Why actually reason is the worst DAW ever

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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joeyluck
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20 Sep 2017

selig wrote:
20 Sep 2017
joeyluck wrote:
Kontakt in general is a pain. I wish more developers just released their libraries housed in their own plugins or sample players. I'm currently giving Kontakt another chance because there were a few libraries that caught my eye recently. It's such a mess and pain with complicated installation, authorization, and organization. A Browser that doesn't work for all libraries. Then this quick load option that I guess is there compensate for libraries incompatible with the browser. Installations of libraries that vary greatly from one to the other. Many which are looooong installation processes. It's difficult to work across systems with your libraries. It's so clunky and cumbersome. I don't get how or why people put up with it. This is why it's just about the worst to me.
I've had a different experience, finding the NI system to be closer to Reason's than most others. Kontakt works great for my way of thinking/working. Installation is straight forward (just recently upgraded to Komplete 11 with no issues whatsoever).

I have not yet installed third party libraries, since getting Komplete, so maybe that's what you're referring to here?

I really wish Reason had a browser system like NIs btw…
;)


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Yes, I'm referring to the third party ones, which I find more interesting. Easy enough for NI to have their own libraries work well I guess (I would hope). But for third party libraries the the installation process is a pain and inconsistent and the browser is worthless; you can't even add many libraries to the Kontakt browser. Not sure why this is. The only NI library I have is the Factory Selection and that gives me trouble. I authorized it, but it still will cause trouble and decide to go into demo mode.

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davidvilla
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20 Sep 2017

I have more than a few 3rd party Kontakt libraries. No activation issues EVER. I'm really curious how some people have problems with something I've never ever EVER had a problem with. Like the people that claim VST is unstable and not worth the hassle...and then good lord, the iLok drama queens. Haven't had any issues with ANYTHING. I wonder what the difference is? :puf_wink:

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esselfortium
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20 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I have more than a few 3rd party Kontakt libraries. No activation issues EVER. I'm really curious how some people have problems with something I've never ever EVER had a problem with. Like the people that claim VST is unstable and not worth the hassle...and then good lord, the iLok drama queens. Haven't had any issues with ANYTHING. I wonder what the difference is? :puf_wink:
I myself wonder how you've had so many DAW-related issues I've never experienced. :puf_wink:
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Oquasec
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20 Sep 2017

Legit plugins will not be unofficially modified by the not developers of the not software you're using.
Plus side of RE & AAX already. Vst is the most widespread utility format however.
Vst was the first, AAX was the second and RE is the most recent one at the 3rd spot.
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avasopht
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20 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I have more than a few 3rd party Kontakt libraries. No activation issues EVER. I'm really curious how some people have problems with something I've never ever EVER had a problem with. Like the people that claim VST is unstable and not worth the hassle...and then good lord, the iLok drama queens. Haven't had any issues with ANYTHING. I wonder what the difference is? :puf_wink:
I've never ever ever had a problem with RE's, but there's been a few people on this forum who have had consistent issues.

I think that is the answer to your question. Some issues simply don't hit all computer configurations and users equally. That is why breaking bugs might not show up in a beta test but are revealed after release when a wider population has used it.

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EnochLight
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20 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I have more than a few 3rd party Kontakt libraries. No activation issues EVER. I'm really curious how some people have problems with something I've never ever EVER had a problem with. Like the people that claim VST is unstable and not worth the hassle...and then good lord, the iLok drama queens. Haven't had any issues with ANYTHING. I wonder what the difference is? :puf_wink:
It's funny how that works, isn't it? So many people don't seem to have any problems at all with Reason, or how VST's are implemented in it... and then good lord, the drama (for instance, in this thread). I wonder what that difference is? :puf_wink: :lol:
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davidvilla
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20 Sep 2017

EnochLight wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I wonder what that difference is? :puf_wink: :lol:
Lol THAT difference is that some of us want to use Kontakt multitimbrally and a lot of us want to run more than a few VSTs at a time without Reason croaking. Next question?

