Reason SSL Mixer Hardware Controller

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
Fotu
Posts: 77
Joined: 11 Jan 2017

Post 23 Jan 2020

amcjen wrote:
23 Jan 2020
So after much thinking and talking with others, I think I'm going to move to another area of audio and try a product in a different space. It's back to the drawing board and trying to determine where exactly there are holes in this wild, wonderful world of music creation, and see if there's a product that could solve it.
Sorry (for the Reason community) for this turn amcjen, but happy for you... there's a lot of other needs out there to impact (even more deeply?) with your creativity and skills. Tech ebbs and flows. I'll be eager to see what you address next.

User avatar
amcjen
Posts: 211
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

Post 23 Jan 2020

Proboscis wrote:
23 Jan 2020
amcjen wrote:
23 Jan 2020
What that means as someone considering building a business focused specifically on this DAW? It's a non-starter. I just don't see the ability to make a viable, sustainable business focusing on only serving a small DAW company
I've enjoyed reading this thread, and have refrained from commenting, since you were so enthusiastic. But what you've stated, and the reasons given, are precisely how I've felt about this being a viable business idea from the outset. However, I felt that you would reach this conclusion eventually, and the decision you are making is for the best. There can be no profitability in hardware support exclusively for an obscure DAW like Reason.

There are no reliable marketshare data sets on DAW usage, but visit any general music forum, and discussions about Reason are few. Everyone I know in the industry still think of Reason as that cool old plugin that never recorded audio and wasn't VST, so they couldn't use it in their regular DAW with ease. And as for Reason's future - who knows ? It's in a state of transition between owners, an investment opportunity in which the current IP owners have absolutely no interest in this industry.

Rack Extension developers are dropping off, because they too see no viable future in coding for the platform. The company has never put any effort into supporting third party partnerships, their development rollouts are at a glacial pace, and their social media presence is underwhelming compared to other businesses in a similar marketplace. A quick look on Youtube between Reason's channel and Behringer's is a great example of their disinterest in creating a 'social buzz'. Whether this is by design or because those empowered to manage this have no idea how to grow hype in the 21st century (I suspect the latter), but Reason-As-VST just doesn't have the market universally excited.

However, that's not to say there isn't a market for a generic console controller. High quality sliding pots, and the basics that everyone would use, like pan, EQ and AUX FX. It actually wouldn't matter what the encoders were called, better they say nothing, to allow the end user to set their own control. Of course then you're in a new marketplace of 'yet another controller', albeit one that is laid out specifically for mixing only. Are there many on the market ? I looked a few years ago in the sub $1k price and there weren't any. I think Behringer have since released a couple, but I'm not sure if they are DAW controllers or actual mini consoles, I think they are the latter.
I appreciate your response. I realized too that it would be a stretch commercially-speaking, thus the idea to just build it for fun on the side (which is how this whole crazy thread started!)

There are a few pretty interesting DAW controllers specifically for mixing. If you're squarely in the Protools space, you'd do well with an S3. Over the $1k budget, but its integration is stellar b/c it uses the EuCon protocol, not HUI/Mackie Control. Its knobs are not great, but that clearly isn't hurting their sales. I think the PreSonus FaderPort is interesting, as is the Behringer X-Touch, for the price points you mentioned. If I were to buy a controller today specifically for mixing, I'd probably buy the Softube double set. It gets closest to having a true channel strip on 20 channels, and they have just stellar channelstrip plugins that I could see becoming my new go-to. It feels closest to the Reason SSL promise. Though together they're a bit over $1k. The Icon QCon Pro X could be interesting too, though I didn't care for the feel on it.

I'm hoping the best for Reason! Maybe they'll turn a corner or something. Or maybe Softube will buy Propellerheads, since they're both in Stockholm. That would be an interesting twist.

