Reason n00b with questions

[mrmiyagi]

First post!

New reason user here, although I am an ex-Sonar user, now primarily a Logic user and have been for a long time. I demo’d and bought Reason, and I want to use it when I am traveling. I make New Age and World music. I am a heavy audio unit user and I don’t want to gunk up my MacBook (my main work PC is a mac pro) with too many things. So I want to use Reason, but I don’t want to use any Rack Exts, or any VST plugs. So as I am reading the manual, I’d I thought I’d get some cheat sheet info from the experts:

1. I can’t for the life of me find a decent piano in the F sound bank - am I missing something? Any of you familiar with Logic’s factory panos? Those are great - anything good inside Reason? I don’t like any of the “combinator” pianos either. I realized today that they’re not different pianos, they’re the same pianos in the NNXT just “effected”. I am getting Reason 10 for free, and I don’t like the Radical Piano either - well, not for piano sounds at least : )

2. Is there a way to turn off the gridlines?

3. Is there some way to drag-copy loops like in Logic?

4. I tried highlighting many channels of the mixer and lowering all the volumes at the same time but it’s not working. Can I not do this in Reason?

5. Maybe I am just used to the ones in Logic, but I am finding it hard to like the compressors in Reason. Which one do you guys use? I like the mixer compressor the most, but I want an actual device I can look at in the rack. The m-class is too “soft” and the pulverizer is too “hard” I hope that makes sense.

6. Just a general “because I am curious” question, but why is Subtractor mono? And if the reason is “because it’s old” then why haven’t they updated it to stereo? I have to convert it to stereo every time and i am getting tired of it already haha. I saved a Subtractor in stereo so I guess that will help.

7. What is the purpose of the NN19? It seems like it doesn’t belong. What do you guys use it for?

I like how Reason works and looks and I am excited to try the new synths in version 10 because I have to be honest - the factory content in Logic is more “shiny”…I don’t know how else to describe it. It sounds more high quality to me. I know that is subjective, but I am probably used to Logic’s sounds. Reason’s synths sound….I don’t know….cheap? I don’t mean any offense. My goal is not to make finished tracks in Reason so that's ok. I will use it more for writing. I DO like the maelstrom though. And Kong is good too because it has current modern sounds.

Oh, and I don’t want to use rack extensions because I have plenty of audio units I can use, so I don’t want to waste money.

Anyways, hello and thanks.

MM

[Ahornberg]

Reason is not Logic

[Ahornberg]

1. I can’t for the life of me find a decent piano in the F sound bank - am I missing something?

Just wait for Reason 10.

2. Is there a way to turn off the gridlines?

No.

3. Is there some way to drag-copy loops like in Logic?

No, but there are Blocks. Use Blocks instead.

4. I tried highlighting many channels of the mixer and lowering all the volumes at the same time but it’s not working. Can I not do this in Reason?

No, but there are Buses. Use Buses instead.

5. Maybe I am just used to the ones in Logic, but I am finding it hard to like the compressors in Reason. Which one do you guys use? I like the mixer compressor the most, but I want an actual device I can look at in the rack. The m-class is too “soft” and the pulverizer is too “hard” I hope that makes sense.

So try parallel compression. Pulverizer comes with a dry/wet-knob.

6. Just a general “because I am curious” question, but why is Subtractor mono?

It's a mono-synth. That's why it is mono.

7. What is the purpose of the NN19? It seems like it doesn’t belong. What do you guys use it for?

It's a sampler. Use it to load samples.

I like how Reason works and looks and I am excited to try the new synths in version 10 because I have to be honest - the factory content in Logic is more “shiny”…I don’t know how else to describe it.

Use Logic and Rewire Reason.

Oh, and I don’t want to use rack extensions because I have plenty of audio units I can use, so I don’t want to waste money.

But the real fun comes with RackExtensions.

At last here's a more serious tip: Stop complaining what Reason can't do and use it as it is. Reason is a great modular synth device. It has CV cables to do really crazy stuff. Go and download all 42 free RackExtensions viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7258239 and make some music.

