Reason SSL Mixer Hardware Controller

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tanni
Posts: 127
Joined: 19 Jul 2015

Post 10 Oct 2020

kuhliloach wrote:
10 Oct 2020
Audient's knob:
here is a test about this knob function of audient interfaces (sorry its in german):

https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelans ... est/2.html

it says in the test that the function of the scroll control knob working very bad and not acceptable with software DAW and plugins. In this way the function is unusable.

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pedrocaetanos
Posts: 251
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Location: LX Portugal

Post 10 Oct 2020

kuhliloach wrote:
10 Oct 2020
Audient's knob:
Besides the nob control I mentioned above I also have an audient, an iD14.
For the purpose intended in this thread, the Audient is mostly useless without additional software.
When the knob is in iD mode it works as a mouse wheel, which mostly scrolls the rack up and down.
EDIT: Reason is not in the list of supported DAWs, that's why it's mostly useless: https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/ar ... l-Control-
But there is a software that makes the mouse wheel work as the Nob Control (put the mouse over a knob, and spin the wheel to spin the knob). It's a simple software, I have tried and it works. With that software installed the Audient knob works about the same as the Nob Control.
It's reasonably big, metallic, it's a nice knob.
I used that to kind of test the overall solution before buying the Nob Control.
Now the problem is that I changed computer, don't have it installed anymore, and looking in my archives I'm not finding that software nor I remember it's name.
Regarding Audient interfaces, altough without additional software the knob isn't magic, overall as an audio interface they are great, but latency isn't top tier as with an RME or a recent MOTU, I would say second tier.
But preamps are some of the best, same as in their ASP8024 top studio console.

PS: in case someone likes the the Audient iD knob and wants to buy one, beware that on iD22, altough the knob looks the same it doesn't have that feature. All the other "iD" interfaces do have it.
Last edited by pedrocaetanos on 10 Oct 2020, edited 2 times in total.
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tanni
Posts: 127
Joined: 19 Jul 2015

Post 10 Oct 2020

thanks for the good explanation pedrocaetanos.
If I understand right on their website, the nobcontrol knob use an own software ?
...And have you to click and hold the mousebutton with the mouse before you can use the knob or its just only showing with the mousecursor on the element like fader or poti.
Is the function really smooth ? Whats with the two switches on the nobcontrol....have you to switch every time if you want to use it with a fader or poti for example ?

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pedrocaetanos
Posts: 251
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Location: LX Portugal

Post 10 Oct 2020

tanni wrote:
10 Oct 2020
thanks for the good explanation pedrocaetanos.
If I understand right on their website, the nobcontrol knob use an own software ?
...And have you to click and hold the mousebutton with the mouse before you can use the knob or its just only showing with the mousecursor on the element like fader or poti.
Is the function really smooth ? Whats with the two switches on the nobcontrol....have you to switch every time if you want to use it with a fader or poti for example ?
Sorry, I had the reply to you pending.

I'm on Windows 10 but I expect this to also work on other versions and Mac (but please double check the compatibilities on the site).
This is completly plug and play because it's seen by the OS as a normal mouse, and additional drivers or software are needed.
I expect this to work forever (as long as hardware doesn't broke, but this is not fragile).
The software they have is not a device driver, it is for doing even more sophisticated stuff, don't remember the details as I don't use it - to operate Reason's knobs and faders is not necessary at all.

Reason knobs expect us to do a vertical up/down movent with the mouse, starting in the "center" of the knob.
With this device, when we turn the physical knob, it's firmware converts the rotation movement to a vertica movent, as if it were a mouse.
It has 3 modes: knob or slider, and when in slider mode, either vertical or horizontal. Choosing between modes is simply by using the switches on the sides.
So, in a very simple way, it works with everything in Reason, apart from press buttons.
It can also handle mixer faders of course, just not as user-friendly as a real motorized fader, but it's a global solution with a one knob solution.
In any case, mixing consoles from the 1950's/60's had rotary knobs instead of faders, so it's like a vintage console :D

You don't need to click the mouse. You move the mouse pointer until is over the screen knob that you want to turn, and then you turn the hardware knob, and it just works.

