Reason 9.5.2 is now available!

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

26 Sep 2017

per-anders wrote:
25 Sep 2017
You just stated exactly what I said was a misconception as apparently your own conception. And then again in this post.
No I didn't, read the post again. I specifically explain the high CPU load reference.

And I don't know why you do a long post about Reason running fewer plugins than other hosts while you were throwing around MT terms before. We know Reason runs fewer plugins, so I'll just ignore that wall of text.

You also didn't explain whatever multithreading issues Reason has in laymans terms so I guess you don't actually have an argument there.

As for my translations coming from "the fiction going on in my head" - I guess I'll let that slip because actually we all only see the fiction our head creates and not the real world so I won't take that as an offense - I'll do the translation 1:1 here:

S: There are very real problems when it scales negatively. The function of MP is to speed things up, not slow things down.
T: Multithreading is for making things fast.

S: It's a misconception that multithreading automatically results in improved processing. It's also a misconception that high processor usage indicates effective multithreading.
T: Heres two random misconceptions nobody in this thread had.

S: The effect of MT on latency is of course that the less time the computer spends processing both audio and UI before output the smaller the buffer you require in order to maintain a constant stream without dropouts. Therefore highly efficient and well threaded code is likely to result in a lower required buffer size which in turn results in a lower roundtrip latency. But that's the sum total. The eventual output is to a serial port so of course it's single threaded output.
T: If you compute with two processors you compute faster.

S: Look it's entirely possible that the negative scaling is down to a third party, down to plugins not behaving well when implemented in an MP environment. It is however notable that other DAW's do not seem to have these same issues (or at least don't suffer them as badly).
T: Some plugins might have issues with multithreading.

S: The concept behind Reason isn't inherently limited when it comes to multithreading, there are many scholarly articles on efficient multithreading of dependency graphs.
T: Multithreading in Reason might improve performance, I don‘t know.

S: Of course the only reason MT even is an issue is because Reason's performance overall is notably slower than the competition these days, which is a complete reversal of how things used to be, and that could be resolved without even utilizing MT if Reason were to handle caching better (Freezing and UnFreezing automatically for those used to audio terms), and of course introduce layers/grouping (although busing would still allow significant performance gains in a well architected system).
T: Reason is slower than all other DAWs and should freeze automatically.

User avatar
miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

26 Sep 2017

Studio One might use a hybrid buffer like Logic and Cubase. To get that extra performance.

per-anders
Posts: 224
Joined: 09 Jul 2015

26 Sep 2017

normen - Please re-read - I have to ask, do you know the difference between MP and MT? That long post is the MP performance compared between Reason and S1. SP performance differences are just an aside.

You made those assumptions about threading, they weren’t pulled out of a hat. This stuff may just not be your subject even ignoring that you think VST’s are applications.

miscend - Could be, but I think there are probably a lot of reasons for the performance differences.

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8405
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

26 Sep 2017

per-anders wrote:
26 Sep 2017
This stuff may just not be your subject even ignoring that you think VST’s are applications.
Not to split hairs, but when referring to VST's... technically they can be considered applications. They each run as separate programs (applications), anyway. I realize "VST" is just an interface standard, but come on, man - they're all interfacing with applications. Colloquially speaking, of course.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

26 Sep 2017

EnochLight wrote:
26 Sep 2017
Not to split hairs, but when referring to VST's... technically they can be considered applications. They each run as separate programs (applications), anyway. I realize "VST" is just an interface standard, but come on, man - they're all interfacing with applications. Colloquially speaking, of course.
Actually I was just saying that they work like any application (in that they use the OS like any application) but as you say its splitting hairs, a DLL and an EXE file only really differ in the header, its the same code, the same APIs, the same compiler, the same everything, just that you can‘t run the DLL because theres no application code. REs are quite different in that respect.

But yeah, its getting kinda boring trying to clear up topics that are randomly dragged into this discussion. Why does nobody tell the Props how to do their coffe and lunch breaks more efficiently, I mean its obvious the other DAW developers have that figured out. I‘m sure theres coffe making experts here.

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8405
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

26 Sep 2017

normen wrote:
26 Sep 2017
But yeah, its getting kinda boring trying to clear up topics that are randomly dragged into this discussion. Why does nobody tell the Props how to do their coffe and lunch breaks more efficiently, I mean its obvious the other DAW developers have that figured out. I‘m sure theres coffe making experts here.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

27 Sep 2017

Put the milk in before the water and stir vigorously into a frothy coffee paste. The only way to make a proper cup of coffee :lol:

User avatar
JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1174
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

27 Sep 2017

I've just reported this to JE. It might not be a Reason error, but I thought I'd give a head's up here, as it's potentially a show-stopper, and I've never had this before, only since updating to 9.5.2.

When saving a file—which, as we know, Reason locks when the file is opened, preventing it from being copied, moved or deleted—Volume Shadow Copy Service can report it as locked when you try to resave it, triggering an error in Reason which it reports as a "hardware exception", which it isn't really.

Previous errors over the past few days I clicked "OK" to clear the error dialog and save, but notably this morning the file would not Save, nor would it even Save As to a new file on a different hard drive.