[ProfessaKaos]

Just use Logic.

[praznovsky.m]

1. There is id8 device, that have piano sound, for only songwriting it's good, and sometimes it stuck in my tracks till the end.

7. I use nn19 mostly when I need to load only one sample, which I like to process f.e. kick or clap, make fx from percusions

[jayhosking]

I may be misunderstanding some of these questions, but...

1. There's nothing super sophisticated for feature/solo work, but many can be quite pretty in the context of a song. Reason 10 will add Radical Piano, which again I don't think sounds great on its own but at least gives you a lot of flexibility in terms of the sound you want. I'm not familiar with Logic's current piano samples, so I can't speak on that part. But there are also the Emotional Piano RE and Reason Pianos Refill that are both superb, if you care to spend more money (I understand if you don't).

2. Do you mean to turn off snapping to the grid? If so, then press "s" on your keyboard or the "snap" button in the sequencer window/tab.

3. Click a loop + alt/option key and then drag a loop.

4. I don't believe so, unfortunately, and there's no grouping feature (as I'm familiar with in ProTools). But, you can add those highlighted tracks to a bus and turn them all down that way.

5. The stock compressors aren't first-rate, but of the ones available, the M-class performs the best, in my opinion. To ease up what you're calling "soft", consider shortening the attack time if you haven't already. Again, there are a number of good RE compressors (as well as some good VSTs; I use Waves' RComp almost exclusively now that we have VST support).

6. Subtractor is very old, is the reason. Propellerhead doesn't update its devices, so that you can open a project file from years before and it still plays exactly as it should. That said, they probably could add some sort of unison/spread feature without completely screwing up the device. Reason 10 will give you Europa, which appears to be able to make beautiful and simple Subtractor-like sounds in stereo. Or, as you've discovered, you can just create a stereo patch and start with that.

7. The NN19 is an old device that allows you to load in a single sample and play around with it as an instrument. While limited in ability, I often find it quicker to use than the NNXT. That said, now that I'm using sample-loading instruments (e.g. the Proton RE, or the upcoming Grain in Reason 10), I'll probably never go back to NN19. Glad to have it to load up old patches, though.

Funny, I don't care for Malstrom and I find Kong's sets to be lacking (REALLY looking forward to the drum updates in Reason 10). To each their own, eh?

Anyway, enjoy, and I hope any of this is useful.

[normen]

If you made a Stereo-Subtractor by just putting two Subtractors with the same patch in a Combinator then I‘d agree you should probably stick with Logic - not trying to make fun, I really think it would be a good indicator.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

The one big advantage of the NN-19 over the NN-XT is everything can be automated..

[Creativemind]

And the old Bussing is Ganged Faders argument appears. Bussing is NOT the same as altering multiple volumes / faders at the same time. Not only would it make your mixer look untidy with red faders everywhere (for no logical reason) but let's just say you have a pad, strings and piano in your track and you wanted to turn each one up by 1dB. You buss them and then turn the red fader up by 1db. You've now turned up the pad, strings and piano by 1dB? wrong. You've turned up all 3 collectively by 1dB so you'd have to divide 1dB by 3 to find out how much you've turned them up. So you'd have to turn the red fader up by 3dB to get 1dB each. Not to mention how this affects readings on the individual channels, or doesn't in this case.

[aeox]

.

Most of the stuff was answered here. Just want to ask, why did you buy Reason? Seems like it has nothing to offer you, yet you still bought it.
Personally, I used almost a whole month deciding if Reason was for me. I can't go without it and is my only DAW now!

[EnochLight]

3. Is there some way to drag-copy loops like in Logic?

No, but there are Blocks. Use Blocks instead.

What??! Of course there is! Just click on a loop + alt/option key and then drag the loop. There's also your typical copy/paste function, which is usually faster when you want to copy a lot. Blocks is of course an option, but you may still need to copy loops in a Block (in which case, using click on a loop + alt/option key and then drag the loop is a better option).

