Exponential Envelopes

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
Post Reply
User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 4875
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

18 Oct 2017

Hi All!

Just hearing something about exponential envelopes on synths. Supposedly it's crucial for programming drum timbres (I think kicks mainly but may be others).

So I got onto a tutorial on linear vs exponential envelope shapes on Lynda,com.

Basically, it's (I think to sum up quickly) a more curved envelope.

What I want to know is though, does this only apply to anologue synths or do any vst / Re synths have exponential envelopes?

If so, any good ones?

Thanks!
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

madmacman
Posts: 786
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

18 Oct 2017

Do you mean something like this?
  • Expanse
  • Europa
  • ReSpire
Plus RE's like Charlotte Envelope Generator

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11176
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

18 Oct 2017

A lot of synths have this like Nostromo or synths like Zero have full control over envelopes. If they lack a good envelope, you can try a external, but its a bit limited in their rate.
Reason12, Win10

User avatar
Exowildebeest
Posts: 1553
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

18 Oct 2017

Don't forget Subtractor's envelopes :)

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 4875
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

18 Oct 2017

madmacman wrote:
18 Oct 2017
Do you mean something like this?
  • Expanse
  • Europa
  • ReSpire
Plus RE's like Charlotte Envelope Generator

Expanse yes, Europa not sure but...

The Charlotte Envelope Generator (looking at the 9 stage envelope pic on top right of the device) doesn't look Exponential. The attack should curve up like this if it was exponential:-

Image
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 4875
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

18 Oct 2017

Exowildebeest wrote:
18 Oct 2017
Don't forget Subtractor's envelopes :)
Just looked in the manual. How do you know the Subtractor's envelopes are exponential?
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

madmacman
Posts: 786
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

18 Oct 2017

Creativemind wrote:
18 Oct 2017
Image
Charlotte is a bit tricky - the "curve" parameter is the option you are looking for. And you can find a visual explanation of the curves on the backside of the device.

madmacman
Posts: 786
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

18 Oct 2017

Creativemind wrote:
18 Oct 2017
Just looked in the manual. How do you know the Subtractor's envelopes are exponential?
Connect e.g. the Subtractor Mod Env Out to a visual CV analyzer (such as Pongasoft CVA-7). There you can watch the curve shape.

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 4875
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

18 Oct 2017

madmacman wrote:
18 Oct 2017
Creativemind wrote:
18 Oct 2017
Just looked in the manual. How do you know the Subtractor's envelopes are exponential?
Connect e.g. the Subtractor Mod Env Out to a visual CV analyzer (such as Pongasoft CVA-7). There you can watch the curve shape.
Ahhhh ok. Nice one.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 4875
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

19 Oct 2017

Creativemind wrote:
18 Oct 2017
madmacman wrote:
18 Oct 2017
Connect e.g. the Subtractor Mod Env Out to a visual CV analyzer (such as Pongasoft CVA-7). There you can watch the curve shape.
You wouldn't be so kind as to screenshot an example, very interested! would like to see it in action :?:
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

madmacman
Posts: 786
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

19 Oct 2017

Yes, I can do. Later today - early evening (@work right now)

madmacman
Posts: 786
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

19 Oct 2017

Ok, here we go:

1st screenshot is Subtractor with exponential decay (please excuse the glitch, I did release too early)
2nd screenshot has been created with Charlotte and strictly linear decay
Scr1_Subtractor.png
Scr1_Subtractor.png (120.33 KiB) Viewed 1520 times
Scr2_Charlotte.png
Scr2_Charlotte.png (120.44 KiB) Viewed 1520 times

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

19 Oct 2017

In Reason (and for comparison purposes), Subtractor has more exponential envelopes, Thor has linear - but you can make Thor act more exponential by scaling an envelope by itself (basically ‘squaring’ it, mathematically speaking if I’m not mistaken). This affects all time stages (ADR) so not as good as having control over each stages curve. We were just recently discussing how Absynth introduced this concept many years ago and I’m still surprised to see this feature missing from many synths. Even new synths such as Europa have a dedicated (and thus not bypass-able) simple ADSR, though all of the other envelopes support user variable curves for every envelope stage.


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
Exowildebeest
Posts: 1553
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

19 Oct 2017

selig wrote:
19 Oct 2017
In Reason (and for comparison purposes), Subtractor has more exponential envelopes, Thor has linear - but you can make Thor act more exponential by scaling an envelope by itself (basically ‘squaring’ it, mathematically speaking if I’m not mistaken). This affects all time stages (ADR) so not as good as having control over each stages curve. We were just recently discussing how Absynth introduced this concept many years ago and I’m still surprised to see this feature missing from many synths. Even new synths such as Europa have a dedicated (and thus not bypass-able) simple ADSR, though all of the other envelopes support user variable curves for every envelope stage.


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
It's a bit ironic that Grain and Europa have such simple amp envelopes compared to their mod envelopes. A weak point imo.

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Kilsane and 26 guests