Reason's poor cpu performance

[RandyEspoda]

I agree that macs lately seem to be utter crap.
For comparison, I still use a FIRST generation i7, the 860, clocked to 4.0ghz, with 8gb ram.
I can run 20 vst's without having to bounce anything. That's a bunch of vst instruments, effects both sends and inserts, along with a bunch of RE's and stock devices. Anything reaching 25 vst's I will usually have to start bouncing a few tracks cause then crackles and pops occur, but that is not too shavvy for a 9y old cpu with a daw that is supposed to have crappy performance.
My entry for the beta challenge on YT was a very very heavy project, quickly done, and it shows my dsp quite full but still going strong without pops or clicks. It had about 15 vst's scattered in some inserts and the master chain to make it sound nice, along with a few thors, Europa's and an instance of Grain and a bunch of automations going on. Nothing was bounced, I did not have any issues.

Off course there is a limit to how many vst's you can use in a given project, but guys, be realistic here. I follow several people on YT using Ableton and logic etc...and they have to bounce to audio or 'freeze' tracks PRETTY FAST in any given project! Jon Sine f.e., every time he uses Diva, he HAS to bounce it to audio to even use it (that is ONE track people !). He uses Logic Pro on a mac off course. He can't produce anything without constantly bouncing just about everything. If you don't believe me, ask him. They are crap, I've seen it lots of times. A custom pc is much better off handling high dsp loads, espeically if you treat it as should and optimize it for audio, disable core parking and stuff like that. With custom I mainly mean overclocked, cause in my book, as I keep experiencing first hand, is that the actual clock speed is still THE foremost important factor when it comes to sheer processing power of a cpu.

If a 9y old i7 can handle up to 15-20 vst's, a crapload of RE's and stock devices and up to 30 tracks before having to bounce stuff, why can't a 'mac' if they're supposed to be so good for music production ? Some down here have 32gb ram going with a 12 core cpu and crazy sh* like that, so how come everyone is having so bad performance from it in Reason ? Or is it in fact just the mac users ? In any case I have been and am still confused about the whole performance situation in Reason, cause on my pc it really isn't that bad at all, and it's an old pc though it is cranked up...

[plaamook]

Yeah, it's Mac's.
Pretty much everyone I know, especially for laptops, is going back to PC if they can. The rest, the ones stuck in Logic, are screwed, going for iMac's cause apple fucked the mac pro's as well as the macbooks.
I'm lucky in a way as I make my own brand of weird stuff, I don't need all that power, VST's n so on, but I've still seen a massive performance drop. Used to be able to run like 3 Reason songs at once, copy paste between em. Now I can still open em but not play em all. Got the latency maxed out etc. Pretty sad days really. I'm watching the candle burn down to when I'm gonna have to go back to bloody windows and all that crap again. Yuk!

I switched to Mac about 9 yr ago and back then it was like day and night. MBP back then was a power house right out of the box and if you weren't happy, change stuff out. RAM, HDD, whatever. Now? Those cnuts should be ashamed of themselves.

[normen]

Well if its about MacOSX now, this once again it proves that you can't have everything.

MacOS X (or rather NextStep) started out as a media-centric OS where the main timer in the OS was actually based around the audio clock. This made the audio support in the OS so much better than anything else that was around at that time. No need for a shoehorned-on thing like ASIO on windows, no need to deal with things like interrupts etc. causing dropouts because the OS itself would have had to deal with it as its timers would be messed up.

Lately though the focus in MacOS began to shift towards power consumption and they softened up that strong dependence on the audio clock. It makes sense for various reasons. You can disable the audio subsystem at any time without issues and you can save power by manipulating the timer, basically making processes go slower thus and use less power. But this in turn isn't great for audio applications where any timing inaccuracies are immediately "rewarded" with precious DSP processing time loss and thus the dreaded DSP bar rising.

Its just like the 64 samples buffer thing in Reason - it might not be great for what you want to do but it isn't anybody fucking up or working against you either.

[plaamook]

Well if its about MacOSX now, this once again it proves that you can't have everything.

MacOS X (or rather NextStep) started out as a media-centric OS where the main timer in the OS was actually based around the audio clock. This made the audio support in the OS so much better than anything else that was around at that time. No need for a shoehorned-on thing like ASIO on windows, no need to deal with things like interrupts etc. causing dropouts because the OS itself would have had to deal with it as its timers would be messed up.

Lately though the focus in MacOS began to shift towards power consumption and they softened up that strong dependence on the audio clock. It makes sense for various reasons. You can disable the audio subsystem at any time without issues and you can save power by manipulating the timer, basically making processes go slower thus and use less power. But this in turn isn't great for audio applications where any timing inaccuracies are immediately "rewarded" with precious DSP processing time loss and thus the dreaded DSP bar rising.