[EdGrip]

You can't adjust multiple faders, and using busses isn't really a suitable substitute, as mentioned above. It's a regular request on our forum feature request/PH nag list.

Just to clarify - if you select a clip with the arrow tool, and then hold down Cmd, you can drag-copy that clip (audio or midi).
Then you can click-and-drag to drag a selection box over *both* those clips (the original and the copy you've just made) and Cmd-drag to duplicate BOTH clips, so you've now got 4. Repeat to exponentially copy millions of the same clip.

Rather than update the devices in Reason, instead they tend leave them and add an alternative, more up-to-date device (NN-19 and later NN-XT, Subtractor and later Thor).

NN-19 was the original sampler in Reason, back at the turn of the millennium. You can put multiple samples into it, and assign them to keyzones or individual keys. It's inspired by old rack samplers like the Akai S950, but disappointingly (given Reason's famous sequencer timestretch skills) it lacks any timestretch option, so a sample's duration will always change along with its pitch if you spread it over several keys. (NN-XT is the same in that regard.)
You could (if you were feeling masochistic) make an entire track just with sequenced NN-19s, full of drum hits, instrument samples, vocal samples, found sounds - just as people did with Akais.

With M-Class Compressor, try turning up the input gain and turning the threshold and attack time down. You'll need to turn the output gain down to compensate. It's not the best.

See how you get on - you might want to add one or two well-chosen Rack Extensions or VSTs later if you find you're using Reason often.

It's totally fine to add a DAW that's very different to what you're used to working with, to get you thinking in different ways.
It might help if you fully accept that Reason is more like a shed full of rack instruments, drum machines and hardware to experiment with and sequence, with DAW functionality that's been added over the years - rather than a DAW with an unusual interface.
If Reason were a music festival it would be one which, despite an eclectic lineup, you can tell started as a big dirty rave.

[mrmiyagi]

Thanks for the help guys.

I don't like the concept of blocks. There is something similar in Logic and I don't use it. I also demo'd radical piano and I don't like that either. I am not a sound designer, and have no interest in using CV. I want to use Reason as a tape recorder to capture ideas.

About drag copying loops - it was my fault I was unclear. Anyone familiar with the Acid way of dragging out loops? Where you just take the little handle at the edge of the loop and extend it out multiple times. The reason way is just copying and pasting! So I found out Reason can't do it this way, but it's ok, not a big deal.

So after playing with Reason all night, I have to say the bare bones factory content is not that good. I don't mean to insult! How did you guys get on before rack extensions and vsts?

And Mr Normen - of course that isn't a "stereo" subtractor. I'm new to Reason, not to music production!

Ahornberg - you know how to win friends and influence people, I can tell! jk...

I bought Reason because YES I want to use something different. I have two DAW stations at home. One room has the fully loaded Logic + Audio Units + Hardware setup, another room has just Logic and only its factory soundbank installed (which curiously I use more than the loaded rig). And now for the road I'd like to use something different, that will allow me to think differently. That is Reason. Although I think I overestimated the included sound content. Or rather maybe I am unfairly comparing it to Logic's sounds? I thought it would be closer since both Reason (soon) and Logic are at version 10, but it seems like Reason is behind on a lot of simple things! No dealbreakers for me though, but when I compare Logic 10 to Reason 9.5, it seems like they are both the same age, but Logic is a lot more mature.

Another thing that concerns me just a little is that it looks like I get way more stuff with Logic's free updates than with Reason' paid updates, at least that's what my research has turned up. When I look at what I got during all of Logic's free V10 mini updates (Alchemy!) vs what i will get with the Reason 10 MAJOR update, I'm not impressed at all! Are you guys really happy with it? I mean I am happy I get it for free, but if I had to pay for it I would not be happy! Again I do not mean to insult at all. Logic isn't perfect either!

[Gorgon]

No dealbreakers for me though, but when I compare Logic 10 to Reason 9.5, it seems like they are both the same age, but Logic is a lot more mature.

Ehr, no, Logic has been around since what, 1995?