User avatar
amcjen
Posts: 211
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

Post 23 Jan 2020

Fotu wrote:
23 Jan 2020
amcjen wrote:
23 Jan 2020
So after much thinking and talking with others, I think I'm going to move to another area of audio and try a product in a different space. It's back to the drawing board and trying to determine where exactly there are holes in this wild, wonderful world of music creation, and see if there's a product that could solve it.
Sorry (for the Reason community) for this turn amcjen, but happy for you... there's a lot of other needs out there to impact (even more deeply?) with your creativity and skills. Tech ebbs and flows. I'll be eager to see what you address next.
Thank you! We'll find something of note! And when I do, I'll be back to see how you all think about it. May not be Reason-centric, but will always be Reason-compatible. :)

Steedus
Posts: 474
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne, AU

Post 23 Jan 2020

Haha, What a difference a few days can make! :P
14 Jan 2020
... So, after much thought and talking through it with my husband--I've decided to go at this effort full-time for the next six months, culminating in a crowdfunding sale...
23 Jan 2020
... this product area just too saturated to move forward in any commercial way. So after much thinking and talking with others, I think I'm going to move to another area of audio and try a product in a different space...
Totally understand though and don't blame you. I'll be honest and say while this thread was really interesting and I would've loved to see something come to fruition, I wouldn't have been a backer/customer. As an amateur I'm positive it would've been way out of my budget for something I do sporadically in my spare time. But it would've been cool to see. Good luck with whatever you do.

User avatar
Slappy
Posts: 6
Joined: 18 Sep 2015

Post 25 Jan 2020

Hi Allison, I just want to say thank you for sharing your process in this thread. I really enjoyed reading about this project over the last several months. Please keep us posted with any other Reason/DAW/music-related projects you are considering. Onwards and upwards!
Derek Fazakas

jjtguitar
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 May 2018

Post 25 Jan 2020

amcjen wrote:
23 Jan 2020

There are a few pretty interesting DAW controllers specifically for mixing. If you're squarely in the Protools space, you'd do well with an S3. Over the $1k budget, but its integration is stellar b/c it uses the EuCon protocol, not HUI/Mackie Control. Its knobs are not great, but that clearly isn't hurting their sales. I think the PreSonus FaderPort is interesting, as is the Behringer X-Touch, for the price points you mentioned. If I were to buy a controller today specifically for mixing, I'd probably buy the Softube double set. It gets closest to having a true channel strip on 20 channels, and they have just stellar channelstrip plugins that I could see becoming my new go-to. It feels closest to the Reason SSL promise. Though together they're a bit over $1k. The Icon QCon Pro X could be interesting too, though I didn't care for the feel on it.
I have been following this thread for a while, loved watching the processes and the thinking unfold. It would have been so cool if the project had been able to work, but I certainly get what you're saying regarding the feasibility of the project moving forward. Thank you so much for all that you have done through this project, and for sharing it. It has been very interesting!

That said, thanks for those suggestions (above) for a good DAW controller. I am interested in finding a good hardware controller to use with Reason and any other DAWs I might dabble with, so getting an idea of what is good or not is great!

All the best for your future endeavours, and I can't wait to hear what you're going to do next!

DParris
Posts: 57
Joined: 09 May 2019

Post 25 Jan 2020

amcjen wrote:
23 Jan 2020
The DAW controller market is saturated, and becoming more tightly-bound to software every year. I don't see it getting more open--just more closed. If Reason were at the level of userbase of Ableton Live or Logic, it'd be a different story. But this product area just too saturated to move forward in any commercial way.

So after much thinking and talking with others, I think I'm going to move to another area of audio and try a product in a different space. It's back to the drawing board and trying to determine where exactly there are holes in this wild, wonderful world of music creation, and see if there's a product that could solve it.

Happy to still talk about what a cool Reason controller could do! I just won't be continuing on building it right now.
You know, as I got to the end of this post, I started to feel so sad. This thread is literally the reason I joined ReasonTalk.

But, I'm just too damn impressed by you to feel sad! To have the courage to honestly assess what you saw at a major industry show, to admit that the ebb and flow of the industry doesn't seem to match up with this goal that you've had for so long, and then on top of that to have the resilience and optimism to be willing to try something else--you're a model for how to react and adapt to difficulty.

I'll miss the dedicated SSL-style controller idea, but there's a world of opportunity here.

One thing I thought about reading the rest of your post: you mentioned how crazy UA must be for trying to introduce a new DAW in the year 2020. Maybe, but maybe not. LUNA seems like what a lot of Reason users want the SSL mixer to be. I've seen so many discussions here on RT about whether the SSL should be a modeling or color-inducing part of the DAW, rather than just a particular way of working. Lots of folks have suggested having different versions of the mixer available within the DAW (for example, having Clean, American, and British modes, or something like that). Others have responded that we have innumerable coloring plugins, so a modeled mixer doesn't make sense--the mixer should be colorless and purely functional.

But without knowing how much of the "analog" part of LUNA users will be able to switch off, it seems like UA are fearlessly marketing that aspect of it. That makes sense to me--why else release just another DAW in 2020? And it sits well within UA's portfolio. Analog modeling is what they're about.

I'm also thinking about your comment about how popular the integrated hardware/software products seem to be at the moment. I thought immediately about McDSP's APB-16, and the combination of the sound and soul of hardware with the convenience of plugins.

To distill all this musing into a single idea: I think there might be a different angle available for your controller idea. What if your mixer were both a physical controller but also its own plugin? What if you modeled different preamps, EQ, compression, and summing, and allowed users to mix and match them as well as simply control their software? If it were priced not unlike other controllers, it would be an attractive option to those $100k consoles you mentioned (especially if it were also an interface).

Somebody correct me if this already exists.

Whatever you come up with, I'm sure it will be great!

User avatar
wendylou
Posts: 279
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Saint Joseph, MO

Post 03 Mar 2020

Well, darn. Guess we’ll all have to save up for the new analog SSL Origin Console with DAW integration, s modern update to the 4000. Only $49,995.00!



https://youtu.be/sEim4nhCPck
:PUF_balance: http://www.galxygirl.com -- :reason: user since 2002

DJMaytag
Posts: 316
Joined: 17 Jun 2015
Location: Madison, WI

Post 04 Mar 2020

Has anyone seen the work on the codecs/map for Behringer's X-Touch that Nocturn789 is doing? It's early, but the amount of control available is pretty neat. No, it's not a 1:1 strip, but everything seems to be available so far!

viewtopic.php?p=490006#p490006

delineation
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 28 Mar 2020

I've got this Icon Qcon ProG2. It fares well. It's like anything other DAW...you have to get used to it, assign some things to it, but over all with Reason I'd say it's fine. I think the dream of having a Reason studio irl is worth pursuing. I would recommend cross compatibility considering Reason is now a VST as well. As long as it's plug and play, and looks the shit, people will love it. (the Reason SSL) The fun factor using a DAW that looks like the Reason SSL, and behaves like the Reason SSL would be almost enough as a DAW Controller alone.. Lets face it. Studios aren't nearly what they where 12 years ago, or even 5 years ago, having the aesthetic is part of the experience. One of the great parts of reason is that aesthetic. Ok... Think about being a kid and always seeing Transformers or Mickey Mouse on tv, then you get the toy.... BLISS! Whether it's a $98K console or a $500 if you love it at the end of the day, the tools of your labor regardless of craft, should feel like amazing "toys" and it's all worth it. The elegance of having a needle bouncing on a DAW would be so nice these days. I miss looking a the needles on my dad's old Fischer and Marantz receivers.

déerr
Posts: 1
Joined: 09 Apr 2020

Post 09 Apr 2020

Hi,

I just tied to use the Behringer BCR just for the SSL Mixer. That works fine with the Audio Track but as soon as I use a Synth or RE/VST the asssigned Map for that Instrument is used or the BCR has no function at all. I tried to erase all the devices and left just the SSL in the BCR2000.remotemap but that made no difference. Locking/unlocking the BCR form the main outbus bus has not worked. Any ideas of how to get the BCR just and only controlling the SSL?

Cheers

User avatar
mcatalao
Posts: 1475
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 14 Sep 2020

déerr wrote:
09 Apr 2020
Hi,

I just tied to use the Behringer BCR just for the SSL Mixer. That works fine with the Audio Track but as soon as I use a Synth or RE/VST the asssigned Map for that Instrument is used or the BCR has no function at all. I tried to erase all the devices and left just the SSL in the BCR2000.remotemap but that made no difference. Locking/unlocking the BCR form the main outbus bus has not worked. Any ideas of how to get the BCR just and only controlling the SSL?

Cheers
There are different things you can do about it. There's a reason user here in the forum that has a huge BCR2000 remote file, with pretty much everything that reason has:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7495994&hilit=bcr2000

Second you can use another user's remote web builder here (i was doing a windows forms one myself but stopped the project because of work and time issues. TBH i prefer to work with my Windows forms version, but this one was working ok):
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7517456

Also, you can learn to create the remote maps yourself, wich is a good tool for one who has such a great controller as the BCR2000!

Cheers,
MC

User avatar
gullum
Posts: 922
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Faroe Islands

Post 14 Sep 2020

the closest I think we can get to an SSL controller is using and Makie, icon qcon or behringer xtouch with the softube console 1

I have the Icon combination the icon controllers control all faders solo mute loop click while the Consol 1 takes care of comp gate eq send master I hardly ever use the mouse for anything SSL now
IMG_7506.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
mcatalao
Posts: 1475
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 14 Sep 2020

gullum wrote:
14 Sep 2020
the closest I think we can get to an SSL controller is using and Makie, icon qcon or behringer xtouch with the softube console 1

I have the Icon combination the icon controllers control all faders solo mute loop click while the Consol 1 takes care of comp gate eq send master I hardly ever use the mouse for anything SSL now
IMG_7506.JPG
Yep. Or the same with 3 BCF2000 and a BCR2000!
(i dig the channel strips though...)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

delineation
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 05 Oct 2020

gullum wrote:
14 Sep 2020
the closest I think we can get to an SSL controller is using and Makie, icon qcon or behringer xtouch with the softube console 1

I have the Icon combination the icon controllers control all faders solo mute loop click while the Consol 1 takes care of comp gate eq send master I hardly ever use the mouse for anything SSL now
IMG_7506.JPG
This is great! I also have a Qcon pro g2. Do you have a template file you could send me? I'd like to see how others set it up.

User avatar
turbopage
Posts: 72
Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Location: Milano

Post 07 Oct 2020

Music Will Save Us

delineation
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 07 Oct 2020

Thanks! I'll try it out tonight and report on its use with the Icon after I've had a proper amount of time with it.

User avatar
kuhliloach
Posts: 822
Joined: 09 Dec 2015

Post 07 Oct 2020

It is my personal belief that the solution to this and a lot more is simply one big knob.

delineation
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 08 Oct 2020

So.. here's what's going on with the Jaexx thing.. His instructions are to straight up replace the Remote folder with his own Remote folder which will replace ALL of the other files in the Remote folder (491) with just his 2.... I made a copy of the original Remote folder just in case and sure enough when I did this, the option for Mackie no longer existed within Reason's control surface selection. He even specifically says to look for Mackie, and his Folders are infact named MAckie. Good thing I saved the original Remote folder. literally nothing in his installation instructions makes sense. Why replace (ie. drag new folder, drop said folder, replace) ALL my Remote files just for the Jaexx when I need those for my other devices, and why when I tried even to just replace the Mackie Luna and Mackie Remote Maps only did nothing show up? I'll try doing a copy and paste of the TXT alone within the already existing file after deleting the original TXT and see what that brings. Not sure why this is the result. any insight would be cool. All I'm really looking for is a TXT file with edits to the original MCU that better suit the Icon if anybody has one they can google drive or something.

User avatar
pedrocaetanos
Posts: 251
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: LX Portugal

Post 09 Oct 2020

kuhliloach wrote:
07 Oct 2020
It is my personal belief that the solution to this and a lot more is simply one big knob.
https://www.nobcontrol.com/
;)

Yes, I have it and it works great.
Handles knobs and faders, both vertical and horizontal.
Navigation is made with mouse.
:thumbs_up:
Based on a true story. No Musical Instruments Were Harmed in the Making of This Forum Post. | :arrow: SoundCloud set | :reason: :record: :recycle: :reload: :refillpacker: :refill: :re: :ignition: :PUF_figure:

tanni
Posts: 149
Joined: 19 Jul 2015

Post 09 Oct 2020

pedrocaetanos wrote:
09 Oct 2020
kuhliloach wrote:
07 Oct 2020
It is my personal belief that the solution to this and a lot more is simply one big knob.
https://www.nobcontrol.com/
;)

Yes, I have it and it works great.
Handles knobs and faders, both vertical and horizontal.
Navigation is made with mouse.
:thumbs_up:

Oh, please could you tell more about that ? Are you on Windows 10 ? Is this plug and play, or a software to install ...is the function on every knob or fader in Reason useable ? Thats exactly what Im searching for...

User avatar
mcatalao
Posts: 1475
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Oct 2020

It's not the first, mine runs since 2011 when record came out (first with 16 channels, then later with 24)
:)

Oh well.

PS.: Even mine wasn't the first 24 channel! The tascam US-2400 was an amazing surface that unfortunately was discontinued too early! 24 silent touch sensitive faders and infinite encoders/knobs on a single package! I had the opportunity to grab one these days but was a little afraid that it had some problems, and it is a legacy (very old) device! It was a mamoth, costing aroud 1300 eur just for controlling the daw, and not every studio would think about getting it! Amazing device.
Image
Last edited by mcatalao on 09 Oct 2020, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
mcatalao
Posts: 1475
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Oct 2020

delineation wrote:
08 Oct 2020
So.. here's what's going on with the Jaexx thing.. His instructions are to straight up replace the Remote folder with his own Remote folder which will replace ALL of the other files in the Remote folder (491) with just his 2.... I made a copy of the original Remote folder just in case and sure enough when I did this, the option for Mackie no longer existed within Reason's control surface selection. He even specifically says to look for Mackie, and his Folders are infact named MAckie. Good thing I saved the original Remote folder. literally nothing in his installation instructions makes sense. Why replace (ie. drag new folder, drop said folder, replace) ALL my Remote files just for the Jaexx when I need those for my other devices, and why when I tried even to just replace the Mackie Luna and Mackie Remote Maps only did nothing show up? I'll try doing a copy and paste of the TXT alone within the already existing file after deleting the original TXT and see what that brings. Not sure why this is the result. any insight would be cool. All I'm really looking for is a TXT file with edits to the original MCU that better suit the Icon if anybody has one they can google drive or something.
Don't do that. You should only replace the Mackie remote folder. If you have another set of devices that you altered control you end up fraking that up. You don't even have to copy the folder just the remote files he edited on both sides (he probably tweaked lua files too, so you have to copy those too.). But ONLY the mackie content ones!!!

delineation
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 May 2019

Post 09 Oct 2020

mcatalao wrote:
09 Oct 2020
delineation wrote:
08 Oct 2020
So.. here's what's going on with the Jaexx thing.. His instructions are to straight up replace the Remote folder with his own Remote folder which will replace ALL of the other files in the Remote folder (491) with just his 2.... I made a copy of the original Remote folder just in case and sure enough when I did this, the option for Mackie no longer existed within Reason's control surface selection. He even specifically says to look for Mackie, and his Folders are infact named MAckie. Good thing I saved the original Remote folder. literally nothing in his installation instructions makes sense. Why replace (ie. drag new folder, drop said folder, replace) ALL my Remote files just for the Jaexx when I need those for my other devices, and why when I tried even to just replace the Mackie Luna and Mackie Remote Maps only did nothing show up? I'll try doing a copy and paste of the TXT alone within the already existing file after deleting the original TXT and see what that brings. Not sure why this is the result. any insight would be cool. All I'm really looking for is a TXT file with edits to the original MCU that better suit the Icon if anybody has one they can google drive or something.
Don't do that. You should only replace the Mackie remote folder. If you have another set of devices that you altered control you end up fraking that up. You don't even have to copy the folder just the remote files he edited on both sides (he probably tweaked luna files too, so you have to copy those too.). But ONLY the mackie content ones!!!
I did all of what you mentioned the night I originally posted. I'm scratching my head about this. I made copies of the original Mackie files and put them on my desktop then replaced them with both the Luna and Remote files. Nothing.. Mackie failed to show up in any selection menu after substituting them with the Jaexx files. when I replaced the original Mackie files back in the Remote folder, my Qcon surface was once again recognized, and Mackie was again an option to choose as a manufacturer in the drop down menu. Reason asked for permission for changes each time I went through this. When looking at my control surfaces that had already been set up, next to the where the Mackie Control icon usually was (where the new Jaexx should now be & now no manufacturer icon was shown) I would get the little red (!) next to it with error codes attached while the Qcon was on and correctly connected. This would happen even after a complete cut, copy and paste replacing the Mackie txt with the Jaexx txt into the Mackie files as they where. I was never able to "Add Manually" using Mackie. It simply was not there to choose. I'm stumped. I'm using Reason 10.4.1d4 (build 10,700) (stable channel) OS 10.13.6 but I wouldn't think that shouldn't matter if all we are talking about are txt files essentially.. I tried his 8 channel version and his "trinity" version and same results.

User avatar
kuhliloach
Posts: 822
Joined: 09 Dec 2015

Post 10 Oct 2020

Audient's knob:

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], ShelLuser and 3 guests