Its just like the 64 samples buffer thing in Reason - it might not be great for what you want to do but it isn't anybody fucking up or working against you either.

Fair enough but then how is windows dealing with it? It's obvs possible to build an OS that can handle DSP and it's obvs apple can't build one at the moment. They're prioritising things differently and it's leaving the Pro market in the lurch. And it's not just us. Video peeps too. Where is the power? The configurability? Gone.

[normen]

Fair enough but then how is windows dealing with it? It's obvs possible to build an OS that can handle DSP and it's obvs apple can't build one at the moment. They're prioritising things differently and it's leaving the Pro market in the lurch. And it's not just us. Video peeps too. Where is the power? The configurability? Gone.

Well that is kind of what I said right? You're the guy that complains about that. Somewhere else somebody is posting about how his MacBook only runs 4 hours with Windows but 6 hours with MacOS and says MS are idiots and leave their users in the rain.

And the "configurability" of Macs has been lost? I don't know from which universe you are but in mine Macs were never "configurable"

[plaamook]

Mac pro towers were very configurtable. The trash can isn't.
W MBP you could change out the ram and put more in than apple would for less money. Now the Ram is hard wired. So is the HD/SSD which were user changable. Mine still is.
That's what i meant.

[plaamook]

OSX, point taken.

[normen]

Well idk, I don't change bits like memory or disk during one generation really, maybe thats why I don't notice it that much. I had (actually have) two G5 towers and didn't update much while I had them, apart from putting UAD cards in. When theres a new CPU/mainboard generation you need a new everything anyway right? Even back in the G3 days I didn't get why people bothered with these CPU upgrade cards..

And since I was keeping book about this, I actually spend less on hardware since I switched from PC to Mac exactly because its harder to upgrade - I stay longer on one computer and then get a completely new one of the latest generation. With PCs I'd constantly spend money on a new mainboard/CPU combo, a GPU, new disks or whatnot.

But sure, my whole point is you should look at what you need and then look at where you get it instead of complaining that it's not everywhere.

[selig]

Mac pro towers were very configurtable. The trash can isn't.
W MBP you could change out the ram and put more in than apple would for less money. Now the Ram is hard wired. So is the HD/SSD which were user changable. Mine still is.
That's what i meant.

According to what I was reading you CAN change out or add more RAM to the 2013 trash can Mac Pro - is yours different/later model?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205044

Trying to decide to upgrade to the new iMac Pro or hold out another year for the next gen trash can…getting into 4K video is taxing my current system!


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[selig]

Well idk, I don't change bits like memory or disk during one generation really, maybe thats why I don't notice it that much. I had (actually have) two G5 towers and didn't update much while I had them, apart from putting UAD cards in. When theres a new CPU/mainboard generation you need a new everything anyway right? Even back in the G3 days I didn't get why people bothered with these CPU upgrade cards..

And since I was keeping book about this, I actually spend less on hardware since I switched from PC to Mac exactly because its harder to upgrade - I stay longer on one computer and then get a completely new one of the latest generation. With PCs I'd constantly spend money on a new mainboard/CPU combo, a GPU, new disks or whatnot.

But sure, my whole point is you should look at what you need and then look at where you get it instead of complaining that it's not everywhere.

Funny, I was just going to say the same thing after thinking about why this is not an issue for me.

I’ve had Macs since late 1985 (512 Mac). In fact, that model is the ONLY one I’ve upgraded, adding after-market RAM (up to 2MB!!!). It was NOT in “upgradable” model either.

I’ve had two towers, Quadra 950 and G3, over the years and never upgraded either one with Ram, CPU, or HD changes. Only HD change I’ve made was a few years ago when my MacBook Pro’s internal drive puked.

Like Normen, I tend to keep each model in service for as long as possible (at least 5 years or more), then upgrade when I absolutely have to do so. Incremental upgrades would likely not satisfy me anyway, for what minor benefits they would provide.

I do a LOT of research before I comment to any purchase (even a cheep RE!), so I’ve rarely been unhappy with a decision.

I’m not suggesting anyone should do what I do, or that my approach is any better than any other. Just sharing what has worked for me for over 30 years now, which I feel has allowed me to focus on music and not so much on computers and hardware.

Sure, I am fascinated with technology and read about new developments all the time. But my fascination is rooted in imagining the music/art I can make with the tools rather than with the tools themselves!



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[plaamook]

Mac pro towers were very configurtable. The trash can isn't.
W MBP you could change out the ram and put more in than apple would for less money. Now the Ram is hard wired. So is the HD/SSD which were user changable. Mine still is.
That's what i meant.

According to what I was reading you CAN change out or add more RAM to the 2013 trash can Mac Pro - is yours different/later model?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205044

Trying to decide to upgrade to the new iMac Pro or hold out another year for the next gen trash can…getting into 4K video is taxing my current system!