[Loque]

To me a lot of Reasons sounds and presets were like... Hm.... Mehhh... I need something different... Searching... Cycle begins again...

Now after a few years i have a bunch of RE synths and FX, and now VSTs that lead me faster to what i was looking for. Tbh, maybe now i have to many synths and FX. But nowadays i more and more i make my own sounds and i understand, that you can really great sounds of of Reason directly. Subtractor sounds like no other, harsh, dirty, gritty, bad boy... But you may need a few of them and a bunch of fx for a big stereo thing. It's a shame that most of the sounds and patches were so bad over the time (still imo).

I dont know logic, but i think Reason Update process are ok. They were cheaper in the past. In 9 you got Melodyne like editing, VST, Ableton link, bounce to midi... It was ok. In 10 you get 2 good synths, 3 ROMpler, big bunch of sounds... Guess it is ok. And 10.5 (considering history) you may get even more for free.

[Ahornberg]

So after playing with Reason all night, I have to say the bare bones factory content is not that good. I don't mean to insult! How did you guys get on before rack extensions and vsts?

Personally, I use the factory sounds a lot because it's so easy to stack up sounds and effects in a Combinator.
And its so easy to use EQ and compression out of the box from the mixer channels.

Just take a listen to my One-Synth-EPs and judge for yourself:

SubTractor


Malström


Pulsar

[EnochLight]

Are you guys really happy with it?

Many are happy, it would seem - but you're going to get biased feedback that leans towards Reason here since this is a Reason-centric community. Spend some time over at KVR and you'll read pages of dissatisfaction and hate, though many of those users don't even use it anymore (or never did), so take that equally with a proverbial grain of salt.

Reason has made leaps and bounds over the past 5-6 years, but as always with Propellerhead - things move at a snail's pace. The built-in content really hasn't had a major upgrade for many years, which is what Reason 10 is supposed to address. A small step towards that occurred with Reason 9, but most of it was EDM/dance/pop music friendly, and that's about it. The thing about Reason is, it was designed to be geared towards those who want to build their own patches from the ground up and tinker (though there is a massive 3rd party market for additional content via Refills). If you're just loading up stock Subtractor, Malstrom, or NN19/XT patches - I'm not surprised that you're disappointed, as most of those devices are well over 15 years old and made for a very different time.

Browse through the Combinators that are included with Reason 9's soundbank though, and things get arguably a bit more interesting. YMMV.

Reason's unique selling proposition is its rack paradigm (with skeuomorphic cables and CV). The sequencer, while nowhere near as advanced as other DAW on the market, takes a unique "Propellerhead approach" to many things. You either love it or hate it.

You say you have no interest in RE's or VST in Reason, because of the money you've invested in AU with Logic. I can respect that. But to be frank, in pre-Reason 10 you're going to have to add some RE (or choice VST) if you want immediate gratification, simple as that. Otherwise, you'll need to work with what you have - or ReWire into Logic (and since you're not using VST in Reason), that won't be a problem.

As for Logic? I'm glad you like it, because I find it horribly uninspiring to work in...

[Ahornberg]

As for Logic? I'm glad you like it, because I find it horribly uninspiring to work in...

A logic reason to switch from Logic to Reason

[esselfortium]

It's hard for any DAW on the market to compete with the amount of content Apple is able to basically give away with Logic, because they have far deeper pockets than any other developer in the field. I'm pretty sure that if you compared every DAW out there, Logic would win every time in terms of the sheer quantity of bundled content.

Personally, I use Reason because I like its workflow. Its instruments and effects are versatile, often moreso than they appear, and using it feels comfortable to me. I grew up with Reason and know it inside and out, and even in the old days before plug-in support I felt like I could do nearly anything with it -- heck, I created some of my all-time favorite patches with a single Subtractor. Over the past few versions I've gradually started using more third-party plugins in my productions, but even as of Reason 9.5 I'm still relying pretty heavily on Thor and many of the other stock devices, because they're still solid and capable, and it's easy to dial them in to do exactly what I want.