The hardwary quality is really good, in my point of view.
It's made of real wood, with shiny vernish, all edges and corners are rounded.
It has a bit of handmade feel (which I believe it rather is).
The knob is huge (about 50% more wider and taller than Audient knob).
Maybe it's made of brass, it feels cold on touch, real metal, gives a pro feeling (Audient knob I believe is made of aluminium, which is rather warm on toush, but still metal).
The finish is non-shiny brushed metal, extra smooth on touch, without being slippery.
It's golden colored, which together with the wood, gives the whole thing a very vintage look.

In terms of action, it comes buttery smooth. I found it too much, I almost couldn't feel how much it was turning.
But it has a screw to regulate how tight the turning mechanism is, and I changed it to tighter, less smooth, but still smooth. In other words: you are able to regulate it to fit your taste (this you cannot do with the Audient knob, but it has a nice action altough not in the same league. It is stepped, whihc is nice in a volume knob, but the steps aren't very strong. It's just slightly wobbly, however, but nothing serious. The NOB control, on the other hand, has totally zero wobble, really firm).

Regarding the switches: you only need to use them when you want to change from acting on knobs to faders (or vice-versa).
Say you act on 10 knobs, you do that by moving mouse pointer (no click) then turning knob, each one. That simple.
But then you want to act on a slider. You use the left switch, to change from knob mode, to slider mode.
Now you can act on 10 sliders, just by moving mouse pointer and then turning knob.
If you want to get back to acting kbos, you have to use left switch again to put it on knob mode.
Right switch is for changing between horizontal slider or vertical slider modes. Let's say these are sub-modes of slider mode, This doesn't matter when you are in knob mode.
There is also the possibility of jumping between knobs with double tapping on the switches, so the manual says (without additional software).
But I believe this is based on Windows current control object focus, that afaded rectangle sorrounding objets in (some) windows that you can make jump between objects using the tab key (I believe Mac also has all this).
Since Reason as far as I know doesn't have this concept, this doesn't work in Reason - you have to use the mouse to change the affected knob.
If reason supported this you could jump between knobs without touching the mouse!

I believe the NOB Control is handmade by a single guy, in Greece.
There is a waiting time and the demand is big (possibly not many are being made), usually the there is no stock and we have to register our email to receive a warning when there is a new batch in stock.
Sometimes the new batch gets all sold out in just a few hours (it happened to me), and we have to wait some weeks until there is a new batch - and be quick ordering!
In these COVID age, delivery time is atrocious: weeks! I waited a month, and I'm in european community, as well as Greece.
But the guy selling this is a nice guy and gives a good support - he always replied quickly and helpfuly regarding my fears of weather my NOB had went to the black hole of the shipping galaxy.
In terms of technical support, I never needed (I ordered this in the mid of the first COVID wave, maybe I have it for half a year).

This is a bit expensive for what amounts to just one knob, but it exudes quality and quality craftmanship. I feel it's well worth the price, and if it were made at this quality level by a known brand I believe it would be twice or triple the price.

I recommend it. This can be ALL that is needed to control Reason in a hands on way.
Additionaly, one fader would be nice, just to mimic the real beaviour (cause the NOB can also handle faders).
Maybe I will eventually get X-Touch One or Icon Nano for that.

There is a SOS review for the NOB:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/nob-control-nob

And by the way: this whole conversation should be on another thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7500108

Regarding the software to make Audient knob useful with Reason, I really cannot find it.
SOme time ago I had a hard-disk malfunctioning and lost all data. The time window between backups made me loose quite some days of data, maybe I had downloaded it in that time.
Anyway, I would like to have it again: any help in identifying that (Windows) software that converts mouse wheel into knob movement would be appreciated.
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pedrocaetanos
Posts: 251
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Location: LX Portugal

Post 10 Oct 2020

So, I quoted all these nob and audient related posts to the other thread.
I think further questions / comments would arguably be best there.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7500108
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tanni
Posts: 127
Joined: 19 Jul 2015