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

I don't own a trash can. Video friend does. It's kind of interesting because it's small enough to trvel with but he batch about the spec limits and configurability as do others. Which is why peeps are going for iMAc pro instead. Seems like a good deal really.
Other than that can't advise.

[plaamook]

But sure, my whole point is you should look at what you need and then look at where you get it instead of complaining that it's not everywhere.

To a point, I agree. But OSX is a special thing. I feel I'm being held ransom! That and the track pads.
Personally I'm ot an upgradefreak. But I did get a striped down MBP with as fast a processor as I could and jacked the ram and SSD myself because Aple charge way WAY too much for that sort of thing. And I got 16Gb RAM wheere as apple only would put 8 in the 13". It's literally impossible to buy my rig from apple. And now it's impossible to make it yourself.
So in the end I still agree whith the nay sayers. I think their pro market has really slipped. That said, I'll hold out as long as I can. Me and my mac still have a very special relationship...

[avasopht]

Just sharing what has worked for me for over 30 years now, which I feel has allowed me to focus on music and not so much on computers and hardware.

Sure, I am fascinated with technology and read about new developments all the time. But my fascination is rooted in imagining the music/art I can make with the tools rather than with the tools themselves!

[botnotbot]

Just a heads up that I'm experiencing poor performance in R10 as well. I've got an iMac 5K running Sierra, maxed out, and I get clicks when playing back the demo songs (buffer size is 512, but even at 1024 I get issues with what feels like quite minimal setups).

I can promise you that this is not the iMac's fault. I've got Bitwig projects pushing 100s of plugins that run just fine.

[tiker01]

Just a heads up that I'm experiencing poor performance in R10 as well. I've got an iMac 5K running Sierra, maxed out, and I get clicks when playing back the demo songs (buffer size is 512, but even at 1024 I get issues with what feels like quite minimal setups).

I can promise you that this is not the iMac's fault. I've got Bitwig projects pushing 100s of plugins that run just fine.

Are you running Reason in low resolution mode?

[botnotbot]

I wasn't aware that it had a low resolution mode. Is that about visuals or audio quality?

[tiker01]

I wasn't aware that it had a low resolution mode. Is that about visuals or audio quality?

It is to run it in non retina mode.

[Galaxy]

I wasn't aware that it had a low resolution mode. Is that about visuals or audio quality?

It is to run it in non retina mode.

Is this a Reason setting or an OS setting? Curious, does this apply only to iMacs?

[tumar]

Is this a Reason setting or an OS setting? Curious, does this apply only to iMacs?

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/06/24 ... play-macs/

I tried it on MB Pro, without any effect on CPU.

[botnotbot]

Is this a Reason setting or an OS setting? Curious, does this apply only to iMacs?

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/06/24 ... play-macs/

I tried it on MB Pro, without any effect on CPU.

In fact this low-res setting fixes my stutters.

In my case the CPU meter is the same between both.

These two data points imply that the clicks I hear are a result of graphics processing issues rather than DSP overload.

If true, this is actually a good thing in my particular case -- fixing a graphics bug should be a lot easier than fixing the performance of the whole app.

For others reporting crappy performance on retina Macs, can you try this trick as well and see if it addresses your issues?

Also I'm curious how many people are experiencing dropouts and clicks while the DSP meter is less than a third up.

[Marco Raaphorst]

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/06/24 ... play-macs/

I tried it on MB Pro, without any effect on CPU.

In fact this low-res setting fixes my stutters.

In my case the CPU meter is the same between both.

These two data points imply that the clicks I hear are a result of graphics processing issues rather than DSP overload.

If true, this is actually a good thing in my particular case -- fixing a graphics bug should be a lot easier than fixing the performance of the whole app.

For others reporting crappy performance on retina Macs, can you try this trick as well and see if it addresses your issues?

Also I'm curious how many people are experiencing dropouts and clicks while the DSP meter is less than a third up.

yeah same CPU issues. low res grafics don't matter.

please report to the props. they are aware of these issues.

[botnotbot]

So Marco your DSP meter is maxed out?

My CPU is barely working when running the demo song, according to the meter. Gets up to three bars at one point, but the dropouts don't seem to correlate to DSP usage at all.

[Marco Raaphorst]

So Marco your DSP meter is maxed out?

My CPU is barely working when running the demo song, according to the meter. Gets up to three bars at one point, but the dropouts don't seem to correlate to DSP usage at all.

No DSP maxed out but weird drop outs. Not getting these under Live or Garageband.

[moneykube]

any word when this issue might be fixed on macs????
... weird drop outs... computer too slow constantly doing very simple things... can not come even close to the capabilities using racks in 9.2 compared to 9.5 or now 10

[botnotbot]

FWIW I sent in my issue to support yesterday. I'll update here if they tell me anything useful.