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Oquasec
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20 Sep 2017

I wonder if Reason acts weird with non asio4all drivers or just the older asio drivers of older audio interfaces in general?
Like my discontinued 2i2 and ur22 models :]
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4filegate
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20 Sep 2017

Ahornberg wrote:
20 Sep 2017
But what's the absolutely best DAW ever :?:
roots are dialogue with all interested groups, it is not possible to do what is right for everyone, and one should avoid trying to do so

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joeyluck
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20 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I have more than a few 3rd party Kontakt libraries. No activation issues EVER. I'm really curious how some people have problems with something I've never ever EVER had a problem with. Like the people that claim VST is unstable and not worth the hassle...and then good lord, the iLok drama queens. Haven't had any issues with ANYTHING. I wonder what the difference is? :puf_wink:
Clearly just different experiences. And different experiences is what forms our opinions. And our opinions is what drives us to use or not use something; to buy it or not buy it. And not everybody buys the same stuff because of those different experiences. But alas, here we all are in a Reason forum because we decided to purchase and use this DAW. And people are participating in a forum dedicated to that DAW because they are enthusiastic about it.

I'll tell you about my opinion of Kontakt when it comes up. But I sure am not going to go out of my way to join some Kontakt forum to tell users who are doing just fine with Kontakt how it is the worst.

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joeyluck
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20 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
EnochLight wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I wonder what that difference is? :puf_wink: :lol:
Lol THAT difference is that some of us want to use Kontakt multitimbrally and a lot of us want to run more than a few VSTs at a time without Reason croaking. Next question?
I'm with you on the multitimbral support :thumbs_up: That needs to happen soon along with MPE support so I can better use my Seaboard Block with Reason. I'm going to be using Garageband part of the time for a current project just so I can utilize the full capability of the Seaboard.

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QVprod
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20 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
EnochLight wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I wonder what that difference is? :puf_wink: :lol:
Lol THAT difference is that some of us want to use Kontakt multitimbrally and a lot of us want to run more than a few VSTs at a time without Reason croaking. Next question?
Actually there's no difference. In both cases its an "issue" that affects some but not all.

The multitimbral issue only affects people who use multitimbral plugins. How many VSTs you can run in Reason heavily depends on what VSTs you're using. Beat Zampler or Xpand! obviously have considerably lower CPU usage than Kontakt or Omnisphere. And of course not everyone's trying to run 20 VST instances. It is Reason after all.

On the flip side there are clearly some Kontakt libraries that have long activation processes like the Output libraries in the tutorial videos Joey posted earlier in the thread. Those libraries have two completely separate registration processes (one for Output and one for NI) before you add the library to Kontakt. And then you have to open Kontakt standalone first (according to Output's own directions) to finish the installation. Obviously not all 3rd party libraries are that complex to install, but that one is.

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Oquasec
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20 Sep 2017

Putting Vst support into Reason without bricking it, while making sure you could load a good bit of instance of em is what the impossible was.
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davidvilla
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20 Sep 2017

QVprod wrote:
20 Sep 2017

On the flip side there are clearly some Kontakt libraries that have long activation processes like the Output libraries in the tutorial videos Joey posted earlier in the thread. Those libraries have two completely separate registration processes (one for Output and one for NI) before you add the library to Kontakt. And then you have to open Kontakt standalone first (according to Output's own directions) to finish the installation. Obviously not all 3rd party libraries are that complex to install, but that one is.
But I know you know, QVprod, that it really isn't that difficult!

Output has a hub, just like Arturia, XLN, IK Multimedia, East West, Waves. So, my beloved Reason users, it's time to get used to hubs because all of these guys make awesome stuff.

The only difference is that with these Kontakt libraries, yes, in addition to activating the library with the 3rd party's hub (Output's process is the outlier because 99% of these kontakt 3rd parties don't have hubs, but there is some form of activation with the 3rd party in most cases anyway), you also have to activate it within NI's service center, which, if you have any familiarity with 3rd party Kontakt libraries, you'd know the process isn't rocket science. Also, you don't have to batch re-save a library if you don't want to. Saved you a step, you're welcome.

koshal
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20 Sep 2017

I just ran into this issue and it's caused me to move production away from Reason again (back to Studio One) until they get VST performance sorted out. I wasn't able to finish my last song even with heavy bouncing. And yes I had a s*** ton of VST instruments and effects going.

I vehemently disagree with the premise that this makes Reason the worst DAW ever though. Far from it, Reason is amazing and has some really great features I miss everytime I work in another DAW.

I think with VST support now some people (like me) will exclusively use all VST instrument and effects and to be honest that's completely our choice (and our right). It's totally valid way to work and it can be done with other DAWs

But I think the problem though is this is a brand new major feature integrated into a very mature codebase that probably was never architected to support it. I mean, most other major DAWS were built from the ground up with VST support from the beginning. Meaning overtime a long period of time performance has been tuned and optimized.

This is v1 of a brand new world and Reason is not really ready to support a session that's 20-40 VST instances now unless you have a super computer, but I think it will eventually get there.

