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Blown away by Europa in the livestream but I noticed it didn't have very many factory wavetables which kinda worries me. I hope there's a bit more.

I enjoyed the Livestream. I think Europa has a good sound. The pads alone were very impressive in terms of what you can do. The dynamic wavetables were very cool. "Karplus Strong" emulates a Physical Modeling kind of synthesis almost. Sounds good too. The mod section looks amazing tons of stuff we didn't even get to see either. Leaves a lot of mystery. I loved the spectral filter which can drastically change to sound being generated by the engine's oscillator.

The filters were nice too

Being able to draw your own wavetables, sounds cool and all but I'd love to see them add an import option for guys/gals that have loads of their own. Maybe we'll get that option in the future!

The FX part is nice and can really color your sound.

The envelopes are very well done and can do very interesting motion to the sound. I hope making curves for custom waves isn't too difficult either.

In terms of sound. It's sounds different then Serum, Expanse, Icarus and Falcon.

What are your thoughts on Europa?

I think it's awesome with these things

- Dynamic Wavetables
- Spectral Filter
- Filter Section
- Various Mods
- Custom Shapes using Env3 & Env4
- Dedicated FX section
- Envelopes



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It's hard to really judge the sound based on stream audio but what I DID hear sounded awesome! Being a stock device maybe we will hear more of nucleus sound lab level of patches, good news for "preset surfers". I myself like to design from scratch and it looks like you can go really deep while at the same time having a clean and strait forward interface, excellent!

I agree that the dynamic aspect of the wavetables looks interesting. I don't necessarily think a lot of wavetables is needed when you can modify them in so many ways.

When sound-designers join this Europa thing - including Dopetank, it'll be awesome!

More wavetables sounds nice but I think consider what you can do with even a basic WT like a saw, or pulse running through 2 modifiers + the spectral filter (which is actually adjusting the waveform still further, instead of just filtering the audio). I think there'll probably be enough here to keep us busy for a long time, but of course I would also like to see sample import. Matt did say "not at the moment" a few times so, I feel like it's on the to-do list!

As they told, you can paint the wave. That is good, but can be fiddly. The sound was promising, we will see our hear...
Here are a few things that should be added :
* decided CV in for the Osc, Filters, Pans
* dedicated CV out would be nice too for envelopes
* bigger mod matrix or more matrix pages like in Nostromo
* audio in for fx, maybe also for a feedback loop to the delay of the delay is worth it
* can't remember if it has a compressor, but i think ppl want to have a side chain in if there is a compressor
* loading a wave table
* loading and saving or at least copy and paste of envelopes
* sync and unsync for oscillators
* hopefully there is a way to phase offset the oscilator
* fm through mod matrix with external audio in or at least a simple fm Modifier
* a additve part, subtractive would be nice to

Well, iam sure all those stuff is too much for the users they aim, so nothing of this will be added. Sigh...

Loque wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

As they told, you can paint the wave. That is good, but can be fiddly. The sound was promising, we will see our hear...
Here are a few things that should be added :
* decided CV in for the Osc, Filters, Pans
* dedicated CV out would be nice too for envelopes
* bigger mod matrix or more matrix pages like in Nostromo
* audio in for fx, maybe also for a feedback loop to the delay of the delay is worth it
* can't remember if it has a compressor, but i think ppl want to have a side chain in if there is a compressor
* loading a wave table
* loading and saving or at least copy and paste of envelopes
* sync and unsync for oscillators
* hopefully there is a way to phase offset the oscilator
* fm through mid matrix with external audio on our art lässt a simple fm Modifier
* a additve part, subtractive would be nice to

Well, iam sure all those stuff is too much for the users they aim, so nothing of this will be added. Sigh...

Doesn't Expanse have most of the stuff you requested?