Please be aware. Save often!

(Fortunately I didn't lose more then 5 minutes of graft today :redface: ).

reasonerror.png
reasonerror.png (6.95 KiB) Viewed 3967 times

As I say, previously it then allowed the file to save; today, it didn't, just retriggered the error on a loop. :puf_unhappy:

graeme75
Posts: 290
Joined: 19 May 2015

28 Sep 2017

Hi

Has the Groove link in the transport bar disappeared from the rack screen? Its present in the sequencer screen, but when I change to rack view the groove link has gone in the transport bar.

I have Reason 9.5.2 and running it on a Mac with High Sierra

Cheers
Graeme

User avatar
theshoemaker
Posts: 595
Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Germany
Contact:

29 Sep 2017

MattiasHG wrote:
22 Sep 2017

With 9.5.2 we have made changes to the caches and file system to be compatible with High Sierra which means you'll likely have to re-scan VSTs. When scanning VSTs, a VST plug-in could potentially crash Reason at start-up. The next time you start up Reason, a crashed plug-in will be ignored during scanning. If I had to speculate, this might be why your 9.5.2 would quit and not 9.5.1.

Try moving all your VSTs temporarily out of the VST folder and launch Reason 9.5.2. Does it work? If so, a VST is causing a crash.
Is there any chance to implement how files are read from the /Library folder on a Mac for RackExtensions and the various Factory banks. I'm running out of disk space and I plan to upgrade to Reason 10. I tried to symlink `ln -s /Volumes/Samsung_T3/Reason/Soundbanks /Library/Application\ Support/Propellerhead\ Software/Soundbanks ` but this unfortunately didn't work out. Or implement an option in the Settings for relocation.
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V12 on MacOS Ventura

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

29 Sep 2017

^ I would *love* an option during installation to choose RE and Soundbank locations without having to make junctions!


User avatar
Data_Shrine
Posts: 517
Joined: 23 Jan 2015

05 Oct 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Sep 2017
I've just reported this to JE. It might not be a Reason error, but I thought I'd give a head's up here, as it's potentially a show-stopper, and I've never had this before, only since updating to 9.5.2.

When saving a file—which, as we know, Reason locks when the file is opened, preventing it from being copied, moved or deleted—Volume Shadow Copy Service can report it as locked when you try to resave it, triggering an error in Reason which it reports as a "hardware exception", which it isn't really.

Previous errors over the past few days I clicked "OK" to clear the error dialog and save, but notably this morning the file would not Save, nor would it even Save As to a new file on a different hard drive.

Please be aware. Save often!

(Fortunately I didn't lose more then 5 minutes of graft today :redface: ).


reasonerror.png


As I say, previously it then allowed the file to save; today, it didn't, just retriggered the error on a loop. :puf_unhappy:
That's messy. Since this is probably the last R9 update before R10 lands, I won't be updating.. =/

User avatar
JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1174
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

05 Oct 2017

Data_Shrine wrote:
05 Oct 2017
JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Sep 2017
I've just reported this to JE. It might not be a Reason error, but I thought I'd give a head's up here, as it's potentially a show-stopper, and I've never had this before, only since updating to 9.5.2.

When saving a file—which, as we know, Reason locks when the file is opened, preventing it from being copied, moved or deleted—Volume Shadow Copy Service can report it as locked when you try to resave it, triggering an error in Reason which it reports as a "hardware exception", which it isn't really.

Previous errors over the past few days I clicked "OK" to clear the error dialog and save, but notably this morning the file would not Save, nor would it even Save As to a new file on a different hard drive.

Please be aware. Save often!

(Fortunately I didn't lose more then 5 minutes of graft today :redface: ).


reasonerror.png


As I say, previously it then allowed the file to save; today, it didn't, just retriggered the error on a loop. :puf_unhappy:
That's messy. Since this is probably the last R9 update before R10 lands, I won't be updating.. =/
Well, it's possible it was a hard-drive error. I've not had a reoccurrence since, although I've not used Reason much this week... so...

But as a friend pointed out, if such a thing did happen again, a workaround to prevent losing work might be to create a new songfile and copy everything in the locked songfile to it. That might save correctly. (It might not, but it would be something to try).

User avatar
Data_Shrine
Posts: 517
Joined: 23 Jan 2015

09 Oct 2017

I've updated finally and I'm on my 2nd day on it, no saving problems so far.

User avatar
GeiddE
Posts: 103
Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Location: Right here, right now
Contact:

10 Oct 2017

for the past few days
and I have to say
works ok
on my machine so far
gotta find the ignition key and get the laptop rolling

User avatar
FlowerSoldier
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

10 Oct 2017

On the topic of saving files...
I hopped on google cloud last week. The terabyte pricing plan. I was super glad today too because there were some huge fires in my town today. My house is 2 blocks from the Mandatory Evacuation Area. A lot of my friends homes burnt down, and my work burnt down. I was super glad I had my files in the cloud throughout it all. Also, I still have my kitty. I can't replace my music files, or my cat if they are in a fire. Get the cloud backup. Highly Recommended. I'm going to go look into if it's possible to clone my cat.