I think *for now* VST support should be viewed only as SUPPLEMENTING what Reason has done well for years (modular, well integrated, awesome performance of internal and RE devices in the Rack)

New people who come into Reason land for the first time since 9.5 just view it okay this is like every other DAW but actually it isn't and you get threads like this.

If you embrace the Reason-ness of it and use primarily internal devices and REs then you'll be fine. If you're like me and have transitioned to all VST instruments and effects well you'll probably need to hold off for a bit. I'm going back to S1 for awhile because I realize VST performance is not ready for what I want to do with it. I will definitely come back though if R10 or any other future releases fixes the performance.

Don't lose mental energy or worry about what your Reason can't do with VST yet.

If it doesn't work yet then pick a new DAW that does and revisit Reason when it's worked out. That's my plan..and in the meantime I'll be making a crapload of music too :thumbs_up:

kitekrazy
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21 Sep 2017

Oquasec wrote:
19 Sep 2017
Reason is a gigantic modular system that happens to be a daw.
Reaper is a daw.
This ^

Reaper is an awesome DAW as well.

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PhutureD
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21 Sep 2017

Miss Controllerism wrote:
17 Sep 2017
really upset to say but everything its explained here in my video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LySCF-s ... e=youtu.be

In terms of performance , these new versions of Reason as from 6.5 upwards seem to perform poorer than the
previous version and seems like it gets a bit worse with each version. The best and most stable version for me was version 5. After that I started to receive the dreaded
"computer too slow" warning. This should be the 1st thing in line which props need to urgently address. By not upgrading
, i am missing out on new devices but i wont as long as this major problem exists. To workaround I bounce as many tracks
as possible to audio, continue working, then when the warnings appear again, bounce again, and so on and so forth. A friend of mine has a very elaborate pc setup with Cubase with maximum ram high-end cpu, ssd's , nvidia quaddro cards etc so that he can run those massive Kontakt libraries, other huge libraries of instruments, do 3d rendering and have more than 120 tracks in a project, I'm sure will handle Reason 9.5 like a piece of cake with a setup like that but for me to spend over 3000 euro on a workstation , which is what he spent , or to spend even much less that half of that, does not justify the piece of mind I might have, knowing that my DSP issues will be non-existent, because in the end, his pc crashed and could not do any work at all, while i could still carry on churning out regular beats. On my very modest setup , when i m very creative I can make a lot of music and post previews of full - length tracks regularly , on 3 different soundcloud profiles all the while entering as many remixes competitions as I can,, and my pc dates back to exactly 2005, so there should be no excuse for anyone to do much better that that on a better system than what I have, which is what I assume that a lot of producers here and out there have:) What Im saying is , there is always a workaround, and at the same time, Props should do their homework properly and not offer these buggy releases , thereby frustrating the users. Still , for me Reason is not the worst ,its the best:) I will upgrade once I start reading the majority of positive reviews about Reason's performance.


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Miss Controllerism
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21 Sep 2017

joeyluck wrote:
20 Sep 2017
davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017


Lol THAT difference is that some of us want to use Kontakt multitimbrally and a lot of us want to run more than a few VSTs at a time without Reason croaking. Next question?
I'm with you on the multitimbral support :thumbs_up: That needs to happen soon along with MPE support so I can better use my Seaboard Block with Reason. I'm going to be using Garageband part of the time for a current project just so I can utilize the full capability of the Seaboard.

MPE ahahahha you expeting that reason implement MPE??? !! no way propellerhead comes always last regarding innovation...

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Loque
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21 Sep 2017

Miss Controllerism wrote:
21 Sep 2017
joeyluck wrote:
20 Sep 2017


I'm with you on the multitimbral support :thumbs_up: That needs to happen soon along with MPE support so I can better use my Seaboard Block with Reason. I'm going to be using Garageband part of the time for a current project just so I can utilize the full capability of the Seaboard.

MPE ahahahha you expeting that reason implement MPE??? !! no way propellerhead comes always last regarding innovation...
Multidimensional Polyphon Expression? I just use Distributor and mono setups for that. Therefor i have complete control over each individual note played and the sound it creates, especially if it comes to filters tracked by keyboard or special FX, like each its own delays, pitches, frequencey shifts, reverbs and more that do not interfere with other audio signals. Not sure, i really see any benefit from having MPE, well maybe for live performances or direct recordings with special keyboards...
Reason12, Win10

Ostermilk
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21 Sep 2017

Hands up everyone that thinks Reason has poopy pants!