Post 10 Oct 2020

Oh man, you have fully satisfied all my questions at great length. Much thanks for this. I understand now in detail how this work.
I think this nob thing is the solution for me. :thumbs_up:

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gullum
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Location: Faroe Islands

Post 12 Oct 2020

delineation wrote:
05 Oct 2020
gullum wrote:
14 Sep 2020
the closest I think we can get to an SSL controller is using and Makie, icon qcon or behringer xtouch with the softube console 1

I have the Icon combination the icon controllers control all faders solo mute loop click while the Consol 1 takes care of comp gate eq send master I hardly ever use the mouse for anything SSL now
IMG_7506.JPG
This is great! I also have a Qcon pro g2. Do you have a template file you could send me? I'd like to see how others set it up.
hi I am now using the MJ X-touch Trinity files, and they work perfect with my Icon's. My guess it tht you are doing something wrong when setting them up

delineation
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Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 12 Oct 2020

How wrong can removing one folder and replacing it with another go?

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Italophile
Posts: 66
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 12 Oct 2020

delineation wrote:
12 Oct 2020
How wrong can removing one folder and replacing it with another go?
Evidently you didn’t understand the instructions. I don’t use any Mackie stuff so just read through the instructions provided on jaexx.com. They are pretty straightforward.

“ copy the “Remote” folder to the “Propellerhead Software” folder”
This will merge the contents of the two folders replacing just the 6 files that have the same names. It will not replace the entire contents of the original folder with the new one.

After restarting Reason the expected entries are available.
Screenshot 2020-10-12 213906.png
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delineation
Posts: 20
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 12 Oct 2020

Thanks for the clarification, but I’m not understanding why this will only replace the 2 files and not all of them when Mac OS ask me if I want to replace the existing folder.

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Italophile
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Post 12 Oct 2020

delineation wrote:
12 Oct 2020
Thanks for the clarification, but I’m not understanding why this will only replace the 2 files and not all of them when Mac OS ask me if I want to replace the existing folder.
I always thought macOS was dumb, didn't realize it was that dumb.

If that is the case then just copy across the contents of the two Mackie folders.

delineation
Posts: 20
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 12 Oct 2020

That’s what I did to begin with. The odd thing it that the example gif on his site is for Mac. I’ll give it a shot after copying the original file to the desktop.

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Italophile
Posts: 66
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Post 12 Oct 2020

delineation wrote:
12 Oct 2020
That’s what I did to begin with. The odd thing it that the example gif on his site is for Mac. I’ll give it a shot after copying the original file to the desktop.
Perhaps this will help: https://www.howtogeek.com/198043/how-to ... or%20Linux.

delineation
Posts: 20
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 12 Oct 2020

Italophile wrote:
12 Oct 2020
delineation wrote:
12 Oct 2020
That’s what I did to begin with. The odd thing it that the example gif on his site is for Mac. I’ll give it a shot after copying the original file to the desktop.
Perhaps this will help: https://www.howtogeek.com/198043/how-to ... or%20Linux.
Brilliant! Thanks. I'll do this when I get home.

delineation
Posts: 20
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 13 Oct 2020

Italophile wrote:
12 Oct 2020
delineation wrote:
12 Oct 2020
That’s what I did to begin with. The odd thing it that the example gif on his site is for Mac. I’ll give it a shot after copying the original file to the desktop.
Perhaps this will help: https://www.howtogeek.com/198043/how-to ... or%20Linux.
That was the missing piece.
I will say that after spending some time with it tonight, the Jaexx Remote files worked about as well "out of the box" with my iCon Qcon Pro G2 as the original Mackie Remote files. I would also say that the Jaexx was a little too hot on the meters. The master meter on my iCon was pegged in the red while Reason was bouncing at around -12dB VU at the Reason master meter. This was congruent with ether PPM, VU, or VU/ PPM modes engaged in Reason while using the Jaexx Remote. Channel strip meters where nice to see in the Jaexx as they danced nicely, but they were also too hot getting close to yellow on the Qcon while only near -20dB VU in Reason on the channel strip. (-10dB on the master) The master meter on my iCon followed the meter scale according to my selection in Reason while using the Mackie map and was hot only by an LED or two. SMPTE code was a bit of an eye sore while using the Jaexx as it added an extra 0 decimal between numbers on the icon, while Mackie left the space between numbers blank. All my buttons triggered the same features as the Mackie Remote while using the Jaexx, and didn't notice any of the bells and whistles touted in the Jaexx page description, though I may have to dive a little further. Perhaps for Mackie Control Universal Pro, and Behringer X-Touch users this is a must try, but iCon users shouldn't expect much. The iCon has only minor things left to be desired when using Reason and the Mackie Remote files integrate well, but would be leaps and bounds in the way of work flow had the Jaexx worked as well with the iCon as it does with the X-Touch. If the icon allowed for QWERTY mapping, It would be ahead of the pack for sure. Perhaps someone has or will take the time to dive into a custom Mackie Remote file for a Qcon Pro G2 the same way Jaexx has done for X-touch. NOTE: this was done using the Trinity Jaexx files and not the 8 channel Jaexx files. I'll give that a go at some point soon to see if anything is different. Thanks for all the help, and I hope this post helps others in the future! Cheers!

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gullum
Posts: 833
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Faroe Islands

Post 13 Oct 2020

delineation wrote:
13 Oct 2020
Italophile wrote:
12 Oct 2020


Perhaps this will help: https://www.howtogeek.com/198043/how-to ... or%20Linux.
That was the missing piece.
I will say that after spending some time with it tonight, the Jaexx Remote files worked about as well "out of the box" with my iCon Qcon Pro G2 as the original Mackie Remote files. I would also say that the Jaexx was a little too hot on the meters. The master meter on my iCon was pegged in the red while Reason was bouncing at around -12dB VU at the Reason master meter. This was congruent with ether PPM, VU, or VU/ PPM modes engaged in Reason while using the Jaexx Remote. Channel strip meters where nice to see in the Jaexx as they danced nicely, but they were also too hot getting close to yellow on the Qcon while only near -20dB VU in Reason on the channel strip. (-10dB on the master) The master meter on my iCon followed the meter scale according to my selection in Reason while using the Mackie map and was hot only by an LED or two. SMPTE code was a bit of an eye sore while using the Jaexx as it added an extra 0 decimal between numbers on the icon, while Mackie left the space between numbers blank. All my buttons triggered the same features as the Mackie Remote while using the Jaexx, and didn't notice any of the bells and whistles touted in the Jaexx page description, though I may have to dive a little further. Perhaps for Mackie Control Universal Pro, and Behringer X-Touch users this is a must try, but iCon users shouldn't expect much. The iCon has only minor things left to be desired when using Reason and the Mackie Remote files integrate well, but would be leaps and bounds in the way of work flow had the Jaexx worked as well with the iCon as it does with the X-Touch. If the icon allowed for QWERTY mapping, It would be ahead of the pack for sure. Perhaps someone has or will take the time to dive into a custom Mackie Remote file for a Qcon Pro G2 the same way Jaexx has done for X-touch. NOTE: this was done using the Trinity Jaexx files and not the 8 channel Jaexx files. I'll give that a go at some point soon to see if anything is different. Thanks for all the help, and I hope this post helps others in the future! Cheers!
There are to lines in the lua file that can be changed to fix the VU not being to hot. I changet them and now the VU display same or close to what reason is displaying on screen
change these values

Code: Select all

k_min_peak_value=0
-- [Propellerhead Comment] FL: Peak max value for vertical. For horizontal it's 0xd.
k_max_peak_value=24
k_peak_meter_update_interval=50
To these

Code: Select all

k_min_peak_value=0
-- [Propellerhead Comment] FL: Peak max value for vertical. For horizontal it's 0xd.
k_max_peak_value=12
k_peak_meter_update_interval=20
The lines are almost at the top of the file

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