User avatar
stevan
Posts: 167
Joined: 17 Nov 2015

13 Oct 2017

I updated on High Sierra , because of that pixalation problem and now R 9.5.2 got very very worse performance ...

it seems that Balance got massive problems with HighSierra, it doesn't work without crackles in other DAWs too ...
damned :evil:

So, how nice ... If I wanna work with R 9.5.2/R 10 I have to install HighSierra, but Balance (my beloved audiointerface) ,doesn't work with HighSierra ... what a mess :thumbs_down:

User avatar
etyrnal
Posts: 316
Joined: 24 Jan 2016
Contact:

25 Oct 2017

FlowerSoldier wrote:
joeyluck wrote:
22 Sep 2017
Hey Mattias! Thanks for the update :puf_smile:

I know you mentioned that there are no performance improvements. And it's a few days before High Sierra is released (9/25)... But is there any chance that with this update in combination with macOS High Sierra (10.13), those users experiencing issues on Sierra (10.12) might see improvements?
I was going to ask the same thing! I'm afraid to update my iMac to 10.12 because I read about performance issues with Reason 9.5.1.
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

This mindless compulsion to force everyone to perpetually upgrade forward all the time has broken so many production environments over the years. It's asinine. Don't you just love it when developers think that the only software in the world that you use is there piece of software and the operating system? You could be using 20 different applications and all of them could be fragile when it comes to updating. One update could lose you 30% of your production environments software. Every time they try to force you into updating it's like playing roulette.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


User avatar
kimothebeatmaker
Posts: 105
Joined: 02 Dec 2016
Location: Texas

25 Oct 2017

So are they going to make improvements on performance for 9.5 users now that 10 is out? Or are we just SOL?
"Cocaine and Prostitutes"

User avatar
Oquasec
Posts: 2849
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

25 Oct 2017

propellerhead recommends a cpu that does a benchmark of at least 3000 [high performance mode] to use it though
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

phallyka
Posts: 1
Joined: 23 Oct 2017

26 Oct 2017

Thanks for the update, its time to start the weekend :thumbs_up:


เกย์

User avatar
moneykube
Posts: 3447
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

26 Oct 2017

and now 10 hurray :essentials: :lightbulb: :exclamation: :exclamation:
https://soundcloud.com/moneykube-qube/s ... d-playlist
Proud Member Of The Awesome League Of Perpetuals

User avatar
jappe
Moderator
Posts: 2437
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

28 Oct 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Sep 2017
I've just reported this to JE. It might not be a Reason error, but I thought I'd give a head's up here, as it's potentially a show-stopper, and I've never had this before, only since updating to 9.5.2.

When saving a file—which, as we know, Reason locks when the file is opened, preventing it from being copied, moved or deleted—Volume Shadow Copy Service can report it as locked when you try to resave it, triggering an error in Reason which it reports as a "hardware exception", which it isn't really.

Previous errors over the past few days I clicked "OK" to clear the error dialog and save, but notably this morning the file would not Save, nor would it even Save As to a new file on a different hard drive.

Please be aware. Save often!

(Fortunately I didn't lose more then 5 minutes of graft today :redface: ).


reasonerror.png


As I say, previously it then allowed the file to save; today, it didn't, just retriggered the error on a loop. :puf_unhappy:
EDIT: Problem solved by clicking the "Sync All" button on the props account page

Hello,

did this problem disappear automatically?

I have the same problem suddenly now when trying to same my most recent projects (opening works fine), and I have some more information to add
EDIT: moved error description to an existing thread on the topic:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7503381&p=354580#p354580

User avatar
JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1174
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

28 Oct 2017

jappe wrote:
28 Oct 2017

Hello,

did this problem disappear automatically?

I have the same problem suddenly now when trying to same my most recent projects (opening works fine), and I have some more information to add

I'm working with the same projects on PC and MAC, version 9.5.2d21 build 8.636, and that version has worked fine for me until now.

ON PC Windows 8.1, Intel i5-4430 3GHz 16GB, iRig keyboard + Balance audio interface:
* An error message telling that there was some problem with the Carve RE popped up.
* Trying to save a preexisting project: I get that HardwareException
* Creating and saving a new file works fine
* Opening and saving a version of the project that's a few days older works fine (the version before and including 2017-09-30 works, the next version of the project I have is from 2017-10-12 and that fails.
* Same problem after restarting the PC
* Disk seems to work perfectly fine in other applications

ON MAC: (OSX Sierra 10.12.6, MBP Retina 115 inch mid 2014)
* While troubleshooting this, I closed reason on my PC, and tried to open Reason (with the default empty project) on my mac: got an error 'you can't open the application "Reason" because it may be damaged or incomplete"'
(This has never happened before, so it feels related to my problem on Reason PC)
I don't know about disappeared automatically, but—typical!— no, after several occurences that led up to me making that post, the bastard thing hasn't happened since. When you don't want an issue you get issues, and when you want issues to trigger cos you've got diag tools running that might help figure out the cause, the fuckers go into hiding. ;)

I'm gonna stop the diag tools.

(There, now I've torn it and tempted fate... :lol: )

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests