Reason SSL Mixer Hardware Controller

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selig
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Post 24 Aug 2017

amcjen wrote:
selig wrote: Another option I didn't mockup is a meter bridge like the original SSL - but you can put a monitor closer to the controller if there's no meter bridge, so maybe best for it to be an option anyway. So many ideas, so little time ;)
Hmm, I really like meter bridges, but that's because I've never had meters at the fader before like Reason does. Seems kinda nice to have them there instead.

Interesting to consider the various efforts to stick closely to the Reason layout vs straying a bit for real-world use (like putting the channel name above the fader, not below!)
IMO it's important to look at hardware ergonomics vs software UX. In the case of the channel names, with hardware you typically rest your hands on the arm rest/faders while listening/making mix decisions, which would obscure the channel names. But with software, you rest your hands on the keyboard/mouse thus allowing flexibility in channel name placement.

See if you can find any hardware controller that puts the channel names BELOW the faders! ;)

That's also a reason meters don't typically appear beside faders, and show up on meter bridges instead. Also consider with hardware the entire channel strip is always visible (obviously!), but with software, not necessarily. And with somewhat limited vertical UI space, it makes sense to move meters down to where they will always be visible without adding unnecessary 'height' to the UI.

Other considerations for hybrid hardware/software UIs: you won't have tool tips with hardware, so ideally the channel strip will do double duty, displaying the actual value of any knob/control when adjusted. Touch screens can be useful too: imagine how to change channel order with hardware? With a touch strip above the fader you could simply drag channels to different positions/orders. This "hybrid" approach is why you see modifier keys on controllers like the ICON for Pro Tools, as having option/command/shift available on the controller allows many commands to be duplicated from software (such as parameter reset to default) not otherwise possible - and is why touch knobs are handy (even when not motorized). Same for having a save button that lights up when you make any changes (to remind you to save), and an Undo/Redo button that similarly lights up when anything can be 'undone'. Consider adding a numeric key pad and provide space for a track pad/mouse on the control surface as well - can be quicker to use these than to move away fom the controller to the keyboard mouse. Your main keyboard can reside in a pull out tray below the controller.

The stated goal is to NOT have to look at the mixer screen, right? A well designed controller will allow you to use the computer monitor strictly for seq/rack view.


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geremix
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Post 24 Aug 2017

This is the best thing I've read in the last years!!

I really love your idea and want to buy the thing right now!! Even if I have to sell my car!

Maybe you can make it modular. Not only blocks of 8 or 10 faders that join together and turn into one bigger device, but the EQ's and compressors too, as individual devices that can join together.

Another idea to make the thing more affordable can be to make a central section where you have one set for EQ, one compressor, sends, etc, and you assign that to the specific channel via a SELECT button, like most digital mixers do...

I mix every day in that kind of way with a combination of a Mackie control + extender and a BCR2000 with a custom remote mapping.

Image

Image

After I did those pictures I changed the extender far to the right and took the BCR to the middle right above my mini keyboard controller and my computer keyboard.

I like to have the controls for all the channel strip right in front of me, and right in between the speakers, so I never move from the sweet spot. The only thing with this setting is that I have to select the channel I want to work by mouse. Then I can move up and down with the custom channel select buttons...

Well... I'll be waiting for this dream to become a reality!


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geremix
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Post 24 Aug 2017

I'm about to cry... I WANT THAT


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Chris_ocon
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Post 24 Aug 2017

This keeps sounding better and better! I keep going back and forth on which I like more - the modular 'digital board' setup with a central channel strip or having all controls on each channel like the ssl. I'm sure the central control would help on cost but there's just something really appealing of having it all there at your fingertips like an analog board...I think I'm leaning towards that original idea. Selig's points about the considerations for hybrid hardware are all really great as well and are pretty crucial IMO.

I'm not too sure of the details on how they work but it almost seems once you make the first prototype and get a general price you could maybe make a Kickstarter for it as a way to sell them? I think you could limit how many you wanted to make, and people can pay through the site before you even made them so you don't have to come up with money for materials but it's a third party so the buyer is protected? Again, not totally positive on that but maybe something to look into. Or are you leaning more towards a build your own?