[TritoneAddiction]

I'm not really a piano guy but I like this one for its character, just has a soft, warm, gentle sound that I personally like.
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... nal-piano/
But of course it's a rack extension so there's that. But if you don't want to use Reasons own piano sounds or Radical piano there's not much you can do besides look at other alternatives.

I think the new synths in version 10 will improve Reason a lot, especially for someone not wanting to buy a bunch of rack extension synths. Europa looks like it can do a lot.
I'm actually quite excited about the upgrade. 2 new big synths is not that expensive with the 129 pricetag imo, if it's something you are actually interested in. And then there's additional stuff I'll use from time to time. For me it's worth it. But each to his own.

As for your question "How did you guys get on before rack extensions and vsts?"

I managed to squeeze out a lot of the stock devices I think. Here's one example. It's from my instrumental electronic metal project "Synthetic Flesh" I worked on a couple of years ago. Kind of an odd example, but why not

[Ahornberg]

The one big advantage of the NN-19 over the NN-XT is everything can be automated..

true

[selig]

And the old Bussing is Ganged Faders argument appears. Bussing is NOT the same as altering multiple volumes / faders at the same time. Not only would it make your mixer look untidy with red faders everywhere (for no logical reason) but let's just say you have a pad, strings and piano in your track and you wanted to turn each one up by 1dB. You buss them and then turn the red fader up by 1db. You've now turned up the pad, strings and piano by 1dB? wrong. You've turned up all 3 collectively by 1dB so you'd have to divide 1dB by 3 to find out how much you've turned them up. So you'd have to turn the red fader up by 3dB to get 1dB each. Not to mention how this affects readings on the individual channels, or doesn't in this case.

Apologies if this sounds rude, but no, just no. This is just not how it works at all!

Not sure if you've tried what you suggest (or where you've heard this) because if you have you would quickly figure out that's not how audio works in a mixer.

First clue - audio doesn't get louder when you bus it (unless you raise the bus fader). Doesn't matter if you bus one channel or one hundred. The result is EXACTLY the same level as before you bussed them. Meaning, three channels bussed don't get three times as loud as you suggest! They all stay exactly the same level.

Therefore, if you THEN raise the bus fader by 1 dB, everything gets exactly 1 dB louder. If you turn it up by 3 dB, everything gets 3 dB louder.

Example: if I have 8 drum channels and they collectively peak at -10 dBFS (on the master meter) when all playing together, then when I bus them they STILL peak at -10 dBFS. If I THEN increase the bus fader by 1 dB, they will now peak at -9 dBFS. That's how decibels work, and why we use them for audio signals! It doesn't matter if it's 8 channels, or 3 channels, or 99 channels - it always works exactly the same way.

Hope I'm making sense, just wanted to point this out to clear up any confusion (and I hope I haven't offended you in doing so)!

[selig]

First post!

New reason user here, although I am an ex-Sonar user, now primarily a Logic user and have been for a long time. I demo’d and bought Reason, and I want to use it when I am traveling. I make New Age and World music. I am a heavy audio unit user and I don’t want to gunk up my MacBook (my main work PC is a mac pro) with too many things. So I want to use Reason, but I don’t want to use any Rack Exts, or any VST plugs. So as I am reading the manual, I’d I thought I’d get some cheat sheet info from the experts:

1. I can’t for the life of me find a decent piano in the F sound bank - am I missing something? Any of you familiar with Logic’s factory panos? Those are great - anything good inside Reason? I don’t like any of the “combinator” pianos either. I realized today that they’re not different pianos, they’re the same pianos in the NNXT just “effected”. I am getting Reason 10 for free, and I don’t like the Radical Piano either - well, not for piano sounds at least : )

2. Is there a way to turn off the gridlines?

3. Is there some way to drag-copy loops like in Logic?

4. I tried highlighting many channels of the mixer and lowering all the volumes at the same time but it’s not working. Can I not do this in Reason?

5. Maybe I am just used to the ones in Logic, but I am finding it hard to like the compressors in Reason. Which one do you guys use? I like the mixer compressor the most, but I want an actual device I can look at in the rack. The m-class is too “soft” and the pulverizer is too “hard” I hope that makes sense.