TritoneAddiction wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

Loque wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

As they told, you can paint the wave. That is good, but can be fiddly. The sound was promising, we will see our hear...
Here are a few things that should be added :
* dedicated CV in for the Osc, Filters, Pans
* dedicated CV out would be nice too for envelopes
* bigger mod matrix or more matrix pages like in Nostromo
* audio in for fx, maybe also for a feedback loop to the delay of the delay is worth it
* can't remember if it has a compressor, but i think ppl want to have a side chain in if there is a compressor
* loading a wave table
* loading and saving or at least copy and paste of envelopes
* sync and unsync for oscillators
* hopefully there is a way to phase offset the oscilator
* fm through mid matrix with external audio on our art lässt a simple fm Modifier
* a additve part, subtractive would be nice to

Well, iam sure all those stuff is too much for the users they aim, so nothing of this will be added. Sigh...

Doesn't Expanse have most of the stuff you requested?

Most of it, except that eXpanse does not have the special audio ins for delay feedback, compressor and fm too and lacks mod matrix slots aswell. Europa has a hard competitor to beat with eXpanse. Lets see, what Europas filter can do. The painting in the display is also a plus.

Loque wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

TritoneAddiction wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

Doesn't Expanse have most of the stuff you requested?

Most of it, except that eXpanse does not have the special audio ins for delay feedback, compressor and fm too and lacks mod matrix slots aswell. Europa has a hard competitor to beat with eXpanse. Lets see, what Europas filter can do. The painting in the display is also a plus.

The sidechain input in Expanse is for the compressor as far as I recall. At least that's one thing you can cross off your list.

eXode wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

Loque wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

Most of it, except that eXpanse does not have the special audio ins for delay feedback, compressor and fm too and lacks mod matrix slots aswell. Europa has a hard competitor to beat with eXpanse. Lets see, what Europas filter can do. The painting in the display is also a plus.

The sidechain input in Expanse is for the compressor as far as I recall. At least that's one thing you can cross off your list.

Damn! Europe will have a hard time to beat eXpanse.

What that modifier did to the sound at 19m46s in the Live Stream was well nice. Me likey likey. Lol!

Is the the stream available to view online? I didn’t get to watch it live.

am i the only one who tries to click on knobs during these videos?

Faastwalker wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

Is the the stream available to view online? I didn’t get to watch it live.

yes on the propellerhead facebook page

Europa really seems interesting. But the absence of dedicated cv-ins on the back is really disturbing. It will be a great limitation and it's sad that they don't seem to value that kind of flexibility. Propellerhead's history of updating their synths after launching them says that the Europa we get with R10 is the final version. I'm really looking forward to it, but i fear that the lack of cv-inputs – together with the fact that you can't import wavetables (my experience with drawing your own isn't that great) – will hamper it severely in the future. We'll just have to hope for at least a few more cv-inputs (how hard can it be?) before the final release...

kungubu wrote:Europa really seems interesting. But the absence of dedicated cv-ins on the back is really disturbing. It will be a great limitation and it's sad that they don't seem to value that kind of flexibility. Propellerhead's history of updating their synths after launching them says that the Europa we get with R10 is the final version. I'm really looking forward to it, but i fear that the lack of cv-inputs – together with the fact that you can't import wavetables (my experience with drawing your own isn't that great) – will hamper it severely in the future. We'll just have to hope for at least a few more cv-inputs (how hard can it be?) before the final release...

I think they plan on adding new things! Wavetable import has to happen though. So many people are asking for it. I mean it shouldn't be a big thing to implement. I just want to use my Serum wavetables with those cool mods and that spectral filter! Hopefully they add it in like 10.1 or something!


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AzureEyes wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

kungubu wrote:Europa really seems interesting. But the absence of dedicated cv-ins on the back is really disturbing. It will be a great limitation and it's sad that they don't seem to value that kind of flexibility. Propellerhead's history of updating their synths after launching them says that the Europa we get with R10 is the final version. I'm really looking forward to it, but i fear that the lack of cv-inputs – together with the fact that you can't import wavetables (my experience with drawing your own isn't that great) – will hamper it severely in the future. We'll just have to hope for at least a few more cv-inputs (how hard can it be?) before the final release...

I think they plan on adding new things! Wavetable import has to happen though. So many people are asking for it. I mean it shouldn't be a big thing to implement. I just want to use my Serum wavetables with those cool mods and that spectral filter! Hopefully they add it in like 10.1 or something!


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Problem is the history of PH-rack synths. The final product is final. Subtractor, Malström and Thor – no updates. And it's not because there hasen't been any people asking for updates. The Europa we get in R10 is most certainly the final Europa.

I watched the live stream and Europa sounded amazing. Even just starting with a basic sine wave, within seconds, very interesting and modern sounds can be created. I love how simple and accessible it looks, and how deep, fat and complex it can sound despite the simple interface. I can’t wait to play with it and use it in my own productions.

I have a question for the people that want all of these “extra” features for Europa without even having played with it... what kind of sounds do you want to make? Extra features don’t necessarily make better sounds. In some ways you can actually worsen the sound (not to mention the usability) of the synth if you add too many features. What sound could you possibly want to create that you can’t already do? And would that sound be suitable for human ears? Personally, from a synth like Europa, I expect great modern sounds that can be used in modern music, and I think Propellerhead got it “just right” and it offers great sounds in a nice clean interface. Well done!

I didn’t watch the stream. Did they confirm whether Europa is an RE or a native device?

miscend wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

I didn’t watch the stream. Did they confirm whether Europa is an RE or a native device?

I believe I saw Stefan say in the comments that it’s part of the program, like Thor, Subtractor, etc.

kungubu wrote:

AzureEyes wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

I think they plan on adding new things! Wavetable import has to happen though. So many people are asking for it. I mean it shouldn't be a big thing to implement. I just want to use my Serum wavetables with those cool mods and that spectral filter! Hopefully they add it in like 10.1 or something!


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Problem is the history of PH-rack synths. The final product is final. Subtractor, Malström and Thor – no updates. And it's not because there hasen't been any people asking for updates. The Europa we get in R10 is most certainly the final Europa.

Yeah for those synthesizers. Stuff people ask for could break people's projects and refills. A simple wavetable importing feature wouldn't break Europa project files

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AzureEyes wrote:

kungubu wrote: Problem is the history of PH-rack synths. The final product is final. Subtractor, Malström and Thor – no updates. And it's not because there hasen't been any people asking for updates. The Europa we get in R10 is most certainly the final Europa.

Yeah for those synthesizers. Stuff people ask for could break people's projects and refills. A simple wavetable importing feature wouldn't break Europa project files

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Don't mention Mattias wants to continue improving Europa and Grain overtime because the look expandable unlike Subtractor, Malstrom, Thor...

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AzureEyes wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

AzureEyes wrote:Yeah for those synthesizers. Stuff people ask for could break people's projects and refills. A simple wavetable importing feature wouldn't break Europa project files

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Don't mention Mattias wants to continue improving Europa and Grain overtime because the look expandable unlike Subtractor, Malstrom, Thor...

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if by expandable you mean upgradable... I think many would disagree. all three have potential to be 'expanded' and it has been requested by many.

I do hope you are correct about improvements to Europa and grain. they could become the new flagship instruments.

evolve187 wrote:

AzureEyes wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

Don't mention Mattias wants to continue improving Europa and Grain overtime because the look expandable unlike Subtractor, Malstrom, Thor...

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if by expandable you mean upgradable... I think many would disagree. all three have potential to be 'expanded' and it has been requested by many.

I do hope you are correct about improvements to Europa and grain. they could become the new flagship instruments.

All I know is Europa is my new favorite. Sorry Thor! I mean I guess we can still draw waveforms and make wavetables that way in Europa!

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kungubu wrote:

AzureEyes wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2017

I think they plan on adding new things! Wavetable import has to happen though. So many people are asking for it. I mean it shouldn't be a big thing to implement. I just want to use my Serum wavetables with those cool mods and that spectral filter! Hopefully they add it in like 10.1 or something!


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Problem is the history of PH-rack synths. The final product is final. Subtractor, Malström and Thor – no updates. And it's not because there hasen't been any people asking for updates. The Europa we get in R10 is most certainly the final Europa.

That's not really fair, I see you clarified that you're speaking of PH synths, but the rv 7000 got a major update for a feature fairly analogous to custom wavetables when it got custom convolution, years after the fact. There's also Parsec update, but not native admittedly and it wasn't free.

Point is, I don't think it's safe to assume it won't be improved over time.

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