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amcjen
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Post 25 Aug 2017

Chris_ocon wrote:This keeps sounding better and better! I keep going back and forth on which I like more - the modular 'digital board' setup with a central channel strip or having all controls on each channel like the ssl. I'm sure the central control would help on cost but there's just something really appealing of having it all there at your fingertips like an analog board...I think I'm leaning towards that original idea. Selig's points about the considerations for hybrid hardware are all really great as well and are pretty crucial IMO.
It's funny you say this, because I was having the same exact thought today. I spent about an hour on my lunch looking at pictures of Icons, Control24s, DM4800s, DMX-100s and the like, seeing how they all laid out their center channel controls. It's definitely a cheaper way to go, and it's true that it sits right at the center of the sweet spot for mixing, so you don't do as much leaning and tweaking.

But I fell back into the same spot as you--slightly leaning towards a full channel strip per channel. It's a TON more knobs (and thus cost), but there's just something about it. Maybe it's that I've never mixed on an SSL before and I'm idealizing the setup? Are all modern boards moving to a robust center channelstrip control because it's better or because it's cheaper?

One startling thing I discovered yesterday when back-of-napkin'ing physical sizes (once Selig shared the measurements) and using knobs the size of the actual SSL for scale (~11.5mm or so), a full Reason channelstrip in real life would be around 42" deep! That's definitely in the area of dedicated or custom desks. (Or maybe would fit on one of the deeper IKEA desks.)

Either way, it's a tall controller if we go what I'll call the all-knobs route, and would look kinda silly only 8 channels wide. But a 16 or 24 with a master section could be really nice.

Chris_ocon wrote:I'm not too sure of the details on how they work but it almost seems once you make the first prototype and get a general price you could maybe make a Kickstarter for it as a way to sell them? I think you could limit how many you wanted to make, and people can pay through the site before you even made them so you don't have to come up with money for materials but it's a third party so the buyer is protected? Again, not totally positive on that but maybe something to look into. Or are you leaning more towards a build your own?
I'm familiar with crowdfunding, as I launched a successful campaign for a hardware device about five years ago on Indiegogo. Certainly not a bad idea, and is probably the best way to go to gauge interest in making larger runs of them for more people who may want them. I personally like building lots of things sold as kits from Indiegogo, Sparkfun, and BOYC--but I realize it's not for everyone.

It's interesting too, because a bulk of the work of this controller is getting the controls from channelstrip to computer Rewire and computer Rewire to channelstrip. I suspect that the majority of the complexity and effort will be in this area. And once it's figured out, it's pretty easy to make either a center channelstrip version or an all-knobs version--it will use the same underlying firmware and MCU. Center channelstrip would probably have rotary encoders, but outside that, same thing. With crowdfunding both could be offered as different tiers and made if enough order requests were received.

I will say this right now though. It irks me when hardware has required firmware that companies cease to support, and thereby render the hardware useless when they end-of-life it even though the hardware works fine (looking at you Tascam). Regardless of whether or not this stays a kit or becomes an end-product, I do not want to do that here, and will plan on making the firmware source code available publicly. That way regardless of the future of the product, the firmware can continue to be updated alongside future Reason upgrades, and can be compiled/modified by the community.

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selig
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Post 25 Aug 2017

OK, a few comments about the difference between the center channel and the individual channel approach, from experience working on both.

Starting with a question: how many channels does the Reason SSL have? Trick question, sorry about that! But it proves a point - you cannot easily have a one-to-one relation in every case to the hardware and the software unless you have at least as many hardware channels as the MOST channels you would have in a Reason song.

Individual Channel Controls:
So if you have 48 channels on your largest song, you will need 48 channels in the hardware version. Because if not, you will be scrolling/banking the hardware channels - and then you do NOT have a one-to-one relationship. OK, so let's say half of that, 24 channels, what I work with on the ICON back at the 'big' studio. You are STILL scrolling on many projects. More importantly, you have increased the cost of the controller by almost 24 TIMES!!!

