Grain Discussion Thread

[Zac]

So, just hypothetically, if we had to choose between
- Dedicated CV connections on the back panel, OR
- Some more mod matrix slots and maybe another couple of freestyle CV ins and outs,

...which would we rather have? I would definitely choose the dedicated CV connections, for the various workflow reasons mentioned by others here, but that's just me.

It would be dedicated CV connections for me too. That way the ui doesn't have to expand. There's plenty of real estate on the back. Also with dedicated ones I find they can prompt creativity because sometimes you read the CV label and think ... I'll try a LFO into that...

[EdGrip]

.... Also with dedicated ones I find they can prompt creativity because sometimes you read the CV label and think ... I'll try a LFO into that...

Yeah! This! Me too!

[scratchnsnifff]

So, just hypothetically, if we had to choose between
- Dedicated CV connections on the back panel, OR
- Some more mod matrix slots and maybe another couple of freestyle CV ins and outs,

...which would we rather have? I would definitely choose the dedicated CV connections, for the various workflow reasons mentioned by others here, but that's just me.

In a perfect world we’d have a second page for the matrix, and the obvious cv targets. If I had to pick one I’d also vote CV I just Love to intertwine random instruments. I could hold off on sample import and other possible additions I think it will be great as is, just needs that last finishing touch of cv or matrix slots

[plasticfractal]

After watching the livestream demo, Grain sounds really amazing.

[AzureEyes]

Would you guys ever consider doing a FM Grain like mode in the future. Similar to Granulator in Ableton


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[Emian]

So, just hypothetically, if we had to choose between
- Dedicated CV connections on the back panel, OR
- Some more mod matrix slots and maybe another couple of freestyle CV ins and outs,

...which would we rather have? I would definitely choose the dedicated CV connections, for the various workflow reasons mentioned by others here, but that's just me.

It would be dedicated CV connections for me too. That way the ui doesn't have to expand. There's plenty of real estate on the back. Also with dedicated ones I find they can prompt creativity because sometimes you read the CV label and think ... I'll try a LFO into that...

i' m in the same camp !

CV-tools like "Shape" are very inviting for experimenting like this. & i held off buyin' Expanse (wich i DO find has the sexiest ass of all synth's i've tried) when Europa was announced.... i mean, even Parsec has dedicated CV-in's for all Modifiers....

common Props, i think this can't be that hard to realise?

[Loque]

i' m in the same camp !

CV-tools like "Shape" are very inviting for experimenting like this. & i held off buyin' Expanse (wich i DO find has the sexiest ass of all synth's i've tried) when Europa was announced.... i mean, even Parsec has dedicated CV-in's for all Modifiers....

common Props, i think this can't be that hard to realise?

If you like CVs, you gonna love eXpanse's back. The bunch of envelopes and LFOs, free waveform editing and loading, multi inter oscilator FM, trillion modifiers, gazillions of filters and FX does the rest.

[chaosroyale]

Dedicated CV ins are a big part of Reasons appeal, so leaving them out seems counterproductive. I don't understand why Props don't increase the dedicated CV inputs for legacy devices too. Maybe a developer can set me straight.

The parameters can already be modulated so it seems like just a simple graphics tweak and a little bit of code would do the trick, resulting in a pretty awesome "upgrade" from the users point of view, and not affecting backwards compatibilty at all.

Imagine NNXT with a ton of CV on the back.

Grain and Europa -> no reason at all not to have a bunch of dedicated CV in addition to the 4 "free" inputs. They really need to fix that before release.

[scratchnsnifff]

Would you guys ever consider doing a FM Grain like mode in the future. Similar to Granulator in Ableton


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Mind=blown!!! That’d be crazy

[FGL]

Great Device what I have seen so far. More interesting then even Europa. With the possibility of Load own Waveforms users can experimenting an create endless Sounds. The possibility to freely automate the points in the soundfile is particularly exciting. I think I'll love it.

I also see no advantage that could be achieved by even more CV.

[Kategra]

Has anyone else noticed the clicks and crackles in the sound when it comes out of Reason?
It's so annoying that I can barley fellow the Grain presentation when Grain is being played- it's crackling and clicking. I noticed both on Facebook and YouTube!

For example, video time :
3:55: to 4:10
4:35 to 4:45

[FGL]

Has anyone else noticed the clicks and crackles in the sound when it comes out of Reason?
It's so annoying that I can barley fellow the Grain presentation when Grain is being played- it's crackling and clicking. I noticed both on Facebook and YouTube!

For example, video time :
3:55: to 4:10
4:35 to 4:45

You can easy get cracks and crackles with this sort of devices. It is like working with samples the starting point ist very important.

[Goodbye]

Dedicated CV ins are a big part of Reasons appeal, so leaving them out seems counterproductive. I don't understand why Props don't increase the dedicated CV inputs for legacy devices too. Maybe a developer can set me straight.

The parameters can already be modulated so it seems like just a simple graphics tweak and a little bit of code would do the trick, resulting in a pretty awesome "upgrade" from the users point of view, and not affecting backwards compatibilty at all.

Imagine NNXT with a ton of CV on the back.

Grain and Europa -> no reason at all not to have a bunch of dedicated CV in addition to the 4 "free" inputs. They really need to fix that before release.