6. Just a general “because I am curious” question, but why is Subtractor mono? And if the reason is “because it’s old” then why haven’t they updated it to stereo? I have to convert it to stereo every time and i am getting tired of it already haha. I saved a Subtractor in stereo so I guess that will help.

7. What is the purpose of the NN19? It seems like it doesn’t belong. What do you guys use it for?

I like how Reason works and looks and I am excited to try the new synths in version 10 because I have to be honest - the factory content in Logic is more “shiny”…I don’t know how else to describe it. It sounds more high quality to me. I know that is subjective, but I am probably used to Logic’s sounds. Reason’s synths sound….I don’t know….cheap? I don’t mean any offense. My goal is not to make finished tracks in Reason so that's ok. I will use it more for writing. I DO like the maelstrom though. And Kong is good too because it has current modern sounds.

Oh, and I don’t want to use rack extensions because I have plenty of audio units I can use, so I don’t want to waste money.

Anyways, hello and thanks.

MM

If your goal is not to make finished tracks in Reason, why do you care at all about the "shininess" or "cheapness" of the factory sounds?
Maybe just start and finish songs in Logic and save some time?
Why can't you 'write' using Logic? Especially if you are writing music that relies on the sounds (as opposed to writing "songwriter" style songs)?

(oh, and IMO beware of "current modern sounds" - in a few years they will likely NOT sound either current OR modern.)

I've written "new age/world" music for many years, and I prefer to use the same sounds for writing as for the finished recording. One thing that's led me to Reason from MIDI sequencers and hardware synths in the 80s, and from Pro Tools and Opcode in the 90s was the fact I made MORE music with Reason than with those other apps.

That's the ONLY thing that matters to me - how much music do I make when you use a certain app. Once you find an app that inspires you, there's no need for other apps in my experience - thought that wouldn't be the case, but when trying to compose I really don't want to have to 'think' too much about which app I'm using - I just want to create!

But we are all different, and have different ways of working. However, I would think that if the factory sounds don't inspire you in Reason, you won't likely be inspired to make music in Reason. And if you don't make music in Reason, there's really no need to keep it around - especially if there's already an app (Logic) that works well for you.

Bottom line: this is your choice, no one here can convince you the Reason sounds are any better than Logic's sounds - that's 100% a personal call! So just use the tools that inspire you to make the most and best music!

I have to wonder…
It sounds like you like Logic and have a lot invested in AUs. Why even consider switching to Reason then? (sincere question: why are you 'shopping around' for another DAW?)

[mrmiyagi]

But esselfortium, it's not even about Logic's quantity - the quality is very impressive! The propellerheads maybe can't compete with the quantity but they should with the quality!

Everyone keeps mentioning Radical Piano but I don't see how anyone who has ever played other pianos in audio unit land, or even a real piano can say that Radical Piano sounds like a piano! Is that why they are giving it away for free?

The R10 synthesizers look good. But they were made by propellerheads right? I just don't think I would buy any audio units made by them if they ever released any. I hope the R10 synths are different (better). I don't think I will find anything I am looking for in the new R10 sounds/loops. I do not use pre-made loops, and I think they mentioned they got the loops from Sample Magic and i think they are mostly dance people, so nothing for me there I guess.

I have no doubts I will be able to put together tracks inside Reason and that it will be different and fun. Although the sounds inside Reason right now (keep in mind I am just starting) remind me of soundfonts. In fact, the whole refill scene reminds me of how people used to make soundfont collections. Unfortunately soundfonts were never really good (an exception here and there).

Yes Logic isn't for everyone (although EVERYONE here at the studio has it on their laptops! I am the only one with Reason!) Mr Enoch - is there another daw besides Reason that you do find inspiring? Seeing that you are more seasoned, what don't you like about Reason?

[Carly(Poohbear)]

what don't you like about Reason?

People who can't just on and make music and just want to moan about things and think the grass is greener on the other side.