You go from $1-2000 to $24-48,000 for the hardware. Or $8-16,000 for just 8 channels. Who here has a budget for that, and that's assuming you can get the costs down to the $1-2k range per channel when ramping up production. You also increase size, weight, power consumption (heat), etc. This is why you do not see this being done by even the 'big guys'…

One more thing - with a big console, you DO move around A LOT. The ONLY benefit is that the kick is ALWAYS in the same place, the vocal is ALWAYS in the same place. The problems are that you can accidentally grab the wrong channel, you can't see all meters at a glance, etc…

Center Controls
Comparing to a center channel approach, which I've worked on and is not as much of a compromise as one would expect: You stay in the sweet spot - your hands can stay in the same area as you EQ across ALL channels in your mix very quickly. The channels can be smaller, so you can see more information at once, etc.

BUT, the biggest issue for me is that you can spend MORE $$$ on high quality controls for that center channel, make it bigger/more visible, use better LED rings with more resolution, use touch sensitive knobs (and buttons for that matter), better quality color touch displays, etc. You won't have room for LED rings on the "individual" approach unless you make each channel almost twice as big on both axis!!!

To make up for the missing channel controls, you can now afford to use an OLED or LCD meter bridge to show all the missing information on each channel, saving space/cost on the fader (by not adding a meter there) and adding overall functionality.

In other words, I'd rather live in a kick-ass and solidly built smaller home with all the cool features, than in a bigger house with a room for every purpose but will higher cost (or lower quality), more maintenance/cost, more time to get stuff done as you move from room to room, less $$ to spend on the property, etc.

Hopefully I'm making sense, and maybe in the end there can be a version for those with the $$ and a smaller version for those with less $$?? You can start with a quick survey on how much each user would pay for this product: $1-2k, $10-12k, or $20-24k? I would pay in the $10k range for a WELL designed/built product at the MOST (if it was exactly what I needed), maybe a little more if I could finance it (unlikely…). What about the rest of you who have expressed interest? I know this only applies to making a commercial product, not a DIY project, but it's an interesting question non the less IMO.


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FlowerSoldier
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Post 25 Aug 2017

I could see dropping $1500 on a Center Channel system like Selig described. I've also thought it would be cool if Propellerhead offered a tablet app that could control the SSL....why is that not a thing already?

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EnochLight
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Post 25 Aug 2017

1 Mackie MCU Control + 1 XT Pro extender costs almost $1850 USD and doesn't even fully support Reason, so if it's in that ballpark but offers more features + Remote support, I'd say it would be a hit...
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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geremix
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Post 25 Aug 2017

I'm with Selig in the center channel aproach. If it's build to last I would pay in the range of 3.000 for 12 channels (why it has to be 8?) and the main section.


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Chris_ocon
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Post 25 Aug 2017

Okay I must say - I just finished watching The Defiant Ones (on HBO, about Jimmy Levine, Dr.Dre and Interscope records) and have all the beautiful multi
-million dollar studios with huge analog boards on the brain. But Selig you're totally right and, (owning a construction company that builds houses) your analogy hit 'home'.

I spent some more time looking at those layouts Selig did and it makes a lot of sense. If this does end up being semi modular or customizable I would opt for 16 tracks minimum, preferably 24. I'm not sure what a realistic price for this is but I'm definitely willing to pay $2k-$3k if that's where this lands and upwards of $5k if that's what it takes to get everything perfect. I vote for higher quality all day


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Delora Software
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Post 26 Aug 2017

FlowerSoldier wrote:
25 Aug 2017
I could see dropping $1500 on a Center Channel system like Selig described. I've also thought it would be cool if Propellerhead offered a tablet app that could control the SSL....why is that not a thing already?
You should look into our iOS app, rsTouch Pro. It offers full multi-touch control of the SSL, eight channels at a time, and control over the master section (including monitoring). It also has full transport control with five programmable "locate" buttons, and a "jog strip" for scrubbing. There is also integrated support for Reason's devices plus many REs. http://www.delora.com/products/rstouch/
Doug

Douglas Kraul
Delora Software
http://www.delora.com
Developer of rsTouch Pro for Reason and rsRemote for Reason

For the latest news on rsTouch and rsRemote follow us https://twitter.com/DeloraSoftware

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selig
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Post 26 Aug 2017

Bear with me as I explore another approach that could be silly - or could be useful!
This sother approach, would require video hardware (and would likely be expensive), so consider that aspect…

This approach would use the center channel approach (for doing your actual channel work), and a video style display for the full channel data above each physical fader.