I think the sad truth is that most users don't really use the CV (or indeed the back of the rack), though to me that's the main reason to use Reason, so it looks like Propellerhead don't really care about this aspect. It has always frustrated me that they never fully embraced the modular possibilities of Reason themselves. As far as CV goes, there is the argument that a lot can be done with a combinator, but although this is somewhat true, I don't see why they don't add more CVs as it is trivial to do and there is plenty of space in the back. NNXT is a different beast though as you can't even automate most of it, so CV access wouldn't be possible.

[Kategra]

You can easy get cracks and crackles with this sort of devices. It is like working with samples the starting point ist very important.

So it's not Reason performance issues on that particular machine used for streaming, it's Grain?
Wonder if they did not thought of picking sample start always start at zero crossing?

[FGL]

So it's not Reason performance issues on that particular machine used for streaming, it's Grain? Wonder if they did not thought of picking sample start always start at zero crossing?

No, I can't say for sure. I am just guessing. I don't have my hands on it.

[bxbrkrz]

Has anyone else noticed the clicks and crackles in the sound when it comes out of Reason?
It's so annoying that I can barley fellow the Grain presentation when Grain is being played- it's crackling and clicking. I noticed both on Facebook and YouTube!

For example, video time :
3:55: to 4:10
4:35 to 4:45

Could it be the same problems they had with Europa which was artifacts from the live streaming? You can read comments under that YT vid and Mattias responding to it.

[esselfortium]

I haven't experienced any problems with crackling from Grain or Europa, fwiw. It was probably just the stream being weird.

[emilng]

As a developer I could understand why you don't want to create a bunch of dedicated CVs for each instrument. Instead of a generic reusable piece of code that only has to be tested once to make sure it works you have to create a bunch of custom code and dedicate time to writing tests and having people test that functionality to make it work. When you create another instrument you have to do that all over again for each dedicated CV.

For the people complaining about lack of CV inputs, how often do you run out of CV inputs given that you have 4 CV ins and another 4 CV ins if you throw it in a combinator? I've only run into this issue when I'm messing around and don't end up with a usable sound in the end. I understand why it's a big deal with something like Expanse because it's a major CPU hog and you don't want too many instances of it running at the same time. Reason runs smoothly with multiple instances of Propellerhead devices so for me it's easier to switch between them when I want to change the sound rather than trying to do it all with CVs.

[chaosroyale]

I often find myself needing more CV/parameter tweaking options, which is one reason that a combinator2 is my personal hobbyhorse.

A good argument in favor of dedicated CV inputs is that the instant feedback makes creating patches really fast. No need to mess around with assigning things in a mod matrix, and you often find yourself trying something experimental with CV routing and discovering new inspirations for sounds.

This is exactly what I liked about Reason and what sets the rack apart from other DAWs. A standard mod matrix is great to have too, but that's not what makes Reason worth using compared to anything else. Look at the back of Malstrom - it's fantastic, you can try out all kinds of ideas in a second.

(By the way, I don't buy the idea that dedicated CV inputs require a ton of extra custom coding. Wouldn't the coding be the same as the generic CV inputs, mapped directly to one parameter instead of the mod matrix.)

[emilng]

I totally get why you would want more CV inputs and an expanded combinator would be awesome especially seeing that VSTs support 8 CV inputs.

Having that instant gratification of dedicated inputs make sense also.

I don't work for PH so I can't comment on what their development process is like, but I'm guessing that there was a business reason for having so much of both synths share functionality. Either the timeline for development was short and/or there was limited development resources. The moment you add customization to that chunk of shared code you're adding time to design, development, testing and project management. The code might not be much, but the additional overhead of having so many people working on something that not that many customers use might have been a deal breaker for them or it could just be that they found it made the UI cluttered.

[scratchnsnifff]

.... Also with dedicated ones I find they can prompt creativity because sometimes you read the CV label and think ... I'll try a LFO into that...

Yeah! This! Me too!

That’s how I learned how cv works It made me realize it was a sort of invisible automation system. The back of malstrom is where I was first really inspired to try wiring. It would be awesome if they made those adjustments to Europa and grain so that way new users can hopefully get inspired and realize there is a really useful side to those tiny connections

[Abstrax]

Yeah! This! Me too!

That’s how I learned how cv works It made me realize it was a sort of invisible automation system. The back of malstrom is where I was first really inspired to try wiring. It would be awesome if they made those adjustments to Europa and grain so that way new users can hopefully get inspired and realize there is a really useful side to those tiny connections

Yes to all of this. CV inputs can only lead to more experimentation, creativity, and learning.

[Libraquaricorn]

Question: Is it possible to remote override map the green playhead thing in Grain freeze mode? I want to move that thing around with a knob....

[plaamook]

Question: Is it possible to remote override map the green playhead thing in Grain freeze mode? I want to move that thing around with a knob....

Yeah. Put it in a Combinator and assign a combi knob to Grain's 'Position" parameter.

[Libraquaricorn]

Question: Is it possible to remote override map the green playhead thing in Grain freeze mode? I want to move that thing around with a knob....

Yeah. Put it in a Combinator and assign a combi knob to Grain's 'Position" parameter.

Thanks! I had given up on this, until you replied. I found the parameter 'Start Position' under 'Sample Position' to give me the desired result.