Well, if you're one of those with their hands up then your pants are probably poopier.

</Thread>

EdGrip
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21 Sep 2017

Completely separate from the thread, but PhutureD - I really think you'd see a lot of benefit from a new computer. You wouldn't have to spend much at all to get a big upgrade on your current setup.
My current PC is a workstation laptop I bought in 2015, with Windows 10, and it's never crashed. I don't think Reason has either, though I do have a nagging thought that maybe it did once. Keep it simple, keep it clean and focused. Don't fear the upgrade!

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normen
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21 Sep 2017

EnochLight wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I think Normen's post sums things up nicely. Perhaps the meaning is lost on you, though? Not sure:
Come on, I think Miss understood that its obvious that the fish is the most inferior animal :)

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EnochLight
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21 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
Lol THAT difference is that some of us want to use Kontakt multitimbrally and a lot of us want to run more than a few VSTs at a time without Reason croaking. Next question?
Lol and yet some of us couldn't care less about running Kontakt multitimbrally or have any issues running the amount of VST's we need. ;) Again, see how that works?
normen wrote:
21 Sep 2017
EnochLight wrote:
20 Sep 2017
I think Normen's post sums things up nicely. Perhaps the meaning is lost on you, though? Not sure:
Come on, I think Miss understood that its obvious that the fish is the most inferior animal :)
Lol!
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QVprod
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21 Sep 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Sep 2017
QVprod wrote:
20 Sep 2017

On the flip side there are clearly some Kontakt libraries that have long activation processes like the Output libraries in the tutorial videos Joey posted earlier in the thread. Those libraries have two completely separate registration processes (one for Output and one for NI) before you add the library to Kontakt. And then you have to open Kontakt standalone first (according to Output's own directions) to finish the installation. Obviously not all 3rd party libraries are that complex to install, but that one is.
But I know you know, QVprod, that it really isn't that difficult!

Output has a hub, just like Arturia, XLN, IK Multimedia, East West, Waves. So, my beloved Reason users, it's time to get used to hubs because all of these guys make awesome stuff.

The only difference is that with these Kontakt libraries, yes, in addition to activating the library with the 3rd party's hub (Output's process is the outlier because 99% of these kontakt 3rd parties don't have hubs, but there is some form of activation with the 3rd party in most cases anyway), you also have to activate it within NI's service center, which, if you have any familiarity with 3rd party Kontakt libraries, you'd know the process isn't rocket science. Also, you don't have to batch re-save a library if you don't want to. Saved you a step, you're welcome.
Not rocket science and not difficult to those of us who are used to it , but can be frustrating to someone who isn't. Activation is generally more straightforward for 3rd party libraries and companies that have hubs are generally their own set of independent plugins just like the companies you mentioned. If a Reason user's first Kontakt library is an Output one, then I can understand the annoyance when you compare it to the simplicity of how REs and Refills work. Then there's licensed Kontakt player libraries and regular Kontakt libraries where one requires the full version of Kontakt and the other doesn't. There is a slight learning curve.

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PhutureD
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21 Sep 2017

EdGrip wrote:
21 Sep 2017
Completely separate from the thread, but PhutureD - I really think you'd see a lot of benefit from a new computer. You wouldn't have to spend much at all to get a big upgrade on your current setup.
My current PC is a workstation laptop I bought in 2015, with Windows 10, and it's never crashed. I don't think Reason has either, though I do have a nagging thought that maybe it did once. Keep it simple, keep it clean and focused. Don't fear the upgrade!
Me too, i have been having a bit of unfortune regarding upgrades, which is why it has taken me a very long time
to put a new machine together.Also parts in SA cost 10 times, on average than in other countries due to our degrading currency , the Rand. So i have to save up for a very long time first before i can buy anything. I do though , have a brand new box , amd bulldog 6 - core 16gb ddr 3 1600mhz , nvidia quadro 4000,
2 x 2tb drives. ( which by now , is probably obsolete ) What happened was , I was busy swapping out the stock cpu fan with a new one and I broke one of the pins. It has been almost 3 years since that incident and have only now recently , with the last 6 months been able to replace the cpu. The mobo also took a hit during my attempted fan install , so that will need to be placed too , as well as the power supply ,which is a 550 watt and too weak for that setup ( I cant risk any shortages at this stage so im not gonna switch it on till i have a decent supply and a UPS) . So maybe after a files my tax returns and hopefully I receive some cash back from revenue services those upgrade plans can go ahead but will need to wait just a tad longer:) Im not putting it off, it is happening , just not very quickly.

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