Reason 10 announced!

[electrofux]

9.5.2 :Made plugin window open button remotable, "Proxy Open Plugin Window"

This actually is gold for me as would be any addition to remote of which there are only teeny tiny additions now and then.
Remote stuff is pure workflow enhancing, so more on this is very welcome.

Yeah most definitely. Its not a straight forward process setting it up from project to project though which is borked. I think its because of the UI VST devices use you have to the override from the options menu can't just right click it like with any other remotable sadly.

It is better to set it up in the codec anyways, so you dont have to remote override at all.

[starflakeprj]

It seems like this is Propellerhead's new business model for RE's. If they had just released these new synths as RE's, people would just buy VST alternatives. Now they have to upgrade to get the new RE's.

Your post makes no sense at all. Why wouldn't people "just buy" VST alternatives now when they are included in the update, as they apparently (according to you) will if they were released as REs?

[Oquasec]

I'll upgrade the first chance I get. That small ass fee for what you get is insane.
One synth these days can be as high as 500$.

[unisyn]

After reading Mattias's response I'm seriously in doubt of PH's future

VST was something they had the codebase for long, but they didn't want to release it;
but seems like they had to ASAP as 9.5 prematurely to answer to their investors call.

And then the Layers RE.

And now this RE pack, which they chose to brand as a Major Upgrade.....
Though I do admit that it is an attractive price point if you wanted to add a bunch of sample packs/VST/RE's to your arsenal.
Still, this is what they value as a milestone release???

All in all they seem to be uninterested in growth and sustainability of the platform and user base; rather just trying to cash in on the short term.

[fieldframe]

Lol! You're completely wrong. It's backwards compatible obviously like new versions of Reason are. Old Subtractor patches would still work on a new Subtractor (say Subtractor 2) but Subtractor 2 patches wouldn't work on the first Subtractor. Like old versions of Reason work on later versions but not the other way 'round.

you are oversimplifying the problem. if they make backwards compatibility a priority, they are limiting the amount of improvement they can make. for instance, if they gave Subtractor a new sound engine to eliminate the aliasing, that would change how every single patch sounds in subtle or not-so-subtle ways. so if they can't make that improvement, what's the point of a Subtractor 2?

This is a simple problem to solve. Simple enough, in fact, that Propellerhead did it back in Reason 1.0! To this day, Redrum, NN-19, and NN-XT all have "high quality interpolation" switches, a remnant of the much slower CPUs of 15 years ago. Subtractor also has its own "Low bandwidth" switch. Subtractor 2.0 would need only update this to a three-way switch that enables antialiasing and more detailed filter models.

[Oquasec]

If reaktor could do it, so could propellerhead :]

[Ostermilk]

Your post makes no sense at all.

Since when did posts have to make sense?

Who sent that memo?

[Sorped]

A lot of people in this thread seem ticked off that the one or two particular things they want, isn't included. Reason doesn't stop with version 10.

Yeah but how long we gotta wait for simple midi editing features like muting / unmuting notes, note displays and see what key you're pressing in the midi editor. They can put all that effort into making 5, yes 5 new synths but little things like this, along with an undo events list, ganged faders, a notepad, crossfading in the sequencer, manual parameter inputs etc....still missing.

I don't know how long you have to wait for that. But as I see it there's an option 1 to wait it out and there's an option 2 of finding something else. Those are the options you have, it doesn't matter how much you want other features to be implemented or how much people moan that Propellerhead shot themselves in the foot etc. It's 1 or 2. I'm going for 1 and leave it at that. If I had to use my energy concerning whether or not this or that feature is added or updated in the next version, I'd get nothing else done.

[Exowildebeest]

you are oversimplifying the problem. if they make backwards compatibility a priority, they are limiting the amount of improvement they can make. for instance, if they gave Subtractor a new sound engine to eliminate the aliasing, that would change how every single patch sounds in subtle or not-so-subtle ways. so if they can't make that improvement, what's the point of a Subtractor 2?

This is a simple problem to solve. Simple enough, in fact, that Propellerhead did it back in Reason 1.0! To this day, Redrum, NN-19, and NN-XT all have "high quality interpolation" switches, a remnant of the much slower CPUs of 15 years ago. Subtractor also has its own "Low bandwidth" switch. Subtractor 2.0 would need only update this to a three-way switch that enables antialiasing and more detailed filter models.

Even if it really is technically that easy, adding such switches is un-sexy marketing wise, and it suggests that it previously wasn't high quality. I've got a new model of water cooker to sell, this one comes with a switch that makes it stop exploding in your face...

[EnochLight]

I'll upgrade the first chance I get. That small ass fee for what you get is insane.
One synth these days can be as high as 500$.

Only one synth I know of costs close to $500 USD, and that's Omnisphere 2. Pretty much all other soft synths out there average less than $220 USD. But yeah - for Reason's upgrade price, it's a steal for all of that content IMHO.

After reading Mattias's response I'm seriously in doubt of PH's future

VST was something they had the codebase for long, but they didn't want to release it;

This isn't quite true, or rather - it's a lot more complicated than that.

but seems like they had to ASAP as 9.5 prematurely to answer to their investors call.

..but this isn't true either.

And then the Layers RE.

And now this RE pack, which they chose to brand as a Major Upgrade.....
Though I do admit that it is an attractive price point if you wanted to add a bunch of sample packs/VST/RE's to your arsenal.
Still, this is what they value as a milestone release???

All in all they seem to be uninterested in growth and sustainability of the platform and user base; rather just trying to cash in on the short term.

I couldn't disagree more. It's a content upgrade, focusing on content. There are still a lot of users out there - especially first-time users shopping for DAW's for the very first time - that will see immense value in this. For everyone else, or for those who already have enough content, there will be plenty of other updates in the future. Props haven't lost the plot, contrary to what some would have you believe.

[Oquasec]

Reaktor was one of the largest synths in existence and that was bout 200$ by itself.
Another plugin I'd actually use again one day for sure :]

[Exowildebeest]

One could argue that a "content" update isn't what you'd expect at a landmark "10" release.

On the other hand, it's a nice thing to see the opposite of overhyped "landmark number" releases in technology. Thank the gods they didn't call it Reason X.

[O1B]

NNXT Mk3 - not yet,
Prof. Rex16 - later
Super Combi+Programmer, BitDestroyer12Bit Vocoder, Panel-Selectable !6:4 Mixer, Changeable SSL Console Boards - a lil longer
Prop iPad control support....
a Prop Shop'd MIDI-Controller/AI - keep dreaming...

What did we Get? Music.

IMO. Well. Designed. Music makers. Really, really nice. I needs some EUROPA. wow! Great day!
That's my synth right there.... to do battle with the Subsequent 37CV.

And, that Waveform-Recycle-looking-Granular-Synchronous-Sweepable thing.... Grain, is it..... Wow.
(Soon, "Propellerhead Grain" will become a popular Google search)

This is what i would have wanted to make music! But I had no idea. Glad you didn't ask me Props!
And, Thank You!! I like old Reason INSTs, but I needed some fresh GUIs and Sound design manipulatiors.... things are getting SPECIFIC for me now, musically
BING!

[unisyn]

>It's a content upgrade, focusing on content.
>There are still a lot of users out there - especially first-time users shopping for DAW's for the very first time - that will see immense value in this.

I don't disagree with this at all. All true, an attractive deal for good bunch of VST/RE alternatives.
But you do understand why so many are concerned as this being considered a major upgrade?

>Props haven't lost the plot, contrary to what some would have you believe

Why are you so sure?

[childofsaturn]

Dang, I just bought R9 upgrade on Aug. 9th, barely over a month ago. Am I out of luck?

I would just send them a nice email, being polite with your request since it wasn't that long ago. I can't speak for them, but my guess is they'd be flexible - but I apologize if I got your hopes up only to disappoint you .

[Exowildebeest]

>Props haven't lost the plot, contrary to what some would have you believe

Why are you so sure?

He works for Propellerhead, haven't you heard

[EnochLight]

I don't disagree with this at all. All true, an attractive deal for good bunch of VST/RE alternatives.
But you do understand why so many are concerned as this being considered a major upgrade?

The only ones I see concerned are ones who have no need for the new content, or aren't getting their checklists of feature requests filled.

>Props haven't lost the plot, contrary to what some would have you believe

Why are you so sure?

Experience...

[plasticfractal]

Is it confirmed that there are no updates to workflow, sequencer window etc? The promo video is only going to show the flashy things like new synths so I get that. However, if this uodate really is purely a content update without and workflow fixes or enhancements, I will honestly be a little disappointed.

[raveled]

To me, this update makes sense. I think that for Reason to grow its market share, Props are wise to focus more (yes, me too) on making their offering (even) better for new-beginners. Lets say I am 16 year old John. I have been saving up for quite some time now and is eager to empty my bank account to purchase my very first DAW (of course I still need some financial support from my parents). So on a Saturday afternoon, me and my mum (who always has regretted she gave up on the piano at the age of 14) make the 20 minutes drive to the local store selling all these programs that will make me the next Avicii. Obviously, we go to a store, because all these The-best-DAW-YouTube videos have left me confused. Besides, my mother says it's a good idea to talk to someone ("who knows this stuff") in person. Once there, 27 year old Jane see the two of us strolling around, and within 30 seconds she realizes that this will be quite an easy sell - if only she can manage to steer the conversation (of "what to look for") in a direction that will hook both mother and son. So what program will Jane demo on her screen (and monitors) in order to maximize the wow-factor, thus making her boss happy? The program with the most advanced sampling/editing capabilities? Or the program with modern (and numerous) stock instruments that sound fantastic?

[avasopht]

If reaktor could do it, so could propellerhead :]

What did Reaktor do?

[chaosroyale]

raveled: sure, but the Scream 4 has been broken (inverted phase) for 14 years (!!) and the combinator hasn't been expanded for more than 10.
If they keep ignoring simple, known issues that affect quality, in favor of simply "more" content, you can understand that users get frustrated.

[fieldframe]

So, maybe this is because UI design is my day job, but I'm just a little bit disappointed with the UI design on Europa and Grain.

There's a lot of detail on both that seems kind of arbitrary compared to the studied detail of classics like Malström or REs like PX7. Look at Malström: Every section of the panel has a consistent background, and the pattern is only broken for another pattern: envelopes all have the same knocked-out background. On PX7, everything follows a set of rules: Sensitivity knobs are all the same. Operator level knobs get a halo to differentiate them..

Meanwhile, Europa is all over the map. Some sections have light backgrounds, some have dark backgrounds, there's a thick border around what appears to be the generator section but nothing else has borders, the filter section has no less than four styles of knob in four sizes... It's a free-for-all!

It's almost as if a product manager said "make it look more like Thor!" without understanding that the reason Thor has lots of different colored panels is to reinforce the fact that those panels are interchangeable, not just to look flashy.

I could also get into spacing, scale, and density, but... maybe later.

[unisyn]

>The only ones I see concerned are ones who have no need for the new content, or aren't getting their checklists of feature requests filled.

Well, then this gap is exactly it.

Now there are so many choices to fulfill the need for new content outside of PH offerings.
As for the feature requests towards the DAW itself there is no alternative.

[MikeMcKew]

I'm still reading through the whole thread, and I know some PH people have replied... these are just my thoughts. I should also say that I've already requested to beta test and I will likely be upgrading on October 25th. I think these new stock devices look fantastic and I'm excited to use them.

While the video only points towards new instrument and sound content, I will be very surprised if R10 doesn't include workflow/engine improvements. The thing about it is, these large and splashy updates are meant to sell Reason (as they should) and things like "we improved the sequencer!" or "here's a new combinator!" aren't sexy enough to sell the program to new users. And even if those types of updates are not included in this version, I'd be willing to bet that there are improvements under the hood. I also agree with the person who said that PH's update cycle seems to be following a sort of tick-tock pattern, where the integer updates are geared towards new stock devices, and the point updates are more geared towards workflow and performance improvements.

I know it's impossible to make everyone happy, but I do think that there has to be some sort of compromise when hitting milestone versions like this. The announcement feels very catered toward new users who are perhaps shopping around for a DAW, and that's perfectly fine. I would love to see Reason's userbase grow. But at the same time, there have to be updates that cater to the existing userbase. In my mind, a perfect update announcement would have included elements for both audiences.

Reason 9.5 was a huge update, and with it came a whole host of new problems that PH hadn't had to deal with up to that point. Adding support for such a huge and diverse format isn't easy, and it will likely be improving constantly from now on. In the meantime, adding more advanced stock devices and expanding stock sample libraries is a good interim solution. And that's all it is - Reason still has a long way to go in terms of fundamental features before it catches up to existing options. Maybe that's not PH's intention to "catch up", but I know that there are tons of users who want to use Reason as their only DAW. I currently use both Pro Tools and Reason, personally.

Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going with this - it ended up more of a musing of current affairs than anything else. As stated from the beginning, I'm excited to try these new devices and I'll be very surprised if there are no performance improvements that come along with R10.

[raccoonboy]

I probably won't get Reason 10 as I have enough stuff to play with for now on Reason 8. I'll probably wait for 11. However, I think Reason 10 is a good upgrade and an important one.

What is the SINGLE most important thing about Reason according to pretty much everyone who uses it?
It's eco-system/workflow.

Now that VSTs have been released and finally out the way, Reason has released some modern REs to get people talking. New users are going to come onboard and they are going to love the new REs and hopefully they'll learn to use them in-depth, including the back of the Rack etc. The more people who are on board with the whole RE thing, then the more the eco-system stays alive and REs overtake VSTs as the format to buy into!

That said, I'd love to see upgrades to the sequencer and the combi