So as far as hardware, besides the center section you would have only faders and mute/solos - the controls you probably use the most.

Above the fader section you would have only one big display for every 8 channels (or so) - but FULL displays of the channels, showing every control exactly as it appears in Reason.

Why? Because one of the biggest benefits of the LFC (large format console) is the ability to SEE all the data at once. Making changes means moving out of the sweet spot and possibly grabbing the wrong control etc. But being able to look across the console and see the 'big picture' is valuable.

Touching a fader would make that channel 'active' on the center section, so moving around would be quick and intuitive I would think/hope.

Or maybe this is a silly way of thinking for solving the hybrid hardware/software dilemma?


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stp2015
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Post 26 Aug 2017

This is slightly off-topic, but then again it is also closely related.

Have you guys seen the new x-touch extender by Behringer?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XTouchEXT

It has scribble strip displays and a a lot of buttons with visual feedback. With a good codec, I would think that this could be a great interface for the SSL mixer, especially because it has displays that can tell you what parameters you are working on at the moment etc.

Of course, I do not want to discourage the real thing you guys are hopefully building, but I thought some of you might be interested in this one as well.

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amcjen
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Post 26 Aug 2017

Delora Software wrote:
FlowerSoldier wrote:
25 Aug 2017
I could see dropping $1500 on a Center Channel system like Selig described. I've also thought it would be cool if Propellerhead offered a tablet app that could control the SSL....why is that not a thing already?
You should look into our iOS app, rsTouch Pro. It offers full multi-touch control of the SSL, eight channels at a time, and control over the master section (including monitoring). It also has full transport control with five programmable "locate" buttons, and a "jog strip" for scrubbing. There is also integrated support for Reason's devices plus many REs. http://www.delora.com/products/rstouch/
I purchased rsTouch Pro! I like it, you all did a great job.

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amcjen
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Post 26 Aug 2017

selig wrote:Bear with me as I explore another approach that could be silly - or could be useful!
This sother approach, would require video hardware (and would likely be expensive), so consider that aspect…

This approach would use the center channel approach (for doing your actual channel work), and a video style display for the full channel data above each physical fader.

So as far as hardware, besides the center section you would have only faders and mute/solos - the controls you probably use the most.

Above the fader section you would have only one big display for every 8 channels (or so) - but FULL displays of the channels, showing every control exactly as it appears in Reason.

Why? Because one of the biggest benefits of the LFC (large format console) is the ability to SEE all the data at once. Making changes means moving out of the sweet spot and possibly grabbing the wrong control etc. But being able to look across the console and see the 'big picture' is valuable.

Touching a fader would make that channel 'active' on the center section, so moving around would be quick and intuitive I would think/hope.

Or maybe this is a silly way of thinking for solving the hybrid hardware/software dilemma?


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This is a compelling idea, I think there might be something here. Although you'll inevitably have the same issue as before, of bank skipping for having more reason channels than real channel faders. I think this will be the case in every possible setup except for the all channelstrips mode.

So, where this might be controversial is, for me. the number of tracks is getting silly in some mixes IMO. 100+ tracks seems...I dunno, egregious? I often find myself tapping out at 24 max, maaaaybe 32 if I include lots of aux returns for FX. And for me, it's a constraint that I set upon myself for a creative boundary. I mean, Jack White records to 8 track 2" tape apparently.

But seriously, who am I to say how many tracks other people should have? I suppose on large format mixing you get what you get--64 or 96 for the well-equipped studios?

Back to the thought Selig had--if a real-world Reason SSL mixer comes in around 40" deep, I wonder how big the device screen would need to be to still be able to see everything, and not be too big where you could just go with actual knobs instead?

Feels like some actual size mockups would be really helpful to just lay down on a table and see how it'd work?

Finally the weekend and planning on getting some mockups made (though also need to pack for Burning Man next week, so busy weekend)!

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geremix
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Post 26 Aug 2017

Delora Software wrote: You should look into our iOS app, rsTouch Pro. It offers full multi-touch control of the SSL, eight channels at a time, and control over the master section (including monitoring). It also has full transport control with five programmable "locate" buttons, and a "jog strip" for scrubbing. There is also integrated support for Reason's devices plus many REs. http://www.delora.com/products/rstouch/
I'm also a pro user of this. Great job Delora!
You have to make an update for the big iPad Pro with more channels and bigger channel strip at once!!



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Delora Software
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Post 26 Aug 2017

geremix wrote:
26 Aug 2017
Delora Software wrote: You should look into our iOS app, rsTouch Pro. It offers full multi-touch control of the SSL, eight channels at a time, and control over the master section (including monitoring). It also has full transport control with five programmable "locate" buttons, and a "jog strip" for scrubbing. There is also integrated support for Reason's devices plus many REs. http://www.delora.com/products/rstouch/
I'm also a pro user of this. Great job Delora!
You have to make an update for the big iPad Pro with more channels and bigger channel strip at once!!
Unique features for the iPad Pro are something we are evaluating. However, there are lot challenges (and a ton of work) triggered by what may seem to be a simple improvement. No question though that it would be cool.

BTW, thanks for the rsTouch shout-outs and positive comments here. I really appreciate it!
Doug

Douglas Kraul
Delora Software
http://www.delora.com
Developer of rsTouch Pro for Reason and rsRemote for Reason

For the latest news on rsTouch and rsRemote follow us https://twitter.com/DeloraSoftware

Sorped
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Post 26 Aug 2017

Very interesting project! I'd absolutely love something like Selig's Mission Control (The middle one!) with an emphasis on adding an easy-to-use selection overview of all tracks available (maybe something small touchscreen that can display colours and names of tracks).
I guess the same approach could be used to make an addon module, a sort of generic, easily-programmable controller for all things rack-related, with so many knobs, some buttons and maybe a couple of faders, that could be mapped to whatever functions you may like.

Oh, and Delora Software, I join the choir of praise, awesome app!
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amcjen
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Post 27 Aug 2017

I finally had a day off today (work has been bananas), so I sat down and printed out actual-size sections of the Reason SSL mixer. AAAND, I took some pics, so this is more show and tell.

I find that I can't really get the gist of a product idea unless I lay it out on a table and actually see it in person. It helps me see the sizing of things, are buttons too big/small, is there enough space, etc.

So first thing I did was to lay out a channelstrip, in all of it's glory:

Image

Dear god, it's a full 44" long, and that's before I made the fader the full 100mm (the Reason one is smaller, something like 60mm).

Here I am sitting and trying to reach up there:
Image

And the furthest reach I can muster:
Image

And this is the point at which I realize that Selig is right--this thing is just monstrous if you want it all. I just don't think I'd even be able to work using it. It's huge.

So, I take out the Inserts (even though I rely heavily on them for how I like to mix), just to see if it's any better:

Image

Nope, not any better--still at ~1 meter in depth.

I then start to play around with what a center channelstrip could look like. This is much better, 12" x 10" for the full channelstrip:

Image

Move them around like legos, re-design a few things in Photoshop to make the fit better, and it's coming together nicely:

Image

Now I start trying to make it all really fit--including various buttons needed (like automation arm, sequencer, and rack). I also start replacing some of the display areas with the black display strips I plan to use for the prototype:

Image

Add the transport bar:

Image

And now what happens if we start adding the master section? Well, for one, the master stuff is BIG, like too big. Look at the size of the mixbus compressor!:

Image

And if you think THAT's big, take a look at the FX sends and returns. (I combined them here to try to get them more compact, to little avail). I also added the Panorama here, just to see if it would fit:

Image

Even if I switch things around, it's no go. So so big:

Image

So I re-lay out the Master FX Send/Return to be much smaller, and to use the same black displays I plan on using. I get it close, but couldn't get it as short as the mixbus compressor. I also try moving some of the oft-used buttons to the side, to get them easy access:

Image

Now the fun part--start trying out the layout sizing of the parts I bought to prototype this thing:

Image

The LED bargraph looks to be a perfect size:

Image

The OLED display is a bit small, but maybe there are larger ones. Actually, yes, I'm almost positive there are larger ones. I want this section to be able to display both the channel name and the output group (if any). This is a little too short for that:

Image

The small OLEDs look to be a great size/fit for showing preset names (and here in the input section, will show the order of the inserts/dynamics/eq, as in the software mixer, but much more compact):

Image

The double-size OLED looks like a pretty good fit too. This one will show the insert preset name and the delay compensation (if/when Propellerheads starts offering that info as part of the Remote protocol. Gotta plan ahead!):

Image

And finally, the ALPS flying fader. It's a little long, as I had underestimated the additional flange spacing it needs for its motor. Should be okay though, if it gets moved down a bit during final layout. Also, the pan rotary encoder is a pretty good size, but I don't have the LED ring sourced yet, still looking for one:

Image

So, the ideation is coming along really nicely! A lot of everyone's ideas here in this thread were bouncing around in my head while I was laying it out, and I think it's starting to coalesce into something I'd really enjoy using (and hopefully you all too!)

Some things I haven't started working on yet design-wise:

- Additional buttons near the transport for things like setting L/R loop points, undo/redo, save, reset automation override, etc.
- The transport, though taken directly from the Reason software, looks incredibly too small IMO. I'm used to the DM3200 one, and it feels much bigger and better, so will need to resize it bigger.
- I haven't made room for rotary encoders with LED rings in the centerchannel yet. I really want to maintain the look of the original hardware (using the original Sifam colored-top knobs hopefully), but need to find some good LED rings that aren't too big.
- Haven't started working on the channelstrips themselves. My best guess, after seeing what's all available in the center channelstrip, is to just include the following (heavily borrowed from Selig's mockups!):
- Fader
- solo/mute/pan
- OLED display for channel name/output bus
- send on/pre backlit buttons for the 8 sends, (but not planning on having "pre" buttons, go to center channelstrip to modify that).
- on/off backlit notifiers for the following sections (similar to the red LED light that lights up next to each section name header in the channelstrip, if it's enabled): Input, Dynamics, EQ, Inserts, Send, Automation Enabled. This should let you get a really good scope of the entire mix, without having all the knobs necessary.
- LED bargraph for levels

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts--is this moving in the direction you all were also thinking?

Also, if you like, I'll post PDFs of the various sections so you all can print them out, cut them out with scissors, and play around with your own ideas for layouts--maybe there's a better one than what I came up with!

- Allison

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geremix
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Post 27 Aug 2017

I love what you're doing!!! Keep going please! Keep going!!

Also I'd love to print the sections and play around, so bring that PDF on!

Thanks so much for this great idea.


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Sorped
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Post 27 Aug 2017

geremix wrote:
27 Aug 2017
I love what you're doing!!! Keep going please! Keep going!!

Also I'd love to print the sections and play around, so bring that PDF on!

Thanks so much for this great idea.


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Same! :thumbs_up:
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aeox
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Post 27 Aug 2017

Image
Random songs/ideas go here:

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Faxxer
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Post 27 Aug 2017

I"m just gonna call it... YOU MAY NOT GO TO BURNING MAN! This project is far far more important. get back to your drafts and planning immediately!

Just kidding!!!

On a serious note though, I just spilled my FIJI water all over myself due to the level of excitement had on this thread.

ok so I have a couple silly ideas.... and I confess I have ZERO knowledge and experience when it comes to this stuff...

Idea 1. Does it HAVE to be full size knobs? Once you get used to it, something small like the Behringer Xenyx X2442USB Mixer knobs are comfortable to use.... (the size of the board is all my point is, not the layout or functionality...that 44" long reach could be alot smaller like suggested, but still be the full channel strip if mini-me'd. just a thought.

Idea 2. Can a flat panel touch screen (computer monitor) be adapted to be the modified mixer screen set in place of the console center? some really special sized monitor or something that can fit everything or is the screen resolution in reason hard coded so that you end up having to treat it just like the mixer is treated in a regular monitor with the mouse? A general software version might be a quick launch idea to fund some of the hardware ideas....and i'm not talking about an ipad sized screen, a PC LARGE screen ....I have no idea if a touch screen would work in this way.

I'm excited to see this play out....I wanna see this thing bring reason up a notch.

ike
:essentials: :adapted: :re: :PUF_take: :refillpacker: :recycle: :rebirth: :reason: :record: :refill: :ignition: :o

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amcjen
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Post 27 Aug 2017

geremix wrote:
27 Aug 2017
I love what you're doing!!! Keep going please! Keep going!!

Also I'd love to print the sections and play around, so bring that PDF on!

Thanks so much for this great idea.
So glad you like it. :D Here is a link to the PDFs to download and have a go yourself. :)

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amcjen
Posts: 202
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

Post 27 Aug 2017

Faxxer wrote:
27 Aug 2017
I"m just gonna call it... YOU MAY NOT GO TO BURNING MAN! This project is far far more important. get back to your drafts and planning immediately!

Just kidding!!!
Haha! I'm pretty exited about this too! But I'd be lying if I said I didn't need to go Burning Man this year. :) But I'll be back in a jiffy and will be back at this project. :)
On a serious note though, I just spilled my FIJI water all over myself due to the level of excitement had on this thread.
So good to hear! I thought I'd be pretty isolated in this ridiculous project--surely nobody else wanted HARDWARE for Reason? I mean, how many people even use Reason, right? I was clearly wrong. :)
ok so I have a couple silly ideas.... and I confess I have ZERO knowledge and experience when it comes to this stuff...

Idea 1. Does it HAVE to be full size knobs? Once you get used to it, something small like the Behringer Xenyx X2442USB Mixer knobs are comfortable to use.... (the size of the board is all my point is, not the layout or functionality...that 44" long reach could be alot smaller like suggested, but still be the full channel strip if mini-me'd. just a thought.
Actually, I don't think this is a silly idea at all. Lots of things can be minified, like made to be something like 75%-80% of the original size. Korg did it with the MS-20 Mini by making it 86% of the original size (and used 1/16" inch headphone jacks instead of 1/4" jacks like the original).

But yeah, it's totally a possibility. Doing back of napkin math here at 1:30a, so bear with me. But if we shrink it to 75% of full-size, it still gets us to 33" deep. Is that usable? I don't know, so I googled what an SSL 4000 comes in as dimension-wise: Mr. Truth states that a 4000 comes in at 48" deep, and an E comes in at 13" for a bank of 8. And for an E the center section is also 13" wide. So for 24 channels you're 52" wide, all in.
Idea 2. Can a flat panel touch screen (computer monitor) be adapted to be the modified mixer screen set in place of the console center? some really special sized monitor or something that can fit everything or is the screen resolution in reason hard coded so that you end up having to treat it just like the mixer is treated in a regular monitor with the mouse? A general software version might be a quick launch idea to fund some of the hardware ideas....and i'm not talking about an ipad sized screen, a PC LARGE screen ....I have no idea if a touch screen would work in this way.
This might be doable, but for me at least, I'm having a hard time finding where to draw the line between displaying the mixer on a screen, vs. actually providing the controls for the mixer as tangible knobs/faders. I can already access the Reason mixer in all its glory via my mouse on a screen. Recall that the goal here is to be able to use Reason without ever opening the mixer window. Get two monitors, one shows your sequencer, the other shows your rack, and the third one--the mixer--is sitting as actual hardware below your monitors. Press "Edit Insert" button on the center channelstrip and the insert devices are brought into focus on the screen. Press "Auto" and the record automation enable red circle turns dark red on the sequencer screen. Then, press "Record" on the transport and record all your mix automation changes.

If we do this right, it will feel so fluid that you won't even have to think about it anymore--you just get to focus on making music.
I'm excited to see this play out....I wanna see this thing bring reason up a notch.
Same same!

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