're trying to do. LFO 1 goes to 3 different note quantizers, and they can get adjusted to be wherever in the range for each... LFO 1 is also used to select between the 3. I'm using a random LFO 1 so it's jumping around to the 3 different scales.

I give up on trying to sell it to you, Goodbye but I wanted to make the patch anyway. *and* found a bug in the process, and fixed it... here's the video. EDIT: changed the video b/c my first take was glitchy as a mofo. oh my, making videos....

[starship]

Not trying to spam this post but I added some bass: this is 3 patches, 1 of which is the above one... I'm really digging the Europa. So worth buying rsn 10! So, so worth it.